Very true. The Hawiye clan residing in Mogadishu today are recent immigrants from the interior. The influx of Somali nomads into Mogadishu began during the Colonial period. They are not indigenous to the area.
The diversity of Xamaar
- Thread starter kneeknee
- Start date
Who was Al dimashqi, Ibn Sa’id, and Yaqui Al Hamawi talking about
A council of Arab and Persian families arrived in Mogadishu at different intervals. There were multiple waves of Arab migration into Mogadishu. Pre-Islamic Arabs and Persians founded trading enterprises in Mogadishu and the East African coast. In the seventh century, Islamized Arabs strengthened these trading centers and introduced Islam to Somalia.
It's mentioned in the Sharif Aidarus book that Arabs were the first to reside in Mogadishu, and the colors of the inhabitants of this town are brown. Arabs settled in Mogadishu a long time ago, dating back to one hundred and two BC, and in general, the Arabs entered Mogadishu in about 2055 years. Somali nomads from the desert hinterland are recent immigrants to Mogadishu and the Benadir coast.
Can you expand on your question. What exactly are you referring to?
Ibn Sa’id mentions that Merca was the capital of the Hawiye in 1130. Are you saying Ibn Sa’id was lying?
Who said the name Xamar Jajab was given when it was solely Arabs and persians there? No evidence states that the name was used since centuries ago. Furthermore there weren't any reer samaale's there unless you want us to believe that somehow there were Samaale lineages that inhabited modern day xamar jajab and became extinct. The earliest samaale's were the silcis and they moved into the coast well after Xamar Jajab was abandoned. Those Masaajid don't have the word "Aw" in the inscriptions that mention the masjid name, There's no evidence that says it was always referred to as Aw Mukhtar meanwhile the masjid adjacent to it is known as Shaykh Cumar
Who said Arabs or Persians inhabited entire coast of the horn, secondly we don't need confirmation from ibn battuta or anyone else when the information in our manuscripts are sufficient for us
There weren't no hawiye in Marka at the time, you can't prove it either by naming their neighbourhoods, sub clan names, modern day descendants etc as I've repeated countless times, the hawiyes of marka are known like shukureere and juunji, if you want to unuka leh anything then you can claim their neighbourhoods
Ibn Said Al-Maghribi never stated that Marka was the capital of Hawiye. Ibn Said said, “It‘s people are Muslims, and it is at the feet of the canyon or cliff, which overlooks 50 villages.” Read the full Arabic translation below. The Arabic word هاوية, or haawiyah, means cliff or canyon. The word قاعدة means base or foot. ينيف/تنيف doesn't mean control. It means to overlook or oversee.
"وهي قاعدة الهاوية التي تنيف على ٥٠ قرية"
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VIP
It’s your tribe that is a recent immigrant from the interior. There were Murusade living in Xamar right at the time of Ajuuraan as judges in the courts and they might have been those Habar Ceyno groups or Isxijwaaq- Hilibi. Yes there were Murusade groups that were part of the Banaadiri federation but there were also others that were just plain Murusade. The Banaadiri once had a dual identity whereby they can claim Murusade and Banaadiri. We see this example with the Murusade of Shangaani being the only Somali clan being mentioned specifically by their actual clan name. The 2nd group, were the once that lived on the Banaadir coast but were not part of any federation. They were intermediate having links with their Banaadiri kin as well as the country side Murusade further inland. Then finally you had the 3rd type of Murusade which was from the immediate countryside of Merca, Baraawe & Xamar like the once that settled Dayniile, Hodan etc
The key difference is that the Murusade from the north in Galguduud went by their sub clans name as that’s their ultimate home while the once from the south always go by the collective name “Murusade”. By all means the early Murusade from Banaadir could have been a mix of all types like Ibrahim Sabdi, HabarCeyno, Habar Maxamed with Cabdalla Sabdi propably arriving a little bit later.
To make it clear, Murusade in the south were always of two kinds. One group that migrated as early as the 13th-14th century towards the south when Ajuuraan were in power and the 2nd group that came later with the Hiiraab.
So was Ibn Sa’id lying?
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VIP
murusade left the other karanle migrating away from the upper shabelle river towards the south, our timing in the south had different waves we are recorded among the earliest benadiris of xamarwayn, we also have oral traditions of coming again to the south during the ajuran and portugese times and then also lived with the hiraab and geledi states later on
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VIP
Murusade koonfureed was already living in Lower Shabelle and Xamar since the Ajuran days in varying numbers. While biimaal travelled all the way from tadjoura (djibouti) fighting clans down until they came to Merca we were already in Baraawe fighting the Gallas bordering JL, the Mobleen and Wacdaan in Banadir before moving to Afgooye.
Lmao I knew you’d try that shit this 1848 French translation of Abu Al-Fida quoting Ibn Sa’id writes that it means capital of Hawya.
Ibn Sa’id uses Qa’idah as capital just a few paragraphs earlier in this work when he says Berbera is the capital of the Berbers. Are you know trying to say Berbera is the mountain of the Berbers
techsamatar
I put Books to the Test of Life
Loolllll this is classic wallahi
@HabarSteven12 another forum where you got intellectually Xooged in 8k.
Also banadiris or cadcads aren’t Semitic nor Arabs but Persian and south Asians mixes, even worse Arabised Persians in Middle East are claiming to be Original Arabs
A lot of Yemenis in Somalia received Yemeni passports during the civil war which allowed them to go back to Yemen.
Some stayed and some that left returned to Somalia after Yemeni civil war.
Maadoonte is af Somali with a different dialect. Af maadoonte comes from Maxatiri and is of Cushitic origins. I’m You’ve got to be a troll at this point.
Also, why would Arabs give up their language in which they have immense pride in if they were the majority? Every place in which Arabs invade in which they become the Marjory, they speak only Arabic as we have seen in at least 22 Arabic countries.
You lack logic.
Hardly. where they lived is well documented and it’s the Arabian peninsula. Where ever they moved to, they came as trading migrants.
It’s a dialect and it’s a language of Cushitic origins. Please explain this, why would people not confronted with Somalis take on a language very similar to Af Maxaatir that is of Cushitic origins. If we look at Arab migration, they always tend to keep on to their language, but funnily enough your community took on a Cushitic language.
You can’t answer my questions, so you call it waffling. Answer the question above.
Ibn Battuta is a well known traveler and recorder of places he visited. He’s a lot more well trusted than your manuscripts. If what was written in your manuscripts were indeed factual, it would also be confirmed by outsider Arab traders who would have recognized their Arab brethrens and Persians who are a well known ethnic group, yet Ibn Battuta was confronted with men who didn’t speak Arabic as a first language who were also identical to the people he saw in Northern Somalia.
That is one of the reasons why i can’t take you and @HabarSteven12 seriously.
attash
Amaan Duule
Don't waste your time arguing with these people, there is no point. Their reasoning is circular: they will say "Somalis did not live in Xamar at (insert time period)". You present evidence that they did live in Xamar at said time period, and they will say "this evidence is not valid because Somalis did not live in Xamar at (insert time period)".
They will even deny Ibn Battuta's eyewitness account. What is their excuse for this? Was he hallucinating?
The first contemporary mention of the word Mogadishu was by Yaqut in 1228. He says they are Muslims, distinguished from the nomadic Barbar in the country round about, and termed foreigners; they are not black in color. That passage clearly shows the Arab presence in Mogadishu.
You are misrepresenting what Ibn Battuta said about the people of Mogadishu. Ibn Battuta never explicitly stated the word Somali when describing the inhabitants of Mogadishu. You have reached a premature conclusion based on the misunderstanding of the words Barbara and Maqdishi. The term barbara itself is ambiguous and inconclusive. We don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time. The word Barbara is also used to describe a geographical region as well.
Read the passage below. "When the power of these people became enfeebled, the Barabar (Arabians of the neighboring country) who had come to live among them, (rose and) overpowered them, driving them out."
