The Arab tribes are the real laandheere

mohammdov

Nabadshe
The Omani Arabs he was bragging about in a previous page had to rely on allying with Somalis to curb the influence of Oromos and control Swahilis:

“When most later observers recorded their visits to the Lamu archipelago and district, the powerful Oromo people, who could deal so arrogantly with their visitors, had been subdued and re- duced in number by the steady encroachments and sudden raids of Somali and Masai. This is a development which bears heavily on the history of Lamu district. Until the last third of the nine- teenth century, however, there was no group of people which influenced the political and economic activity of this area more than the Oromo . The Pokomo of the lower Tana River were vulner- able, sedentary cultivators; the Oromo were mobile pastoralists. The nomadic Boni and Sanye, equally mobile, were, if not the slaves of the Oromo, their dependent subordinates. Moreover,
the Swahili-speaking peoples and the Arabs and Asians of the islands and coast were Muslim, while the Oromo in the nineteenth century held to their traditional religion. The spiritual dis- tance and resulting fear and hate between these peoples was a basis for the unsettled state of affairs which prevailed in the Lamu hinterland throughout the nineteenth century”.

“ In the 1840s the Arabs reached an agreement with the Somali residents of Siyu, a move which was instrumental in subduing Bwana Mataka. They also saw the necessity of acquiring the cooperation of Mzee bin Seif, whose influence extended over much of the Bajun population. Mzee bin Seif may have emphasized his ethnic identity in his encounters with the Arabs, who were not completely familiar with Bajun numbers or their split allegiances. They dealt with him very carefully, overlooking such breaches as occurred in the 1870s.
It soon became clear to the Arabs that local power bases were
not stationary and that dissidents were as apt to disrupt Arab
goals through guerrilla warfare on the mainland as through more conventional means on the islands. In their attempts to destroy
the mainland bases of power, the Zanzibaris established themselves
on the mainland, through military garrisons. They forced the Nabahanis to retreat from Kau and later attacked them in the forest. Although they managed to gain control of the Tana-Ozi river system, military expeditions into remote areas proved futile because of the difficulty of fighting in unknown terrain far from the coast.
A more effective strategy, and one which closely followed the pattern established by other groups in the district, was the connection the Arabs formed with the pastoral Darod Somali of the mainland,
an alliance which brought the political affairs of the district to
a climax in the Oromo-Somali war of the late 1860s. In contrast to
the alliances made by Ahmed and Avatula, which overlooked religious diversity in order to achieve their goals, the Arab connection with
the Somalis was strengthened by the two parties’ mutual adherence
to Islam. Undoubtedly, the Zanzibari governors of Lamu used this
tie to its fullest advantage, sometimes stressing this feature
of their ethnicity in contrast to the unbelieving Oromo. One
example of such action was Sud bin Hamed's enforcement of harsh
Islamic law when dealing with the Oromo. The Arabs were also aware that Somali pastoralists were the only means at their disposal for attacking the Oromo, the key to political resistance in the district, who must be punished for aiding the Witu Swahilis. The Zanzibari”



“and the Darod Somalis were natural allies in another sense as well. While some individuals had lived or traded in Lamu district in previous decades, both groups were essentially outsiders, new elements in old conflicts which involved all peoples of the area. The Arabs eventually succeeded in upsetting the balance of power in the district, through the Somali defeat of the Oromo. Unfortunately this disruption of the balance of power also upset the economic benefits which the Zanzibaris hoped to reap.
Nineteenth-century conditions as well as the types of political systems found in Lamu district permitted an unusual degree of mobility in leadership. On the mainland, stateless societies
such as those of the Oromo and pastoral Somali allowed forceful individuals to wield extensive power in practice if not in theory.
Moreover, the social structure and situations of the Boni and watoro invited the direction of an aggressive outside leader.
On the islands, the town governments had histories of sporadic succession crises and family rivalries often leading to violence and disruption. During the nineteenth century, when Arab rule threatened Swahili society and the economic advantages of island- dwellers, loyalties were drawn to strong personages who could help the islanders retain their institutions—on the mainland, if necessary—just as earlier allegiances had been centered on stationary communities. Opportunities existed for individual leaders to gain power over multiethnic amalgams as well as over traditional communal groups and the factions within them”.

You were paying taxes to Sultan Barghash and you say they saw you as an enemy You like to distort history and lie This is in your culture
 
You were paying taxes to Sultan Barghash and you say they saw you as an enemy You like to distort history and lie This is in your culture
Mohammdov come across studies going against his Arab-worship, Somali-hatred driven biased view history; he dismisses it and starts hurling insults.

You’re actuality sick. Stop drinking the brittle Hargeysa water.
 

mohammdov

Nabadshe
Mohammdov come across studies going against his Arab-worship, Somali-hatred driven biased view history; he dismisses it and starts hurling insults.

You’re actuality sick. Stop drinking the brittle Hargeysa water.
Look at the insulting comments that Your cousins used Don't talk to me about respect
 
I am talking about The African Rinderpest Panzooti The Oromo grazed cows and 90% of their livestock died, while the Somalis had camels This is what helped you. The Ogadis and some Oromo tribes were always fighting, and the Ogadis did not achieve such a victory. Rather, the reason was because famine struck the Oromo.
And it was not only Ogaden clans But share it with dagoodi,garre,gaaljecal,
Not why you mentioned Isaaq
but you should know that one of the reasons for the migration of the ogaden was their loss in haro garduur Then Reer Cabdulle crossed shabeele
In the past there was ogaden ciideed I am the one who lives in their land now . If these people are the bravest of Somalis, then I am braver than them because I defeated them and took All their geel And I defeated them at lafruug😂
Even jeer ugaas Ogden abaanduule We killed him in 1850s

The African rinderpest epidemic? That happened in the 1890s, Somalis were long since expanding since the 18th century.
 

mohammdov

Nabadshe
The African rinderpest epidemic? That happened in the 1890s, Somalis were long since expanding since the 18th century.
The rinderpest was in 1884, and the Somali expansion there began in 1877-1880 and ended in 1905-1910.This is the time when rinderpest struck the Oromo you where just lucky you found people dying of hunger and 70% of them died of starvation
The Oromo were not weak people, but they were strong warriors
the Oromo who herded camels like arsi and Ituu and Qallo Why do you think that the Somalis were unable to take even an inch of their land? Because rinderpest did not affect them
 
the Somali expansion there began in 1877-1880 and ended in 1905-1910.
Again, wrong. Somalis have been expanding since the 18th century, the migrations simply peaked in the late 19th century.
The Oromo were not weak people, but they were strong warriors
They aren't weak but they aren't really strong either. They lost to the Ajuran during the gaal madow wars and the only reason why their own expansion was successful to begin with was due to taking advantage of the weakness of Adal and Ethiopia following the Futuh, sort of like how the Arabs did with the Byzantines and Sassanids

Somalis were the strongest warriors in the Horn. Way before even the expansions into the Juba we already had Galbeed which is the size of Germany. The British and other Europeans constantly remarked how fierce Somalis were compared to other Africans. Oromos by comparison weren't really known by anyone as great warriors.
1682487713509.jpg
 

mohammdov

Nabadshe
Again, wrong. Somalis have been expanding since the 18th century, the migrations simply peaked in the late 19th century.
Here I must ask you why you did not expand earlier ?
Most of the lands in which Kenyan Somalis live are what they acquired during the rinderpest period
They aren't weak but they aren't really strong either. They lost to the Ajuran during the gaal madow wars and the only reason why their own expansion was successful to begin with was due to taking advantage of the weakness of Adal and Ethiopia following the Futuh, sort of like how the Arabs did with the Byzantines and Sassanids

Somalis were the strongest warriors in the Horn. Way before even the expansions into the Juba we already had Galbeed which is the size of Germany. The British and other Europeans constantly remarked how fierce Somalis were compared to other Africans. Oromos by comparison weren't really known by anyone as great warriors.
View attachment 315988
There were always wars between Somalis in the south in Jubbaland, but no one could defeat the other Until rinderpest struck the Oromo and the Somalis obtained better weapons
The Oromo who defeated the Egyptians in 1875 They were weaker than the Somalis. This is what you saying
The Oromo would have been more warlike and had more numbers than the Somalis. If colonialism had not come and brought guns and rinderpest, I believe that the entire Horn of Africa would have been theirs.
 

Cartan Boos

Average SSC Patriot
VIP
Well all that was possible bc of islam Making it official language Arabic, if it wasn't for islam dhegecas wouldn't be shit and majority of yhr fighting were done by non dhegecas Muslim
 
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Cartan Boos

Average SSC Patriot
VIP
Why did you wait until the 19th century because you got rifles from the Italians and Omanis
You could not do this in the 11th century like the Arabs
Somalis often hate each other and see each other as enemies. What happened here was a stroke of luck. The Oromo bovine epidemic struck and the Somalis benefited from this. It was not courage or intelligence
The waamo expansion nomads didn't use rifle u illiterate
 

Cartan Boos

Average SSC Patriot
VIP
Somali a young group were destroying everyone who border them, darood alone were chasing masaai in their peak, Kikuyu, and other bantu groups, tsye flying wasn't a big factor in the 19s as it was before that why Somali nomads reached Tanzania and British had to stop them, Somali nomads were only stopped by tse fly
 
why you did not expand earlier ?
Because Kenya and Tanzania during the middle ages was dominated by powerful Swahili and later Omani powers. It was only until colonialism that both were weakened and only tribals remained.
There were always wars between Somalis in the south in Jubbaland
There are very little records of Oromos in Juba before the 19th century and virtually none about Oromos in general before the 16th century. Everything points to the war over Juba being recent, especially since as I already pointed out, the Ajuran prevented Oromos from stepping foot in southern Somalia to begin with and they collapsed in the 18th century.
The Oromo who defeated the Egyptians in 1875
That was an Amhara/Tigrayan victory. None of the commanders were Oromo and Oromia doesn't even border Sudan so its silly to atribute the victory over Egypt to them.
were weaker than the Somalis. This is what you saying
Seeing how there were no Oromo polities comparable to Ajuran, Geledi, Hiraab, Majeerteen, Hobyo and more, yes Oromos were weaker. You are forced to bring up Ethiopia for your argument despite it being a Habesha state.

and had more numbers than the Somalis
So why didn't they? Oromo lands are much more fertile than Somali ones and they mainly practice farming unlike Somalis.
I believe that the entire Horn of Africa would have been theirs
Nonsense. First off, Somalis already had access to guns thanks to the Ottomans, second, there were literally subjugated by the Ethiopians and weren't at all capable of conquering the entire Horn due to their lackluster number, lack of political power and military strength.

Warya, why are you shilling the Oromos so much? They are barely a step above Afars in military history and had always needed to either wait for a power vacuum or live under Amhara rule to get anywhere. The only group in the Horn that have proven time and time again to be able to beat or go toe to toe with Somalis are the Amhara, look at what Menelik did, his armies swept through Galbeed and even reached Beledweyn, that is respectable strength. Oromo langaab did no such thing.
 

Cartan Boos

Average SSC Patriot
VIP
Because Kenya and Tanzania during the middle ages was dominated by powerful Swahili and later Omani powers. It was only until colonialism that both were weakened and only tribals remained.

There are very little records of Oromos in Juba before the 19th century and virtually none about Oromos in general before the 16th century. Everything points to the war over Juba being recent, especially since as I already pointed out, the Ajuran prevented Oromos from stepping foot in southern Somalia to begin with and they collapsed in the 18th century.

That was an Amhara/Tigrayan victory. None of the commanders were Oromo and Oromia doesn't even border Sudan so its silly to atribute the victory over Egypt to them.

Seeing how there were no Oromo polities comparable to Ajuran, Geledi, Hiraab, Majeerteen, Hobyo and more, yes Oromos were weaker. You are forced to bring up Ethiopia for your argument despite it being a Habesha state.


So why didn't they? Oromo lands are much more fertile than Somali ones and they mainly practice farming unlike Somalis.

Nonsense. First off, Somalis already had access to guns thanks to the Ottomans, second, there were literally subjugated by the Ethiopians and weren't at all capable of conquering the entire Horn due to their lackluster number, lack of political power and military strength.

Warya, why are you shilling the Oromos so much? They are barely a step above Afars in military history and had always needed to either wait for a power vacuum or live under Amhara rule to get anywhere. The only group in the Horn that have proven time and time again to be able to beat or go toe to toe with Somalis are the Amhara, look at what Menelik did, his armies swept through Galbeed and even reached Beledweyn, that is respectable strength. Oromo langaab did no such thing.
Somalis were always stronger than omani and Swahili, geledi showed us that when they beheaded dhegecas in their capital for refusing to pay tribute to them, Somali nomad were stoped by tsy fly sxb
 

Cush

Cushite Arab
I've already debunked this, Banu Sulaym, Hilal and the others which accompanied them are all pre islamic tribes over 2,000 years old, Somalis are all from a handful of 1000 year old lineages, Banu Hilal alone is equivelant to 100x Darood and Hawiye, before Islam they were an already well established gigantic tribe, in the 11th century they were being migrated all over North Africa where they were settling and warring tribes, when most Somali clans were in their infancy, stupid logic!

And that map is heavily exagherrated, first of all the whole of Najd is dominated by Banu Tamim, and other tribes, Hejaz Hawazen, Taghlib, Banu Harb etc etc, Hilal and Sulaym are one of the smallest tribes today because of the migrations and have way smaller land

In North Africa they have small pockets, and then their are Amazigh right net to them, plus many many other Arab tribes
 

mohammdov

Nabadshe
Because Kenya and Tanzania during the middle ages was dominated by powerful Swahili and later Omani powers. It was only until colonialism that both were weakened and only tribals remained.

There are very little records of Oromos in Juba before the 19th century and virtually none about Oromos in general before the 16th century. Everything points to the war over Juba being recent, especially since as I already pointed out, the Ajuran prevented Oromos from stepping foot in southern Somalia to begin with and they collapsed in the 18th century.
Oral history says that goobweyne It was given this name because it was the place where the Oromo and Somalis met to reconcile and stop the war 400 years ago, and it was agreed that the south of Juba would be for the Oromo and its north would be for garre
That was an Amhara/Tigrayan victory. None of the commanders were Oromo and Oromia doesn't even border Sudan so its silly to atribute the victory over Egypt to them.
I'm talking about when they arrived in Harar, the Somalis did nothing, the Oromo were the ones who fought and defeated them
Seeing how there were no Oromo polities comparable to Ajuran, Geledi, Hiraab, Majeerteen, Hobyo and more, yes Oromos were weaker. You are forced to bring up Ethiopia for your argument despite it being a Habesha state.


So why didn't they? Oromo lands are much more fertile than Somali ones and they mainly practice farming unlike Somalis.

Nonsense. First off, Somalis already had access to guns thanks to the Ottomans, second, there were literally subjugated by the Ethiopians and weren't at all capable of conquering the entire Horn due to their lackluster number, lack of political power and military strength.
Ras Gobena The commander of the Melek armies was Oromo, and most of the army that Conquer the northern Oromo lands and southern Ethiopia were Oromo
Maybe you're not blind to their history but I'm interested
Limmu-Ennarea It is a kingdom in the north They even had cannons
Warya, why are you shilling the Oromos so much? They are barely a step above Afars in military history and had always needed to either wait for a power vacuum or live under Amhara rule to get anywhere. The only group in the Horn that have proven time and time again to be able to beat or go toe to toe with Somalis are the Amhara, look at what Menelik did, his armies swept through Galbeed and even reached Beledweyn, that is respectable strength. Oromo langaab did no such thing.
The Oromo did great things from a small group in the thirteenth century to becoming the largest in terms of land and numbers. It is not a simple thing. You do not respect them it's your problem
 
Oral history says that goobweyne It was given this name
Do you have a source for this? I'm interested.

I'm talking about when they arrived in Harar
You were talking about the Egyptians but okay. Like I said Adal was heavily weakened and despite the countryside being overran by Oromo, Harar itself was never captured since Nur Ibn Mujahid built its walls.

Conquer the northern Oromo lands and southern Ethiopia were Oromo
So... he was just capturing his own people's territory for the Habesha? How is this supposed to be impressive?
Limmu-Ennarea It is a kingdom in the north
They became a vassal to the Ethiopians. It was just a rump state with little influence.
You do not respect them it's your problem
What is there to respect? They only became powerful and numerous thanks to the Habasha. Somalis never relied on another state/ethnic group.
 
Habash become a generic term for slaves from Ethiopia which could have been omotics and nilotics/Cushitic pagans. The actual Habashi kingdoms were actually major slave traders with the Muslim world. Xabashis preferred to keep omotic/Nilotic slaves in Ethiopia and to sell their Cushitic slaves as the former could be Kept more distinct and separate.

Ps. Ethiopian slaves in Somalia were also called Xabash, but they were not necessarily Xabashis ethnically.
Nope there were many Ethnic Habesh slaves
 

Removed

Gif-King
VIP
I am talking about The African Rinderpest Panzooti The Oromo grazed cows and 90% of their livestock died, while the Somalis had camels This is what helped you. The Ogadis and some Oromo tribes were always fighting, and the Ogadis did not achieve such a victory. Rather, the reason was because famine struck the Oromo.
And it was not only Ogaden clans But share it with dagoodi,garre,gaaljecal,
Not why you mentioned Isaaq
but you should know that one of the reasons for the migration of the ogaden was their loss in haro garduur Then Reer Cabdulle crossed shabeele
In the past there was ogaden ciideed I am the one who lives in their land now . If these people are the bravest of Somalis, then I am braver than them because I defeated them and took All their geel And I defeated them at lafruug😂
Even jeer ugaas Ogden abaanduule We killed him in 1850s

What a stupid post. Reer Cabdille dont have a significant border with the Isaaq nor do they have one at the Shabelle. The ones that do border Isaaq regularly abused them as far as Hargeisa/Berbera until the british came to save them.
5F6C589B-DEF3-4BF0-8332-CB6AD9AF6EE7.jpeg




The author here clearly states among other factors “the need to subjugate ones neighbor” and that the Ogaden were the first in order compared to other Somalis which is why we have the bulk of the land and credit against Galla-madow

Somali camels are also at a complete disadvantage due to the tsetse fly hence why the Ogaden in Waamo switched to herding cows.
E338B797-3C73-4BB0-9FB0-E5A6590B6D31.png

Another question being if the Ogaden warriors coming into Jubba-Tana were relying on the livestock looted from the pagan oromos then how is the cause for their success a plague hitting their cows? I would be jealous too if this was my neighbor :banderas:
00252DEB-BE9B-4522-ACB7-22974014D3CF.jpeg
 

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