Somali & Horner Genetic Models

[The alchemist]

lmao I'm Eritrean

Kkk, my bad.

 

[tariq moses]

Kkk, my bad.

its all good lol

 

[Shimbiris]

its all good lol

Nin Eritrean?! Welcome, xawey! I was originally brought into pop genetics a decade ago by a Biher-Tigrinya brother. Always remember him as a big bro. Much love for your people, niyahow.

 

[Som]

And it's so homogenous too. Even with differing admixtures like how Libyans have loads of Arabian admixture, the whole region is like 15-25% SSA. So weird to remind myself when I sometimes meet lighter skinned and blue-eyed Maghrebis that I'm looking at a saaxiib who maybe 1/4 brudda.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Really? Maghrebis are mostly light skinned, obviously darker than levantine Arabs but still they don't look that much african expect for a few outliers who are black. I read that Egyptians have around 8-10% SSA ancestry

 

[Apollo]

Really? Maghrebis are mostly light skinned, obviously darker than levantine Arabs but still they don't look that much african expect for a few outliers who are black. I read that Egyptians have around 8-10% SSA ancestry

Maghrebis are lighter due to having more Anatolian farmer ancestry.

Egyptians, even Muslim Egyptians, are more non-SSA genetically because they have a higher proportion of Natufian/Arabian-like ancestry than Maghrebis.

Skin color is a bad measure. Indians are much darker than Arabs, but they are still much less African related than all Arabs.

 

[World]

Interesting. The subsaharan competent is significantly lower than what it should be according to studies. If we add south African hunter gatherers + sub Saharan you get just a little bit more than 50% subsaharan African ancestry while it should be slightly above 60% according to most studies.
@Shimbiris

Unless they are mixed, there aren’t any Somali samples above 60 % SSA. It is on average 55 %.

 

[Apollo]

Unless they are mixed, there aren’t any Somali samples above 60 % SSA. It is on average 55 %.

It depends on the definition of SSA and what the component is made from.

The more paleolithic the SSA definition is, the lower the number goes. The more East African samples (including HOA HGs etc) the higher the number gets.

SSA is also not a genuine component. The Khoisan and Yoruba are less related to each other than the French and Yoruba are (especially using whole genome tech).

 

[Som]

It depends on the definition of SSA and what the component is made from.

The more paleolithic the SSA definition is, the lower the number goes. The more East African samples (including HOA HGs etc) the higher the number gets.

SSA is also not a genuine component. The Khoisan and Yoruba are less related to each other than the French and Yoruba are (especially using whole genome tech).

Yes but at the end of the day SSA is made of three main components (correct me if I'm wrong) which are Nilotic Dinka like DNA, Bantu and Khoisan.

 

[Apollo]

Yes but at the end of the day SSA is made of three main components (correct me if I'm wrong) which are Nilotic Dinka like DNA, Bantu and Khoisan.

More or less, but you forgot the Pygmies and the various types of Eastern HGs.

You can use SSA as a short cut, but in the genetic sense it is not a real component. Just like Eurasian is barely a component.

 

[Som]

Maghrebis are lighter due to having more Anatolian farmer ancestry.

Egyptians, even Muslim Egyptians, are more non-SSA genetically because they have a higher proportion of Natufian/Arabian-like ancestry than Maghrebis.

Skin color is a bad measure. Indians are much darker than Arabs, but they are still much less African related than all Arabs.

So are maghrebis really 15% + subsaharan African? That's a lot. Algerians and most tunisians look very white to me , maybe Moroccans have more SSA. A guy like Mohamed Salah from Liverpool looks more African to me than Benzema or Zidane.
Is there a difference between Arab maghrebis and Berber maghrebis when it comes to SSA DNA?

 

[Apollo]

So are maghrebis really 15% + subsaharan African? That's a lot. Algerians and most tunisians look very white to me , maybe Moroccans have more SSA. A guy like Mohamed Salah from Liverpool looks more African to me than Benzema or Zidane.
Is there a difference between Arab maghrebis and Berber maghrebis when it comes to SSA DNA?

It is not because they have mixed more with SSAs than Egyptians in recent years. It is mainly due to the Taforalt population which lived in the Maghreb before the Anatolian farmers was likely more SSA shifted than the population living in Egypt at the same time period. @Shimbiris posted correspondence with researchers who have access to older types of Ancient Egyptians and apparently they were mostly similar to Natufians on the SSA to Eurasia axis.

Even Rif Berbers and the Kabyle Berbers, who are phenotypically the 'whitest' North Africans are slightly more SSA autosomally than Northern Egyptian Muslims.

Basically groups with more Anatolian farmer ancestry tend to be lighter than groups with more of the Egyptian/Natufian/Arabian component (like Egyptians, Saudis etc).

 

[The alchemist]

It depends on the definition of SSA and what the component is made from.

The more paleolithic the SSA definition is, the lower the number goes. The more East African samples (including HOA HGs etc) the higher the number gets.

SSA is also not a genuine component. The Khoisan and Yoruba are less related to each other than the French and Yoruba are (especially using whole genome tech).

This is an important fact one has to keep in the background. SSA is mainly about general relative genetic drift (not about specific relational affinities between African populations) that OOA people went through often to highlight heuristic data points. A half West African and Egyptian person is less close to an Egyptian than a random Italian (who has no direct Egyptian ancestry) is to an Egyptian. So on a distance scale, the SSA, in this case, West African, shows deep characteristics that I think all Eurasians lack because of rapid genetic drift after the small effective population's size underwent continual founder effects since way back in Out Of Africa times and later.

There is no clear-cut line between SSAs and Eurasians. Different deep lineages such as the various hunter-gatherer clusters have very distinctive signatures. Take for example, southern African hunter-gatherers or the rainforest hunter-gatherers. Those people, if used as a source to model Yoruba, will show that Yoruba needs a substantial Eurasian-related component. And the Paleolithic Northeast Africans and North Africans had a high amount of ancestry that falls between those two, like a continuum almost. We even have remnants of this today through Taforalt, East African hunter-gatherers, even Somalis to a lesser degree carry something that messes up the models sometimes.

 

[SwedishAbdi96]

Maghrebis are lighter due to having more Anatolian farmer ancestry.

Egyptians, even Muslim Egyptians, are more non-SSA genetically because they have a higher proportion of Natufian/Arabian-like ancestry than Maghrebis.

Skin color is a bad measure. Indians are much darker than Arabs, but they are still much less African related than all Arabs.

I have seen like 10% of Maghrebis that got kinky hair like West Africans but brown in colour, and skin as pale as your average central european.

Generally, it is also possible too see their negroid dna by looking at their physique, that is influenced clearly by their ancient West African- like dna, they have that distinct mesomorph physique with plastic looking muscles that is different from mesomorph body of cro-magnon people/phenotype (big muscles but flat, instesd of round/bodybuilding like).

Interesting ethnic group.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Maghrebis have variety.My wife's father is from Southern Morocco at the gate of the Sahara from an Arab tribe and looks very Yemeni.While my mother-in-law is from Northern Morocco and much lighter (typical Med look), she also belongs to a tribe that left Al-Andalus for Fez but my mother-in-law has an Amazigh mother and these moriscos probably heavily admixed with the Amazighs anyway

 

[Rayaale]

There maybe some diversity with them. I suspect, based on what people often say about Jabuutian Canfars and what I've seen with my own eyes, that Jabuutian Canfars probably look very Somaloid genetically. These samples are likely more representative of the Eritrean and some of the Ethiopian ones.

Other than this height, Afars look very similar to Somalis

 

[Xabeshi]

Mesolithic model, seems like Somalis prefer the Socotra samples for Arabian ancestry over Al Jawf,
Also in some runs, Afar comes up with minor simulated AASI admixture, don't know if this is genuine South Asian or just noise

 

[Xabeshi]

Removed some of the more admixed SSA sources other than Mota
Edit: the Sudanese sample is SUDANESE7, afaik its the best non-Eurasian or low Eurasian admixed AEA proxy

 

[Xabeshi]

Weird European admixture in this one Savannah Pastoralist sample

 

[Xabeshi]

Sources for second pic:

Ethiopia_LSA_Mota_4500BP_(n=1),-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838

Israel_Epipaleolithic_Natufian_(n=2),0.0227645,0.141666,-0.0371465,-0.1406675,0.030775,-0.0787865,-0.023031,-0.01823,0.1154535,0.001731,0.0306105,-0.023904,0.0789385,0.000826,0.0147935,0.0102755,-0.017341,0.00057,-0.019609,0.0398315,0.0020585,0.00136,-0.00265,-0.002229,0.008502

Morocco_Epipaleolithic_Ifri_Ouberrid_(n=1),-0.188946,0.096475,-0.026776,-0.098515,0.028005,-0.06024,-0.068153,0.022845,0.164437,-0.002551,0.0177,-0.025627,0.088304,-0.043489,0.076003,-0.05171,-0.007171,-0.072593,-0.152346,0.047148,-0.042425,-0.139233,0.086643,-0.015183,0.020956

Socotra_Early_Medieval_o_(Arabian-Mixed_Profile)_(n=1),0.047806,0.117801,-0.072784,-0.080427,-0.028005,-0.034025,-0.015981,-0.003692,0.044586,-0.010023,0.012666,-0.02233,0.045193,-0.004817,0.001629,0.011668,-0.005346,0.003167,0.000377,0.007128,0.003244,0.016446,-0.007025,0.007712,-0.012214

Socotra_High_Medieval_(n=4),0.04524475,0.13405,-0.06580775,-0.11175875,-0.01123275,-0.04671425,-0.01145675,-0.00548075,0.05818725,-0.005877,0.004425,-0.02806225,0.05753175,0.0023395,0.009772,0.0238,-0.0168195,0.002122,-0.002891,0.0222295,0.01210375,0.01032525,-0.00360525,-0.0025,-0.0035925

Sudanese:SUDANESE7,-0.571392,0.046714,-0.007165,-0.007429,-0.005232,-0.002789,-0.00799,0.018922,0.0904,-0.108977,-0.018512,0.020831,-0.047125,0.000688,0.013165,-0.023734,0.021644,-0.012035,0.026145,-0.023261,-0.000998,0.004822,-0.000986,-0.001687,0.003712

Yemeni_Arab_Al_Jawf_(n=4),0.04922825,0.14141225,-0.0630735,-0.11555425,-0.01069425,-0.04734175,-0.00940025,-0.0071535,0.05813575,-0.0025965,0.01286925,-0.03143475,0.05730875,0.003888,0.0038,0.01959025,-0.02047025,0.00399075,0.00317375,0.02213575,0.01070025,0.01471475,-0.01306425,0.00855525,-0.008562

 

[Xabeshi]

Model with no Moroccans, model with no Moroccans + Nuerat, model + Nuerat & Moroccans

@Shimbiris @NidarNidar @Rayaale @The alchemist @Apostle @Xareen @Doctorabdi @Mohamedamiin120 @Garaad Awal Thoughts?