Marshall D Abdi
Know you’re place peasant
U guys know that in Tanzania this culture has survived and its majestic view especielly in Zanzibar when they are taking over
Somalis' Sewn-boats
- Thread starter Shimbiris
- Start date
Great job bro. As I said before these documented sources by colonial officials but we can easily conclude Somalia were active in seafaring since before these accounts because obviously it's unlikely somalis suddenly started to travel these seas in the 1800s without having any prior tradition.
Grant himself admitted in another post that QUOTE : The Mogadishu merchants sent about 20 "pangaios", small rudderless boats only capable of inshore travel, with Mir Ali Bey during the 1585 raid on Lamu.
This is from a Portuguese source.
Pangaios are Also called Penjajap and are boats used by Austronesian and southasia people in Indonesia, Malaysia etc.
This is a drawing of the boats
While we don't know if the Portuguese correctly identified the boat types we can assume somalis in Mogadishu had medium sized boats. These vessels were mostly used for small distance travel to Yemen, Arabia, Swahili coast etc but they could potentially reach India
Yes, it would be unreasonable to assume seafaring this well-developed where they're going to Yemen, Oman, India and Tanzania as well as all over their own coast just suddenly popped up in 1815 or something. There is also one historical allusion to the fact that the seafaring that seems to have went on during the 1800s and 1900s stretched quite far back. The Maldives.
In the early 1300s Ibn Battuta carries on the Arab/Islamic world tradition of calling Somalis "Berbers" ("Barbar/Barbara") from the ancient Greco-Roman "Barbaroi" and he describes the Berbers in a manner that makes it fairly clear he's speaking of Somalis:
That could only be more clear if he called them "Somali", lol. Describes their pastoralist lifestyle, their skin-tone, their exact correct school of Islam and even alludes to Somali sheep known for their hardiness thanks to their fatty tails which led them to become popular abroad like in South Africa. He then arrives later in the Maldives and says that the King of the Maldives was converted to Islam by a Yusuf al-"Barbari" and, fittingly enough, Maldivians are Shafi'i Muslims like Somalis:
Yusuf al-Barbari seems to often be attributed to Moroccans even though I don't think Battuta states he's a Maghrebi like him (still hunting for the primary source) and the school of Islam practiced in the Maldives fits more with him being from the Somali coast as we know Somalis were Shafi'is even in 1331 from Battuta himself though I've seen claims that Maldivians were Maliki before the 17th century but I have yet to verify this with sources.
But anyway, there was interestingly both a possible Xabash and a guy from Xamar who may have very well been a "Berber" (Somali) with prominent positions in the Maldives when Battuta visits which points to Horners already being there in 1344. A local Sheikh called "Shaykh Najib al Habashi Al Salih" and local governor called "Abd Aziz al-Makdashawi". The Maldivians also call the man who converted them "Abu al-Barakkat" which coincidentally is the Arabic translation of the Somali "Aw Barkhadle" ("Blessed Father"):
Yusuf bin Ahmad al-Kawneyn
Might be something to it. If it really is him then what a baller. Gets credited for founding Far Wadaad, founded or at least got used as a progenitor by a prominent royal family in the Horn and converted Maldivians to Islam.
Clllam
Æ
Sxb, what info do you and @Shimbiris have regarding the supposed naval repulsion of the Portuguese by the Ajuran and Mogadishan Muzaffars? Southern History is severely under-documented.Great job bro. As I said before these documented sources by colonial officials but we can easily conclude Somalia were active in seafaring since before these accounts because obviously it's unlikely somalis suddenly started to travel these seas in the 1800s without having any prior tradition.
Grant himself admitted in another post that QUOTE : The Mogadishu merchants sent about 20 "pangaios", small rudderless boats only capable of inshore travel, with Mir Ali Bey during the 1585 raid on Lamu.
This is from a Portuguese source.
Pangaios are Also called Penjajap and are boats used by Austronesian and southasia people in Indonesia, Malaysia etc.
This is a drawing of the boats
While we don't know if the Portuguese correctly identified the boat types we can assume somalis in Mogadishu had medium sized boats. These vessels were mostly used for small distance travel to Yemen, Arabia, Swahili coast etc but they could potentially reach India if equipped with a rudder
Reformed J
VIP
Desi Muslims from surrounding Kerala (Malabar), Sri Lanka, and southern Tamil Nadu (non-Turkic/Mughal influenced) are Shafi'i. They're thought to have been converted by Yemeni merchants.
Thought by whom? You have a source for this? I've never seen any mention of them being converted by Yemenis.
And I dunno, walaal. I gotta say that the Yusuf Abu al-Barakat al-Barbari is incredibly damning. It's the same name as the Somali saint, the same exact title translated into Arabic AND he's referred to as a "Berber" (medieval term for Somalis and Maghrebis). Then we seem to have evidence of people from the Horn being there in 1344 like that Sheikh and the Governor. Not to mention that Somalis clearly have been a seafaring people in the last couple of centuries and had coastal towns and trade back then with at least confirmed accounts of coastal fishing and smaller vessels by the 1300s. THEN it's the exact same madhab as us? You really don't see how damning this is?
The alchemist
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We have portoguese and Arab sources.
I think the maldiveans themselves say they were converted by Arabs even though it's likely they probably didn't know the difference between Arabs and non-arabs back then and identified Muslim merchants as Arabs regardless of their true ethnicity
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Reformed J
VIP
I'm talking about the surrounding shafi'is (Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Sri Lanka) in southern India, not Maldivians to be clear.
We have few Arab and portoguese sources that briefly mention what happened. Basically the portoguese started an expedition to attack the rich cities of the Somali and Swahili coast. The Ajuran and muzzafars were hostile to portoguese influence and felt threateo by their territorial gains in Africa so they requested ottoman assistance, the portoguese attacked Mogadishu and Barawe and sacked the two cities, the local Somalia fought back but we're greatly damaged. The portoguese didn't try to occupy the cities and returned to the Swahili coast were they had military bases. Later on in the late 1500s somalis participated in the ottoman led offensive to free Swahili cities from the portoguese, despite initially driving out the European forces the Muslims had to retreate and the portoguese recaptured the Swahili coast. The portoguese refrained from any other attack on Somali cities and focused on their territories in modern day Kenya
I think only modern sources identify him as morrocan because of the name "barbari". Geography makes it more likely that he was from Somalia since it's closer to the Maldives and a Moroccan had really no reason to travel so far away. There's no Moroccan presence in south Asia, most of the muslims in Indonesia, Malaysia, Maldives etc only had contacta with Yemeni arabs.Yes, it would be unreasonable to assume seafaring this well-developed where they're going to Yemen, Oman, India and Tanzania as well as all over their own coast just suddenly popped up in 1815 or something. There is also one historical allusion to the fact that the seafaring that seems to have went on during the 1800s and 1900s stretched quite far back. The Maldives.
In the early 1300s Ibn Battuta carries on the Arab/Islamic world tradition of calling Somalis "Berbers" ("Barbar/Barbara") from the ancient Greco-Roman "Barbaroi" and he describes the Berbers in a manner that makes it fairly clear he's speaking of Somalis:
That could only be more clear if he called them "Somali", lol. Describes their pastoralist lifestyle, their skin-tone, their exact correct school of Islam and even alludes to Somali sheep known for their hardiness thanks to their fatty tails which led them to become popular abroad like in South Africa. He then arrives later in the Maldives and says that the King of the Maldives was converted to Islam by a Yusuf al-"Barbari" and, fittingly enough, Maldivians are Shafi'i Muslims like Somalis:
Yusuf al-Barbari seems to often be attributed to Moroccans even though I don't think Battuta states he's a Maghrebi like him (still hunting for the primary source) and the school of Islam practiced in the Maldives fits more with him being from the Somali coast as we know Somalis were Shafi'is even in 1331 from Battuta himself though I've seen claims that Maldivians were Maliki before the 17th century but I have yet to verify this with sources.
But anyway, there was interestingly both a possible Xabash and a guy from Xamar who may have very well been a "Berber" (Somali) with prominent positions in the Maldives when Battuta visits which points to Horners already being there in 1344. A local Sheikh called "Shaykh Najib al Habashi Al Salih" and local governor called "Abd Aziz al-Makdashawi". The Maldivians also call the man who converted them "Abu al-Barakkat" which coincidentally is the Arabic translation of the Somali "Aw Barkhadle" ("Blessed Father"):
Yusuf bin Ahmad al-Kawneyn
Might be something to it. If it really is him then what a baller. Gets credited for founding Far Wadaad, founded or at least got used as a progenitor by a prominent royal family in the Horn and converted Maldivians to Islam.
Sure thing but you still haven't addressed how damning all of that stuff is:
- Same name as the Somali figure (Yusuf)
- Same title translated into Arabic: Abu al-Barakat and Aw Barkhadle mean the same thing
- Timeline fits since he is dated to the 12th century and these guys were apparently Islamized during the 12th century
- He is referred to as a Berber which we know is a medieval term for Somalis and Maghrebis, used to describe us several times from the 12th to about the 14th-15th centuries.
- There seem to have been at least two people in 1344 from the Horn in the Maldives with prominent positions. A Governor from Xamar and a seemingly Xabash Sheikh.
- Somalis are clearly a seafaring people in the last 2 centuries who made it as far as India and we know from sources dating to the 12th-14th centuries that there was fishing activity and at least smaller coast-hugging vessels present. I'll look into all the Portuguese and Ottoman stuff but if that's also legit then that shows seafaring capabilities during the 1400s as well.
- Then they are also Shafi'is like Somalis. Still need to confirm whether or not this was always the case, though.
This is too much to ignore, saaxiib.
The only thing that makes me sceptical is that Aw Barkhadle is buried in Somalia while the Abu barakat guy mentioned by maldiveans is buried in the Maldives in a medieval mosque.
The New Cambridge History of Islam: Volume 3, The Eastern Islamic World briefly mentions this fact and says there's much confusion on the Ibn battuta account.
I think the morrocan hypothesis is probably a product of lazy scholarships who translated Berber with moroccan but the somali hypothesis also lacks some evidence. I more inclined to think the Maldives probably came in contact with multiple merchants rather than just one dude. It makes more sense.
Reformed J
VIP
I was merely disputing the use of shafi'i madhab as determinant of the Somali influence since it's not that much different from their muslim south asian neighbours.
Hmmm, it could just be that they recounted him as buried there out of fervor when he was actually not or that even the Somalis back home did the same when he possibly never came back after venturing out. It wouldn't be the first time in history that people have made a false tomb for someone. But thank you for this piece of info. Pokes an interesting hole but it still feels too damning. The timeline, the name, the title Berber, Somalis being seafarers and it being therefore possible, the madhab... I dunno.
I'm not entirely sure when the shaafi school became predominant but I guess it was always the most widespread school
Please DM him or go to his page directly. Don't want this thread derailed. I'm preparing at least 4 posts I've been delayed with for about 2 months now. Found a lot of other early modern sources on Somalis and seafaring, even ones including the Isaaq and reer Koonfur to some extent and loads on Hartis all ranging from the start of the 1800s to the early 1900s.
Hamzza
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