Socialism for Somalia? Would You Support It?

[Muslim?]

What do you guys think about this? Would you support it?

Somalia's economic problems today are:
1: Huge wealth gap, made worse by the reality that what little of money there is, 5b GDP, is concentrated in small hands. In socialism, all work places would be made so that there are no wages. Instead, you take what you produce, since as a worker you will be a part owner of the business (socialism being at it's core making the working class the owners). This will eliminate the owner class in somalia. This concept is called the worker co-op, where people put together money, allowing for a large capital a single worker wouldn't have reached; they work the business and vote democratically on managerial decisions. At the end, you, as a worker/owner take the fruits of your labour. Say you produce $20k worth of value in somalia today. Your boss takes 15k (the surplus) and pays you a wage of 5k. You're ripped off because in reality you don't need a boss/capitalist owner. You can put together money with your fellows, start the business and work it. But also the nation, a third world one btw, with barely any realized wealth to go around, has no wealth gap. You can think of it instead of making 5k sallary, you make 20k.

2: Today the unemployment rate is too high. Well, socialism is the one economic model that has historically had the lowest unemployment rate. In fact, in most of Cuba, it was close to none.

3: Today, critical public infrastructure is for profit. Education, healthcare, food, water, shelter, etc... In socialism, market forces like profit incentives are removed and schools become free, food is affordable, housing is easy, etc... The basics for life become non-profit. Any fees charged will be to maintain.

These three economic changes would help somalia in my opinion. Back in Siyad's government, we had something similar, with barely any wealth gap, super low unemployment rate, higher satisfaction as well as the needs for a dignified life being affordable for all.

What do you think btw? Let's keep the discussion healthy.

For those who don't know, here's a video on what's socialism.

 

[bidenkulaha]

The Somali people are free and entrepreneurial. We should never return to the horrors of socialism.

The only thing the government should provide is education and security. Maybe add government hospitals to that. But even then there should be private schools and private healthcare to compete with

 

[GemState]

It's the opposite, We need a government that caters to capital owners and is interested only in yearly GDP growth rates. Run Somalia like a business.

 

[NordicSomali]

socialism is lazy

 

[InaShaqalle]

Not socialism but a social market economy brought about by a moderate, economically centre left government would be the best outcome for our Somalia

I'd like there to be progressive taxation for both individuals and corporations, state ownership of natural utilities and also full economic integration with the entire Horn of Africa

 

[Dalalos_ibn_Adali]

I agree that the west have moved capitalist system abroad while they have kept their countries socialist.

 

[Dalalos_ibn_Adali]

The Somali people are free and entrepreneurial. We should never return to the horrors of socialism.

The only thing the government should provide is education and security. Maybe add government hospitals to that. But even then there should be private schools and private healthcare to compete with

I agree with you the kacaan and its scientific socialism was utter shit, SYL socialism was a little bit better, it was sort of socialism by name only.

 

[Laagite]

The Somali people are free and entrepreneurial. We should never return to the horrors of socialism.

The only thing the government should provide is education and security. Maybe add government hospitals to that. But even then there should be private schools and private healthcare to compete with

There are no real government owned school except some universaties.

 

[OGx3]

Somalis back home are lazy enough as it is without socialism. Need capitalistic society that rewards hardwork , this is hampered by corruption. How many young talented folks have been killed because they disrupt market with innovation and threaten established businesses. We also have to many people who think manual labor is beneath them but are quick to pick up phone and beg family out west who are breaking their backs at amazon warehouses and driving trucks.

government should provide law and order, infrastructure, and school systems. we also need federal banking system so people can get loans for housing and business

 

[peacemaker]

clueless Champagne socialist kids who think socialism is the answer to all

perhaps yall should move to north Korea or Cuba or Venezuela

Champagne socialist who enjoy the frits of capitalism but attack it on a daily basis

free market capitalism and free trade is a god given right,

remember, do not be confused with what we have in the west and most other nations: cronyism

people confuse cronyism for capitalism , its not the same, what we have is nepotism

i actually wish we had capitalism! no too big to fail firms, no bail outs, lower/no income tax, no subsidies, no taking from Hassan and giving to Hussein through state stealing and no tariffs or barriers to trade which makes our living standard superior an richer

please get education before you attack capitalism,

attacking capitalism is akin to shooting yourself in the foot

do not reply to me, not here to educate you and the same time debate your ignorant asses

read a book or two and if you love socialism so much, fly one way ticket to North Korea please

 

[Periplus]

Islamic-inspired Social Democracy would be the dream for Somalia.

Imagine Norway but having Islam as the state religion.

 

[Periplus]

clueless Champagne socialist kids who think socialism is the answer to all

perhaps yall should move to north Korea or Cuba or Venezuela

Champagne socialist who enjoy the frits of capitalism but attack it on a daily basis

free market capitalism and free trade is a god given right,

remember, do not be confused with what we have in the west and most other nations: cronyism

people confuse cronyism for capitalism , its not the same, what we have is nepotism

i actually wish we had capitalism! no too big to fail firms, no bail outs, lower/no income tax, no subsidies, no taking from Hassan and giving to Hussein through state stealing and no tariffs or barriers to trade which makes our living standard superior an richer

please get education before you attack capitalism,

attacking capitalism is akin to shooting yourself in the foot

do not reply to me, not here to educate you and the same time debate your ignorant asses

read a book or two and if you love socialism so much, fly one way ticket to North Korea please

That's like saying if you like capitalism so much, take a time machine back to 1990s Somalia where anarchy was the law of the land.

You can ask any economist, around a decade ago Somalia was the perfect example of a pure capitalist society.

But anarchy =/= capitalism, just as much as socialism =/= authoritarianism. This post was an example of someone using your braindead logic against you in the hope that you recognised the glaring fault in your polemic.

 

[bidenkulaha]

That's like saying if you like capitalism so much, take a time machine back to 1990s Somalia where anarchy was the law of the land.

You can ask any economist, around a decade ago Somalia was the perfect example of a pure capitalist society.

But anarchy =/= capitalism, just as much as socialism =/= authoritarianism. This post was an example of someone using your braindead logic against you in the hope that you recognised the glaring fault in your polemic.

Stop it. Stop it.

Somalia wasn’t a pure form of capitalism because there was no free market. I know many people who died because their business was competing with the local warlords. Even now you can pay Shabaab to order a hit on your competition in many areas of the country.

The government of Somalia should be run like a business. Provide the space for a free market through a strong courts system and also allow anyone, no matter their qabiil to operate wherever in Somalia they want. Till then somalia isn’t a try capitalist State.

It was anarchy, that’s all.

Welfare state is a disastrous concept for Somalis. They are already are the biggest welfare queens in the West who provide absolutely no value to the economy but also they are one of the most dependent on remittance from family abroad.

Our number 1 priority should be to end the geeljire lifestyle and get women to work. I accept we need government schools to achieve this but beyond that the government should leave private sector to it.

 

[Abaq]

While I may disagree with my neoliberal cousin @peacemaker (after all I am a firm believer of the developmental state), I agree with his general disdain for socialism. The state should definitely control the commanding heights fo the economy (utilities, rail etc) not because of socialism but simple service delivery and to make it easier and cheaper for private enterprises to operate and beat the international competition (China gives its factories next to free utilities so they can outcompete the international competition). The state should cooperate with private enterprise rather than compete with it.

 

[InaShaqalle]

free markets =/= capitalism

 

[Muslim?]

free markets =/= capitalism

This is so true. Look at the US, the finest example of what capitalism does.
It's a market so dominated by giant corporations that the entrepreneurial pipe dream is to be bought by Google. How laughable. The idea is to compete. But it turns out to be hoping for a buy out. Every week there's a giant billion-dollar merger/acquisition happening.

Then there's their democracy. Somalia's democracy sucks because it's an infant democracy. We're a people figuring it out just now. The US democracy has no excuse to be so corrupt, with millions of people having no impact--but few billionaires and BOOM! Congress is so excited to have a "Debate" about it and eventually reach a predictable conclusion.

Putting economics aside, Socialism's core motivation is the idea we can do better than capitalism. I honestly believe that, and as somalis we could certainly experiment to come up with new systems that fix the failings of 20th century capitalism.

 

[Muslim?]

clueless Champagne socialist kids who think socialism is the answer to all

perhaps yall should move to north Korea or Cuba or Venezuela

Champagne socialist who enjoy the frits of capitalism but attack it on a daily basis

free market capitalism and free trade is a god given right,

remember, do not be confused with what we have in the west and most other nations: cronyism

people confuse cronyism for capitalism , its not the same, what we have is nepotism

i actually wish we had capitalism! no too big to fail firms, no bail outs, lower/no income tax, no subsidies, no taking from Hassan and giving to Hussein through state stealing and no tariffs or barriers to trade which makes our living standard superior an richer

please get education before you attack capitalism,

attacking capitalism is akin to shooting yourself in the foot

do not reply to me, not here to educate you and the same time debate your ignorant asses

read a book or two and if you love socialism so much, fly one way ticket to North Korea please

This is at best an emotion fueled rant. You seem to be thinking of describing socialism but you're actually perfectly summing up capitalism--and its horrific failures.

 

[peacemaker]

While I may disagree with my neoliberal cousin @peacemaker (after all I am a firm believer of the developmental state), I agree with his general disdain for socialism. The state should definitely control the commanding heights fo the economy (utilities, rail etc) not because of socialism but simple service delivery and to make it easier and cheaper for private enterprises to operate and beat the international competition (China gives its factories next to free utilities so they can outcompete the international competition). The state should cooperate with private enterprise rather than compete with it.

cousin the phrase commanding heights comes from a phrase by Lenin when he banned money and free trade and free market and starved and killed several million and forcefully took away their crops and lands. Peasants. Not aristocratics. Peasants freed from
Serfdom in 1860s

So after Mullins starved and died of hunger ,so he allowed free trade and money and ownership and exclaimed commanding heights like copper. Aluminium. Oil. Gas big super power industry should be state domain and sadly Stalin when he took over two years after Lenin and his new deal decided to end the experiment due to Lenin dying Stalin banned money and free trade and ownership of even small land and killed and starved millions of farmers and peasants and city folks

Yeager wrote an amazing book called commanding heights and a really nice three part documentary was made in early 2000 by PBS Frontline

I will post it here Insha Allah. Watch it please. It explains why states owning and controlling so called commanding heights brings in massive corruption. Nepotism and inefficiencies as state actors compete for it just like in Russia that made the oligarchs rise and rape Russia.

so the ideas of Frederick vonHayek and John Keynes battle out thru ideas

Keynes wa star darling of states obsessed with commanding heights ideas and encouraged America. Britain and many other democratic nations.

hayek warned it will lead failures. Inefficiencies and corruption as actors seek state rent seeking as it’s better than free market comeptiton

@Removed is one of the few people I have seen in here who has a really good logical critical thinking skills and can see through the BS - he is a clear headed thinker. Ignore these kids and their parting bro

China is a seeing a huge internal fight over commanding heights. Xi vs Former leader who left power in 2003 zheng

the rise of the princely ha in China has allowed the sons and grandsons of China ccp founders have carved out the nation. No one can start a big business with out their cut and nepotism

careful what you wish for bro please. You might be future Ogadeniya or Jubbaland minister or president Insha Allah one day. It’s my duty to educate you.

America and Britain and many eu nations almost went bankrupt from 1945-1980 due to commanding heights Keynesian believes but von hayak was right he said it will come crushing. And bleed the state with debt and inefficiencies

Labour Party in the UK nearly killed British economy with commanding heights

watch the 3 part documentary. Best ducu that explains the economic systems of the world

China has huge debts now and assume corruption. Because those commanding heights have to be ruled by a person when owned by the state

I want to make sure all future potential Absame leaders are educated. I don’t care for these other champagne socialist kids who want to eats my time. But it’s my duty to correct a cousin of mine least it one day harms the Absame race in case they get into politics

economics is my domain that me when I say commanding heights creates nothing but spoilt ineffective industries protected from competition with tariffs and thus a burden to consumers and tax payers

if you wish to rob from Peter and give to Paul that is what commanding heights state owned industries really are

My qualification for this because Somalis are known to chat nonsense for topics they do not know about: I don’t want to boast but one of the leading free market Austrian experts on Time Preference Theorem as well as Islamic Time preference theorem

 

[peacemaker]

This is at best an emotion fueled rant. You seem to be thinking of describing socialism but you're actually perfectly summing up capitalism--and its horrific failures.

hahahahha @Removed this is why I said to these kids don’t quote me because I am not here to educate you and debate with you at the same time boys

I once debated an MP for 1 and half hours. He wanted to ban a famous supermarket not to sell pharmacy goods as a female who lobbied him with contributions wanted the sol monopoly in that area

I debated him saying how good competition was for consumers as the supermarket will force the only pharmacy there to lower prices

after everyone left. He said to me : you h man you are right 100%. I only support her because I want to win the next general election in my seat. She contributes to my campaign

me and a friend smiled and said your cronyism will be confused for capitalism

I went home smiling. Ages ago like over a decade. I was a kid but by then had discovered the Austrian school which cleaned the Keynesian’s crap I was taught at uni

kid. You are clueless and I have a rule in life. Two rules

I never debate anyone with no critical thinking skills or common sense

and I never educate and debate at the same time. Don’t quote me again please or waste my time.

i understand the Frankfurt school has taken over universities in the west and indoctrinated you with their critical culture and race theory nonsense and told you capitalism is evil.

read a few books on the topic then come back to me Insha Allah

Call me from North Korea. Until then your champagne socialist and clueless hypocrite who takes sometime that has lifted billions from mass poverty: capitalism. Free market free trade spins money capitalism with limited or no state nepotism or too big to dial or state subsidies to a chosen few favourite state linked friends.

 

[peacemaker]

While I may disagree with my neoliberal cousin @peacemaker (after all I am a firm believer of the developmental state), I agree with his general disdain for socialism. The state should definitely control the commanding heights fo the economy (utilities, rail etc) not because of socialism but simple service delivery and to make it easier and cheaper for private enterprises to operate and beat the international competition (China gives its factories next to free utilities so they can outcompete the international competition). The state should cooperate with private enterprise rather than compete with it.

I am not a neo liberal bro.

more of a libertarian conservative.

as an Absame full red blooded male. I want Islamic. I want females covered up. Marriage. Adam and Eve

not Adam and Steve nonsense

and Islamic sharia is a must.

We are Muslims and don’t do this nonsense neoliberal or liberal crap.

economically: libertarian. Free trade. Free market capitalism. State should never ever pick winners or losers or steal from Hassan and give to Hussain through subsidies and nepotism.

low taxes. Consumer choice. Competition. Let entrepreneurs start a business with out needing the presidents nephew or his mistress in other words the state should not impede me from creating value for customers. Let the consumer either buy from me or not

free property rights. And sounds money. In the United States Constitutional and Nabi Mohamed both said use gold and silver as money spins money not fiat money whether the state can print Willy nilly and kill pensions through a tax called inflation as they are on fixed income

economically libertarian. Von Hayak. Von Mises. Cantillion. Rothbard. Austrian school

socially : Islamic / conservative. Classic Absame Tawhiid and Hadith and sunnah. No Sufi nonsense that is for central Somalia clans

Kids. don’t quote me unless

Only someone from my race can reply to me. Absame only. Rest of y’all I don’t have the energy to Educate you and debate with your snotty nonsense
It’s a waste of my time.

@Periplus

That includes you dude read an economic book one or two then debate with me. I will not cure your nonsense regurgitation you heard on a champagne socialist YouTube channel