reer
VIP
are you really comparing sahaba council to having khat addicts choose rulers/governments?
Socialism for Somalia? Would You Support It?
- Thread starter Muslim?
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are you really comparing sahaba council to having khat addicts choose rulers/governments?
After a heated discussion between the Ansar and Muhajirun sahaba in saqeefa it was settled that Abu Bakr RA would be the calip of the ummah and Omar RA in the next day announced in the mosque of the new caliph and persuaded the people to pay their allegiance to the Amir al Mu'minin and they have done so.
Yikes talk about strawmen. Do you have some complex from europeans/whites? Cars and planes are western innovations is that Kufr too
The default is something is halal let alone kufr.
>>Voting is usually haram not kufr and can be applied at times under certain conditions…
Not khariji but you have tendencies of a toxic muqalid the kind that makes people uneasy when they hear Sh.Muqbil and Sh.Rabee. Do you enjoy lectures from Abu Khadeejah by any chance?
If you cant explain an idea past “well I have the scholars” but are also too cowardly to say “there is ijma” then you are not knowledgeable enough to propagate that idea.
Omar del Sur
VIP
it's that it's an imitation of the West. it is very clearly Westernization. and the cars argument is... silly. the cars isn't the dīn nor the system of rule.
Okay, if you have a problem with Sheikh Muqbil and Rabee Madkhali, I listed a bunch of other scholars who are opposed to democracy, this isn't something specific to them.
No, I don't listen to Abu Khadeejah and I'm against him. I'm not going by SPUBS.
Ummm... all the big scholars are against democracy. I'm not saying it's an ijma because I think of ijma as involving the classical scholars. The classical scholars didn't really talk about this issue as it's more of a modern issue. You're being unnecessarily aggressive and inserting all sort if ad hominem type stuff.... "I am a type who makes people uneasy" "cowardly"....
I mean look, none of the scholars are pro-democracy. Some of the scholars have held the opinion that voting is permissible in certain situations. Ok. And yet even these scholars you mention are all against democracy as a system of government.
You object to my saying democracy is kufr. Yes, it is kufr. Sheikh Muqbil has explained it better than I can. You have some kind of thing against Sheikh Muqbil, maybe. You object to calling it kufr. Ok, even if we don't call it kufr, all the scholars that I've cited and all the scholars you've cited are opposed to democracy as a system of government.
There's no reason for you to keep making it an issue and honestly I'm done debating you here on this. All the big scholars are against, none of the real scholars are in favor it. If going by what the scholars are saying is cowardly, I guess I'm cowardly. I go by the scholars, not by what random people on SomaliSpot say. And I agree with Sheikh Muqbil that it's kufr. No, I am not doing taqlid of him- I've studied what he said on the topic and I agree with him. Even Sheikh Fawzan has referred to the doctrine of popular sovereignty- which is a core part of democracy- as being kufr. Islamqa.org (I have mixed feelings about that site but I agree with a lot of it) says it's kufr.
It isn't just a Sheikh Muqbil view or a "Madkhali" view. But even if you think it's the end of the world if I agree with the great Sheikh Muqbil and I agree with him rather than some guy on SomaliSpot- all the real scholars are opposed to democracy. So I'm done with this discussion, there is no reason to debate any further. It isn't a debate. It's like a person being very insistent that not all triangles have three angles and claiming some have four.
Muslims should support a genuinely Islamic political system that's neither democracy or dictatorship
