Somalia's paleolithic hunter-gatherers

[Timo Jareer and proud]

The hadza and sandawe are actually closely related with mota not the khoisan, khois can only be found in Southern Africa

The Hadza and Sandawe have been identified as speaking click languages. Only languages on the planet that have click sounds in their language are the Khosian language family. They also carry the same paternal Haplogroup as Khosian. The only huge difference is skin colour but, it has recently been discovered that the Khosian only devovlped light skin as recent as 3000 years ago. Meaning during the time of Prophet Sulimen (s.a.w) the Khosian where dark skinned.

 

[southside]

Nilo Sharans migrated to South Sudan. The Dinka and other Nilos have origin stories stating they are originally from "the North" I.E, Sudan.

sxb the nilotics true ancient origins are in southern sudan before they were even referred to as nilotics, they later migrated up north to north sudan then migrated west into chad

 

[land owner]

The Hadza and Sandawe have been identified as speaking click languages. Only languages on the planet that have click sounds in their language are the Khosian language family. They also carry the same paternal Haplogroup as Khosian. The only huge difference is skin colour but, it has recently been discovered that the Khosian only devovlped light skin as recent as 3000 years ago. Meaning during the time of Prophet Sulimen (s.a.w) the Khosian where dark skinned.

Hadza is an isolate language and there are debates on whether or not sandawe falls under khoi, I’m sure the sandawe and khoi click connection could be due to a basal african commonality

There are two Tanzanian languages, Hadza (about 800 speakers) and Sandawe (about 40,000 speakers) which are conventionally included under Khoisan. Hadza is not known to be related to other languages; Güldemann and Elderkin (2010) argue that Sandawe is related to Khoe- Kwadi.

https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/10/3/875/4935243

it has recently been discovered that the Khosian only devovlped light skin as recent as 3000 years ago.

Source?

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Hadza is an isolate language and there are debates on whether or not sandawe falls under khoi, I’m sure the sandawe and khoi click connection could be due to a basal african commonality

https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/10/3/875/4935243
Source?

I read it somehow around a year ago I'll try finding it again

 

[southside]

The 10% Hunter Gatherer DNA in Somalis is nothing.

even though its not that much of our ancestry its still unique to us since no other ethnicity has that ancestry other than us

 

[Grant]

even though its not that much of our ancestry its still unique to us since no other ethnicity has that ancestry other than us

10-12% is huge, and the uniqueness will not be known until at least the af Helledi speakers, the Eyle and reer Manyo are tested.

You have nothing so far to compare to.

 

[southside]

10-12% is huge, and the uniqueness will not be known until at least the af Helledi speakers, the Eyle and reer Manyo are tested.

You have nothing so far to compare to.

what in the world is a helledi? also reer manyo is a reer xamar subclan if they have the hunter gatherer ancestry its through their ethnic somali ancestry but the bantu, arab, persian etc ancestry will obviously minimize it

 

[Grant]

what in the world is a helledi? also reer manyo is a reer xamar subclan if they have the hunter gatherer ancestry its through their ethnic somali ancestry

but the bantu, arab, persian etc ancestry will obviously minimize it

Af Helledi is one or more secret languages spoken by interriverine hunter/gatherer groups. It has never been pinned down, but the remaining speakers are probably very early. Look it up.

Reer Manyo are a fishing people, listed by Ehret as one of the very earliest inhabitants of Somalia. They had small villages along the coast.

The Eyle are part of the Bardaale archaeological record centered at Buur Heybe. You can look up the main site, dated to 20 Kya, It's called Gogoshiis Qabe.

 

[Apollo]

10-12% is huge, and the uniqueness will not be known until at least the af Helledi speakers, the Eyle and reer Manyo are tested.

You have nothing so far to compare to.

These Bantu admixed groups have LESS of it than Cushitic Somalis.

They are primarily Cushitic Somali + Bantu = meaning a reduction of hunter-gatherer ancestry native to Somalia. Just like Benadiris with their West Asian ancestry have less of it than ethnic Somalis.

The population with the most % of it are Samaale Somalis who remained racially unaltered since the Bronze Age.

 

[Apollo]

Nilo Sharans are actually from North Africa (Sudan) not East Africa.

The 10% Hunter Gatherer DNA in Somalis is nothing. AA are 10-20% Cadaan on average yet there is pretty much no difference between them and modern day West Africans.

Khoisan used to live in East Africa tell the Afro Asaitic, Bantu, and Nilo Sharan migrations wiped them off the map. Their is still small community's in Kenya and Tanzania that decedent from their Khosian ancestors. But, they are few and far between.

Nilotes are not from the Sahara or North Sudan. They largely originated from South Sudan and the Western edges of Ethiopia. This is in East Africa.

Northern Sudan was historically (during the epipaleolithic) occupied by proto-Afro-Asiatics more similar to Taforalts and Upper Egyptians than to today's North Sudanese who pushed from the South-Northwards after the Nilote Neolithic (when Nilotes got agriculture).

 

[Grant]

These Bantu admixed groups have LESS of it than Cushitic Somalis.

They are primarily Cushitic Somali + Bantu = meaning a reduction of hunter-gatherer ancestry native to Somalia. Just like Benadiris with their West Asian ancestry have less of it than ethnic Somalis.

The population with the most % of it are Samaale Somalis who remained racially unaltered since the Bronze Age.

Links would be nice. You need something to compare to.

Your single mixed maybe Eyle does not qualify for data on the Eyle..

I see no data on the reer Manyo.

I see no data on the af Helledi speakers.

If the Samaales are from the northeast Sudan and racially unaltered since the Bronze Age, when and where did they get 10-12% Somali Paleo ancestry?

https://www.history.com/topics/pre-history/bronze-age

"The Bronze Age ended abruptly around 1200 B.C. in the Middle East, North Africa and Mediterranean Europe."

You are really pushing the timeline.

 

[Apollo]

Links would be nice. You need something to compare to.

Your single mixed maybe Eyle does not qualify for data on the Eyle..

I see no data on the reer Manyo.

I see no data on the af Helledi speakers.

If the Samaales are from the northeast Sudan and racially unaltered since the Bronze Age, when and where did they get 10-12% Somali Paleo ancestry?

https://www.history.com/topics/pre-history/bronze-age

"The Bronze Age ended abruptly around 1200 B.C. in the Middle East, North Africa and Mediterranean Europe."

You are really pushing the timeline.

Somalia has no in situ genetic diversity. Most of the ''diversity'' is due to migration, not natural population splits/substructures.

The only differences that can be found are primarily Niger-Congo Bantu admixed outliers or West Asian admixed outliers (think Benadiris).

Extra hunter-gatherer admixed outliers do NOT exist in Somalia and I have never ever seen an example of it anywhere. I have read every single study on Somalis and have access to hundreds of Somali genomes.

PS. That HG admixture was acquired in ''Samaales'' prior to the Bronze Age as they have been present inside of Somalia for over 3,000 years.

 

[Dues Ex Machina]

Bonis/Bo0ns are mixed with Bantus. We have genetic data on them.

They are not native to Somalia.

In the documents it shows that they are good scouts and hunters, where do they originate from? The British archives have documents regarding the different tribes of the old British Jubbaland protectorate and it mentions that we were able to put them in the field to work i.e hunt elephants and bring ivory to their Somali masters which was one of the most sought after commodities of the time. As well as being bondsmen and fighting on behalf of their patrons. Captain S.E. Salkeld said the Waboni were the properties of their Somali masters and their offsprings would inherit them in their will. What makes them different to the bantu slaves of that time?

 

[PirateJosper]

In the documents it shows that they are good scouts and hunters, where do they originate from? The British archives have documents regarding the different tribes of the old British Jubbaland protectorate and it mentions that we were able to put them in the field to work i.e hunt elephants and bring ivory to their Somali masters which was one of the most sought after commodities of the time. As well as being bondsmen and fighting on behalf of their patrons. Captain S.E. Salkeld said the Waboni were the properties of their Somali masters and their offsprings would inherit them in their will. What makes them different to the bantu slaves of that time?

Source? I would like to read the old documents regarding Somali masters.

 

[land owner]

Nilotes are not from the Sahara or North Sudan. They largely originated from South Sudan and the Western edges of Ethiopia. This is in East Africa.

Northern Sudan was historically (during the epipaleolithic) occupied by proto-Afro-Asiatics more similar to Taforalts and Upper Egyptians than to today's North Sudanese who pushed from the South-Northwards after the Nilote Neolithic (when Nilotes got agriculture).

They say South Sudan has gold they’re gonna have to split that with us

 

[Grant]

Somalia has no in situ genetic diversity. Most of the ''diversity'' is due to migration, not natural population splits/substructures.

The only differences that can be found are primarily Niger-Congo Bantu admixed outliers or West Asian admixed outliers (think Benadiris).

Extra hunter-gatherer admixed outliers do NOT exist in Somalia and I have never ever seen an example of it anywhere. I have read every single study on Somalis and have access to hundreds of Somali genomes.

PS. That HG admixture was acquired in ''Samaales'' prior to the Bronze Age as they have been present inside of Somalia for over 3,000 years.

The relevant populations are extremely small to begin with, and are also among those least likely to be in the diaspora or to have been tested.
We both know the 23andme data is barely identified by name, and by clan not at all.
If you had actual data you would be sharing it, and you're not.
The Dir may have been in Somalia 3 K, but
Ehret says the proto-Doy, which would be E-V 32, reached the Shabelli coastal plain in the 2nd century AD. The clans don't even form until the 12th-13th centuries. So where do you get that the Samaales, as Samaales, have been in Somalia for 3 K? There's certainly no abtirsi that long.

 

[Apollo]

The relevant populations are extremely small to begin with, and are also among those least likely to be in the diaspora or to have been tested.
We both know the 23andme data is barely identified by name, and by clan not at all.
If you had actual data you would be sharing it, and you're not.
The Dir may have been in Somalia 3 K, but
Ehret says the proto-Doy, which would be E-V 32, reached the Shabelli coastal plain in the 2nd century AD. The clans don't even form until the 12th-13th centuries. So where do you get that the Samaales, as Samaales, have been in Somalia for 3 K? There's certainly no abtirsi that long.

Ehret's work is extremely outdated and many of his hypotheses are based on tribal hearsay he documented while doing interviews (ethnography) with Africans in the late 20th century. His work is not primarily based on genetics or archaeology. E-V32 has been around Northern Kenya (and by definition South Somalia as well) since about 3,300 years ago.

Ethnic Somalis have been in Somalia for over 3,000 years and are the oldest and most native population of Somalia.

 

[Grant]

Ehret's work is extremely outdated and many of his hypotheses are based on tribal hearsay he documented while doing interviews (ethnography) with Africans in the late 20th century. His work is not primarily based on genetics or archaeology. E-V32 has been around Northern Kenya (and by definition South Somalia as well) since about 3,300 years ago.

Ethnic Somalis have been in Somalia for over 3,000 years and are the oldest and most native population of Somalia.

Aren't you thinking of the South Cushitic Dahaloans? Northern Somalis, moving back south, don't cross the Jubba until 1850. Links would be nice.

 

[land owner]

Maybe these minor groups were once Khoisan in origin but as the enslaved slaves were also seen as lower class since the weren’t cushites the two lower class ethnicities mixed. So while they may currently be mostly Bantu in origin they may have more Khoisan blood as a mobile Somali wouldn’t mix with them anyways.

There was never any khoisans in somalia sxb

 

[Grant]

There was never any khoisans in somalia sxb

There are at least three extant Somali Paleo groups: the Aweer/Boni, the Eyle and the reer Manyo. Some of the af Helledi speakers may constitute a fourth group, and there may be others. The Boni-Aweer are related to the Hadza and Sandawe, who are unquestionably Khoisan.

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aweer_people

"Evidence suggests that the Aweer/Boni, along with the related Dahalo and Wata, are remnants of the early Bushman hunter-gatherer inhabitants of Eastern Africa. According to linguistic, anthropological and other data, these groups later came under the influence and adopted the Afro-Asiatic languages of the Eastern and Southern Cushitic peoples who moved into the area. Dahalo has consequently retained some of the characteristic click sounds of the Khoisan languages.[2]"

They have been driven south, but there are still some in Somalia:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=The+Aweer/Boni+of+Somalia?&fr=yhs-iba-1&hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&imgurl=https://www.aberfoylesecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Lamu-Aweer-Map.png#id=6&iurl=https://www.aberfoylesecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Lamu-Aweer-Map.png&action=click

https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/11443

Page 122:

"Besides the Boni and Sengwer, all current East African hunter-gatherers share common haplotypes (mtDNA L4, L3a, L0d3 and Y chromosome B2a and B2b), suggesting that the current East African hunter-gatherers might represent remnants of the previous pre-Holocene and early Holocene population in the region. The Boni and the Sengwer appear to have had substantial levels of gene flow from other neighboring populations that appear to have the hunter-gatherer “genetic signature”. In fact, the Orma and Kalenjin populations that neighbor the Boni and the Sengwer, respectively, carry hunter-gatherer haplotypes at moderate frequencies indicating possible “reverse” gene flow."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_B-M60

"B-M112[edit]B-M112 (M112, M192, 50f2(P)) has been found mainly among pygmy populations in Central Africa, Juu (Northern Khoisan) populations in Southern Africa, and the Hadzabe in East Africa. It also has been found occasionally in samples of groups who neighbor the aforementioned populations.

Specifically, haplogroup B2b has been observed in 67% (12/18) of a sample of Baka from Central African Republic,[2] 52% (12/23) or 51% (29/57) of a sample of Hadzabe from Tanzania,[3][4] 48% (15/31) of a sample of Biaka from Central African Republic,[2] 43% (20/47) of a sample of Mbuti from the Democratic Republic of the Congo,[2] 31% (9/29) of a sample of Tsumkwe San from Namibia,[2] 28% (11/39) of a sample of the Northern Khoisan-speaking Ju|’hoansi and Sekele peoples,[3][7] 25% (6/24) of a sample of Burunge from Tanzania,[4] 14% (13/94) of a sample of Tutsi from Rwanda,[9] 13% (9/68) of a sample of Sandawe from Tanzania,[4] 9% (3/32) of a sample of !Kung/Sekele from Namibia,[2] 5% (1/20) of a sample of Turu from Tanzania,[4] 5% (2/43) of a sample of Wairak from Tanzania,[9]3% (1/29) of a sample of Zulu from South Africa,[2] 3% (1/33) of a sample of Bakola from southern Cameroon,[2] 3% (1/35) of a sample of Datog from Tanzania,[4] 3% (1/35) of a sample of Malagasy,[12] 1.4% (1/69) of a sample of Hutu from Rwanda,[9] 1.4% (1/72) of a sample from Qatar,[15] and 1.3% (2/157) of a sample from Saudi Arabia.[16]"