Socialism for Somalia? Would You Support It?

[peacemaker]

This is so true. Look at the US, the finest example of what capitalism does.
It's a market so dominated by giant corporations that the entrepreneurial pipe dream is to be bought by Google. How laughable. The idea is to compete. But it turns out to be hoping for a buy out. Every week there's a giant billion-dollar merger/acquisition happening.

Then there's their democracy. Somalia's democracy sucks because it's an infant democracy. We're a people figuring it out just now. The US democracy has no excuse to be so corrupt, with millions of people having no impact--but few billionaires and BOOM! Congress is so excited to have a "Debate" about it and eventually reach a predictable conclusion.

Putting economics aside, Socialism's core motivation is the idea we can do better than capitalism. I honestly believe that, and as somalis we could certainly experiment to come up with new systems that fix the failings of 20th century capitalism.

The federal reserve is not capitalism. It wa designed to bail out friends and banks

learn history. Also the US is not capitalist sxb. I wish it was

last time America was capitalist was 1913 before the federal reserve came to existence. You cannot have capitalism with out sound money gold and silver

and no capitalism when you have too big to fail or subsidies to few favourite friends

what you describe is cronyism. I wish we had capitalism in America. I wish.

don’t worry the two least understood things on earth are Islam and capitalism.

 

[peacemaker]

Anyone who watches this to the end can debate with me. Unles you are Absame you can debate with me with out any condition because we are the same Race.

Tom Dilorenzo. 10 things Millennials should know about socialism

book came out around 2012

 

[peacemaker]

Tom Dilorenzo. What is socialism for dumb millennials raised on a diet of champagne socialism hypocritical clueless kids who cut off their nose to spite their face.

Nice title. I made up most of it but you get the gist you communist usleful idiots

 

[peacemaker]

@Abaq @Removed

commanding heights. As I already explained a phrase made famous by Lenin before his new economic deal when he realised the massive mistakes that socialism will never work. Stalin was a stubborn brute who killed millions when he reversed policy after Lenin death

three part section. The best documentary that explains Soviet Union. It’s reasons for collapse. Latin America. Chille Bolivian Brazil. Mexico. Asia. India. China

explains the whole economic systems of the planet for the last 100 years and the men behind the philosophical frame works. The economists

part two and three available on you tube under same title

even polish and British economic reforms of the 80s/90s.

enjoy. Let me know any questions.

other clueless Champagne socialist kids please also watch. It will cure you ability to comment on things you have no idea of hopefully.

 

[peacemaker]

 

[peacemaker]

 

[peacemaker]

 

[Removed]

Rather then debating a label ask what exactly is it people want? Otherwise everyone will lean on the no true scottsman fallacy.

Do you want property rights, lower taxes, and nobody dictating your prices? You can believe a safety net and still believe in these ideas.

While I may disagree with my neoliberal cousin @peacemaker (after all I am a firm believer of the developmental state), I agree with his general disdain for socialism. The state should definitely control the commanding heights fo the economy (utilities, rail etc) not because of socialism but simple service delivery and to make it easier and cheaper for private enterprises to operate and beat the international competition (China gives its factories next to free utilities so they can outcompete the international competition). The state should cooperate with private enterprise rather than compete with it.

The government is more then capable to invest/incentivize where it wishes. If its about simple service delivery why does it need total control over these services(Rail/utilies)?

You will find Somalia like Ethiopia where the government shuts down peoples electricity or blocks them from the internet as soon as theres a demonstration.

 

[Muslim?]

Anyone who watches this to the end can debate with me. Unles you are Absame you can debate with me with out any condition because we are the same Race.

Tom Dilorenzo. 10 things Millennials should know about socialism

book came out around 2012

The first statement by this guy, that socialism is ownership of the means of production by the state is literally wrong. That's the first statement. It's actually by the working class.

The difference is that in an actual socialist society, not one hijacked by dictators like Siyad Barre or Stalin, is that the productive economy as well as most other sectors are owned by the very workers. This means siyad Barre's regime was just state capitalism. Same with the Soviet union, ururka shaqaalaha.

This guy argues that socialism advocates for a progressive tax, but that would never make sense in such a society. If there are workers taking the product of their labour, a progressive tax wouldn't be that necessary. It only makes sense in a capitalist society where means of production are owned by a moneyed elite. Taxing them progressively can yield lots of funding for public programs. It's Social Democrats who advocate for a progressive tax, not socialists. Social democrats are socialists who surrendered to capitalism and decided the second best solution was to tax the capitalists to provide funds for desperately needed public programs.

He talks about Socialism's failed attempts in the past, but I would like you to understand that most supposed "socialist" nations from the 1900s were mostly state capitalist nations. now instead of the capitalist elite owning the means of production, if was the state. Like how Stalin killed millions, as you mentioned, only to sell the product of their labour to the west to fuel his industrialization plan. Remember, if socialism is that you take the product of your labour, was Stalin then a socialist or a capitalist dog stealing from the poor?

Socialism did have failed attempts in the past, but it's core motivation, putting the plans aside for a second, is that we can do better than capitalism. Again. We can do better than capitalism.

Capitalism has resulted in massive wealth gaps, unnecessary poverty, educational gaps, worker exploitation, sweatshops and entire nations being raped for centuries for their resources because it's profitable. Don't forget. You're an African. The Congo, Angola, Nigeria and plenty of other African nations are owned by the west. That is justified under capitalism because all it cares about is profit. I argue that some things shouldn't be for profit --and that the output of your labour shouldn't be mostly stolen by the unnecessary boss.

Capitalism benefits the whites. We Africans need to tear down the global order and socialism is the best alternative right now. Either that or, for the somalis, an Islamic super power that can come to our aid the way the US is always looking out for Europe. Know your enemy. Strategize. And finally, kill them. Even if it takes a millennium.

 

[Abaq]

@peace

cousin the phrase commanding heights comes from a phrase by Lenin when he banned money and free trade and free market and starved and killed several million and forcefully took away their crops and lands. Peasants. Not aristocratics. Peasants freed from
Serfdom in 1860s

So after Mullins starved and died of hunger ,so he allowed free trade and money and ownership and exclaimed commanding heights like copper. Aluminium. Oil. Gas big super power industry should be state domain and sadly Stalin when he took over two years after Lenin and his new deal decided to end the experiment due to Lenin dying Stalin banned money and free trade and ownership of even small land and killed and starved millions of farmers and peasants and city folks

Yeager wrote an amazing book called commanding heights and a really nice three part documentary was made in early 2000 by PBS Frontline

I will post it here Insha Allah. Watch it please. It explains why states owning and controlling so called commanding heights brings in massive corruption. Nepotism and inefficiencies as state actors compete for it just like in Russia that made the oligarchs rise and rape Russia.

so the ideas of Frederick vonHayek and John Keynes battle out thru ideas

Keynes wa star darling of states obsessed with commanding heights ideas and encouraged America. Britain and many other democratic nations.

hayek warned it will lead failures. Inefficiencies and corruption as actors seek state rent seeking as it’s better than free market comeptiton

@Removed is one of the few people I have seen in here who has a really good logical critical thinking skills and can see through the BS - he is a clear headed thinker. Ignore these kids and their parting bro

China is a seeing a huge internal fight over commanding heights. Xi vs Former leader who left power in 2003 zheng

the rise of the princely ha in China has allowed the sons and grandsons of China ccp founders have carved out the nation. No one can start a big business with out their cut and nepotism

careful what you wish for bro please. You might be future Ogadeniya or Jubbaland minister or president Insha Allah one day. It’s my duty to educate you.

America and Britain and many eu nations almost went bankrupt from 1945-1980 due to commanding heights Keynesian believes but von hayak was right he said it will come crushing. And bleed the state with debt and inefficiencies

Labour Party in the UK nearly killed British economy with commanding heights

watch the 3 part documentary. Best ducu that explains the economic systems of the world

China has huge debts now and assume corruption. Because those commanding heights have to be ruled by a person when owned by the state

I want to make sure all future potential Absame leaders are educated. I don’t care for these other champagne socialist kids who want to eats my time. But it’s my duty to correct a cousin of mine least it one day harms the Absame race in case they get into politics

economics is my domain that me when I say commanding heights creates nothing but spoilt ineffective industries protected from competition with tariffs and thus a burden to consumers and tax payers

if you wish to rob from Peter and give to Paul that is what commanding heights state owned industries really are

My qualification for this because Somalis are known to chat nonsense for topics they do not know about: I don’t want to boast but one of the leading free market Austrian experts on Time Preference Theorem as well as Islamic Time preference theorem

As you're the expert I defer to your judgement ina adeer. However, although it is not ideal, you can't deny that the developmental state model of East Asia works wonders in industrialisation even if inefficiencies are generated. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan went from poverty stricken backwaters to industrial giants using that system.

 

[Abaq]

Rather then debating a label ask what exactly is it people want? Otherwise everyone will lean on the no true scottsman fallacy.

Do you want property rights, lower taxes, and nobody dictating your prices? You can believe a safety net and still believe in these ideas.

The government is more then capable to invest/incentivize where it wishes. If its about simple service delivery why does it need total control over these services(Rail/utilies)?

You will find Somalia like Ethiopia where the government shuts down peoples electricity or blocks them from the internet as soon as theres a demonstration.

I've read many of Ha-joon Chang's books and have been thoroughly impressed with his views. You should check him out.

 

[bidenkulaha]

@peace

As you're the expert I defer to your judgement ina adeer. However, although it is not ideal, you can't deny that the developmental state model of East Asia works wonders in industrialisation even if inefficiencies are generated. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan went from poverty stricken backwaters to industrial giants using that system.

We can learn a lot from East Asia. However Somalia is ungovernable with an autocratic style which the countries you mentioned have succeeded under.

We should focus on strong private and public collaboration.

 

[peacemaker]

Watch. Anyone who wishes to understand the Systems of today

I've read many of Ha-joon Chang's books and have been thoroughly impressed with his views. You should check him out.

I knew of him when he was in the London school of economics , he is a new Keynesian, really no different than the old Keynesians except where Keynes denied mythology, they pretend they are not Keynesians, but he is in his Axioms

example: utility function : i prefer apples to oranges ( Austrian school praxeological method) simple utility function, either ordinal or cardinal function, i like this and dislike that, simple cardinal and ordinal , no mathematising subjective taste

Marshallian or neo classical economists like Keynesians or Milton Friedman Chicago/Fresh water School on the other hand : Utility function: I prefer apples to oranges 4.7 times = it means nothing, cannot mathematise everything,

Keynes never studied economics in full, he did one semester, of economics, and rest of his 4 years it was maths, his father was a disappointment Alfred Marshal founder of the Neo Classical Marshallian school trained Keynes s when his dad did not go beyond publishing a couple of journals and failed to grasp the field

thus in todays world, 99% of economists are mathematicians with no clue about about economics :

Praxeology, Axioms, or A Priories, hence why even their utility function is maths based; i prefer apples to oranges a function of Utley of 4.7 etc

they lack theorems, and are positivists, this is where that south Korean dude may seem like an economist but is clueless in praxeology, axioms and a priorty

imagine a sheikh who does not understand hadith and has not cilmi of Quran, qisas and Islamic theology but calls himself an economist because he can read the quran

these are all fancy words for how do we study economic phenomena, do we observe it? maths -positivism? do we live it? how do we know what is true anf flase

in other words, epistemological and ontologcial ways we study this thing we call economics,

this is why i dont read their books, waste of time to me, someone trained in Praxeology

All economic phenomena are Axiomatic by nature: Ceteris paribus when demand goes up, price goes up if supply remains the same or less than demand - a universal principle one cannot deny it

but how did i know that? Praxeology, Axioms, A Priories that cannot be denied

we dont deny maths, we use maths, 5+5=10, but we do not use maths to understand economics because we deal with humans, not machines, not planet, moon,

this is why i do not debate with these kids, they do not even have an axiom to shows me how socialism is corect

a man called Ludwig von Mises in 1918 one year after the Russian soviet take over sat down to write a book:

Economic calculation in the socialist commonwealth: Von Mises published 1920

he said they will fail and with in 75-80 years, it failed in 1991, 72 years afetr he sat down to write his book

they failed because they will consume the capital structure, communism or socialism doe snot create capital, it consumes it and once the Russian imperial built one is finished, soviet union will collapse

there is a joke, if communist/socialist took over the planet, they would leave one island to remain capitalist because they need free prices to gauge

socialism fails because it has no free prices, prices are like a traffic light signals and the state is forced by nature to die or become capitalist or a bastardised form of capitalism like cronyism because it suits the political structure nepotism system, but they need a free / free-yer prices

 

[peacemaker]

These guys here want socialism, yet are not aware in terms of praxeology, axioms and metholodygy, socialism is a very weak argument

its why its always abandoned

@Abaq you spoke of south east Asia

did you know these nations struggled with heavy commanding heights of the state and had to liberalise their economist and even sought IMF bail out die to massive debts of subsidising state owned or controlled assets

it seems tempting, but many people do not study the after affects', all the nations mentioned has to free up resources, as they went into debt supporting failing industries

south korea in 1982 had to make her industries free competing, state blocked new entrants even from her own nation to defend older industries, japan, china, etc

read this , its important we do not fall in love with state kick starting the economy, it will face terrible repercussion slater on

https://mises.org/wire/south-koreas-neo-mercantilist-growth-engine-has-stalled

South Korea’s Neo-Mercantilist Growth Engine Has Stalled​

 

[Periplus]

Stop it. Stop it.

Somalia wasn’t a pure form of capitalism because there was no free market. I know many people who died because their business was competing with the local warlords. Even now you can pay Shabaab to order a hit on your competition in many areas of the country.

The government of Somalia should be run like a business. Provide the space for a free market through a strong courts system and also allow anyone, no matter their qabiil to operate wherever in Somalia they want. Till then somalia isn’t a try capitalist State.

It was anarchy, that’s all.

Welfare state is a disastrous concept for Somalis. They are already are the biggest welfare queens in the West who provide absolutely no value to the economy but also they are one of the most dependent on remittance from family abroad.

Our number 1 priority should be to end the geeljire lifestyle and get women to work. I accept we need government schools to achieve this but beyond that the government should leave private sector to it.

If you read what I wrote, I said using Somalia was an example is a braindead argument.

I was comparing the stupidity of using Venezuela as an example of socialism by using an equally stupid example.

 

[Periplus]

@Periplus

That includes you dude read an economic book one or two then debate with me. I will not cure your nonsense regurgitation you heard on a champagne socialist YouTube channel

Want to hazard a guess at what I studied in university?

So yeah, I’ve read more than a book or two you absolute fucking retard.

As for champagne socialist, I do fit the description as my parents are comfortably middle-class but social ideals are beyond economics nowadays. It’s about justice and fairness.

 

[Coastal]

We need complete free markets.
Free market currency, unrestricted free trade and privatisation of all airports and seaports.

 

[peacemaker]

Want to hazard a guess at what I studied in university?

So yeah, I’ve read more than a book or two you absolute fucking retard.

As for champagne socialist, I do fit the description as my parents are comfortably middle-class but social ideals are beyond economics nowadays. It’s about justice and fairness.

Petulant child, i did say no none Absame should reply to me or quote me

your vulgar language just shows low IQ and emotional outburst,

instead of getting upset like little doocil, refute my ideas intellectually,

dont attack the person or swear if you are a grown up, attack his ideas

 

[peacemaker]

Want to hazard a guess at what I studied in university?

So yeah, I’ve read more than a book or two you absolute fucking retard.

As for champagne socialist, I do fit the description as my parents are comfortably middle-class but social ideals are beyond economics nowadays. It’s about justice and fairness.

Your lying, me and you and Dr Osman debated a while back, well it was me and Dr Osman and as per usual you kept barging in though you were were not invited,

when i realised you were clueless champagne socialist with a big mouth, i said i will not educate you and debate you at the same time kid

you lie about your basic bachelors economics degree, you Said you did not have an economics degree when we debated a while back as i said

but fine lets believe you have an economic degree, you are just force feed Australian style typical Keynesian nonsense , did they teach you at uni inflation is at 2% is good but not 2.1% or 1.9%?

do not use @Sheikh Google and answer the following basic econ 101 , actually feel free to use google, i want natural sounding answer and if you use google you will be exposed as your sentences will be too "academic"

1) Which economists blew the Philips curve out of water and showed not just methodological weakness but axiomatic and A Priory inconsistencies? (Hint: one of them won the Noble prize in economics)

2) What is the Cantillon effect? and how is this related to The Mississippi bubble

3) What causes Gresham's Law ?

4) Explain the Economic Diamond-water Paradox &

5) What is Subject Marginal utility & which economists wrote about it first?

6) was marginal subject utility discovered or invented?

7) How Did Adam Smith and his labour marginal utility theory mislead Marx and His Dialectic of surplus capital and what were the consequences of this wrong theorem?

8) How Did Von Hayek's Decentralisation Of Money & Information inspire Bitcoins creator Satoshi ?( source below on 3rd box)

9) Why is the Keynesians utility Function so useless and out of touch with reality? (hint, you can cheat, i wrote about it yesterday on this forum)

10) Who discovered Time Preference Theory and explain to me how it shows fractional reserve banking causes economic depressions, Mal investments and the boom and bust cycle?

11) Which school of thought is the true grandfather of all modern day economic schools of thought and what century were they around (hint the Muslims gave them the philosophical and methodological frame works for their school)

to me your like a bug with a loud mouth who thinks he knows something because you watched a few CNN clips where they attacking the free market

you claim to have studied a bachelors degree, those questions are basic 101 econ,

answer them, if you cannot answer them, lick my Cagdheer feet, dont reply or quote me again, i specifically said only an Absame can reply to me on this thread and some one who has a degree in econ, so show us your cilmi

use google if you want, i want to see if you are a real economist or just a clueless Keynesian kid force fed with a diet of Keynesian aggregate demand and supply and state sanction artificial stimulus

dont worry, i was force fed Keynesian crap too once, until the Von Mises School adopted me and cleansed me by sheer serendipity ,

answer my questions please

 

[peacemaker]

I eat pretentious champagne communists like you for breakfast

i am sick and tired of clueless communist want to be who espouse socialism and communistic ideas pretenting be intellectuals when they are clueless about this field,

soclaisim/communism murdered 200 million people on earth, you electric card riving, spoilt brats who have benefited from free market and capitalism cut of your noses to spite your faces,


hypocrites of the worse kind, nothing worse than a champagne socialist