Remembering the Isaaq Genocide

[Karim]

@Susa the single most destructive bombing raid in human history happened to Tokyo, Japan in 1945 (Not the Nukes).

It flattened 45km² leaving 100k killed and over 1 Million homeless.

Please understand my point here, Tokyo had 4 Million residents in 1945 but lost 100k civlians to those devastating raids perpetrated by the Americans. How can small cities of Burco and Hargeisa with combined populations of 250k suffer 200k deaths by aerial bombardments?!! Ask yourself that question. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Dharbash]

Selaanyo is also war criminals, he killed many people in Kalshaale and In Sool and SSC.
Muse Biixi handraab killed many people in Borome Awdal.
Should be brought to justice.

We did the same to the Isaaqs and ethiopian troops in Kalshaale, a single sub of Ahmed garaad mostly as well. Stop with this victim narrative, it’s so embarrassing to want to be a victim when we weren’t. Discuss real issues instead of pushing a lie.

 

[AutumnBreeze]

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I'm more inclined to believe the high estimates considering how horribly destroyed Hargeisa, Burco, and Berbera were by late 1988.


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And that the government forces would target random people, gather them, and then proceed to kill them afterward.


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Target killings combined with the aerial bombardment, it's no surprise the death toll could be 200k or even higher.

There died 500 civilians or less. Im heavily leaning towards or less.
Those are 10-30bodies you showed.If you say 200k perished then be prepared to show ten thousand times more than that. If you believe 50k , be prepared to show 5thousand times more. If you believe 10k died, show me 1000 times more bodies than that. What are their names and their susbsubsub clan's? Provide for me 10k names and their subsubsub clans.

Kacaan did to isaaq whatever they did to MJ. Oppressive, unjust, dictatorial ..maybe. but it was not clan cleansing. So to say that a government suppressing Rebel groups Killed more people than Agents of Ethnic cleansing whose sole objective was to mass murder as much as possible, is simply nonesense.

 

[Sloane Ranger]

@Susa
Saxib thats truly disturbing, please put in spoilers.

 

[Vanessa]

We should have a remembrance for MJ genocide.

 

[Som]

AUN to all Innocent somali victims. Let's forgive each other and move forward.
The average somali has nothing against Isaaqs and condemns what happened.
The only responsible people are governement officials (including Somalilanders ones) who perpetrated violence against civilians. They will be punished in akhira

 

[Som]

Let's also remember all the darood people ( marehan in particular) who were ethnically cleansed in Mogadishu

 

[Omar del Sur]

Wow!! Your ranted about one word I called you for 16 paragraphs. You need to calm yourself bro, anonymous online forums like this one are destined to attract all kinds of degenerate freaks who promote apostasy and Zina, but not all of us promote such filthy western ideals. There will always be bad apples in the basket.

The only reason I called you Sheikh is that I thought you were well versed in the religion or at least have good knowledge about it to some extent considering how you mostly post threads in that section. I'm religious myself, hafiz and former Imam of a Masjid. Sometimes I post threads in that section too.

My issue with your thread here is the way you phrased about that incident.

You said "I think it is extremely important that all Muslims and all people be in solidarity with the Isaaq clan". It's true that the Isaaq clan was attacked by the regime of the former somali dictator Siad Barre, but there's nothing special about that incident considering how this same dictator attacked other Somali clans like My tribe Majeerteen. The casualties of both atrocities committed by that regime are quite similar tbh, but you don't see us crying on International TVs and vowing to divide the country.

There are Somali clans who suffered triple the damage of what the Isaaqs have suffered. For instance: Rahanwayn, they're numerous Somali clan that reside in Bay and Bakool regions of Southern Somalia. SNF and USC tribal factions fought over their region and eventually slaughtered the local Rahanwayn populations killing 250,000 in the peak years of the civil war 1991-1993. Have you ever heard of Rahanwayn SJW groups mourning and weeping on international TVs about this genocide?! No. The Darood tribe have also suffered countless genocides during the civil war but you don't see us crying about it. It's all politics my friend.

I understand you're not well versed with this specific incident considering your Mexican identity but WE ARE. Genuine Somalis with greater knowledge about history get repulsed when their hear such dishonest cries of the Isaaqs about this incident. The Isaaq clan regularly invite international TVs to videotape their women crying and further their own political agenda.

If your information about the incident is minimal or almost nonexistent then don't post about it. It will create more division and false assertions by the Isaaq members on this forum.

you calling me a Sheikh is not the point or really the subject of the post. I have multiple times been perceived as some kind of particularly religious person on here. I suppose I am uncomfortable with being perceived like that.

you're not even the first person to call me a Sheikh

My nigga @Omar del Sur finishes after 5 seconds then divorces his wife for complaining about it. Silly wetback sheikh kkkkkkkkk

and I do think the forum is..... I do not have a positive view of it. It is true that it's anonymous but this is the only forum I've been on where I've experienced the level of racism I've experienced here.

I used to want to promote Islam on here and I have given up on that.

as for the subject matter of the OP, I stand by everything I said except the comment about north should be free. that I think I should not have said. but everything else I am one hundred percent behind it.

is it fake? I do not believe it is fake. are people lying about what happened to them? I don't believe so.

therefore, I consider that everything I said in OP is one hundred percent valid except the bit saying the north should be free as I think it was a mistake to say something political.

as for the Isaaq..... I honestly don't want to get political. I wanted to help spread information, I do not think the information is fake, people can examine the information and decide for themselves.

no way should anyone's view of the issue be influenced by perception of me.

I think Isaaq are entitled to promote awareness and to decide what course of action they want to take and follow through with it, regardless of what anyone says.

myself, I stand by the op but the subject is out of my hands. (also I do use a lot of paragraphs but the paragraphs are thin)

 

[Som]

And let's also remember a very IMPORTANT FACT.
Former Siad Barre officals were welcomed by SNM and USC for qabil reasons.
Dahir Riyale Kahin former president of Somalia was head of the secret service in Berbera, arresting and killing opposition members was precisely the job of the secret service.
Unfortunately all somali factions are qabilists, if this was about politics SL, PL and USC would have arrested any politician who served under Siad Barre , but instead they welcomed then because it was a clan rebellion and nothing else.
When Siad Barre left Xamar ,USC even asked Hassan Kulmiye Afrah(number 2 of the somali regime ) to join them just because he was also Hawiye. That's crazy, the same political group who complained about Siad's oppression offered a position in the group to a key politician of the former governement that was killing them.

 

[Sloane Ranger]

@Omar del Sur this is a very sensitive matter for all Somalis not only Isaaqs. No-one was spared during the civil war and everyone knows of a family member that was murdered during the war.

Bringing up secession is not appropriate in this matter as it goes against the principles of muslim unity. May Allah grant mercy and jannah to all the victims.

 

[Som]

Simple question who do you consider being faqaash ?

Unfortunately any Marehan or Darood is labeled faqash by some extremists.

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Omar del Sur this is a very sensitive matter for all Somalis not only Isaaqs. No-one was spared during the civil war and everyone knows of a family member that was murdered during the war.

Bringing up secession is not appropriate in this matter as it goes against the principles of muslim unity. May Allah grant mercy and jannah to all the victims.

Yes I think I was wrong to make the north should be free comment. however, I do agree with everything else I said in OP.

 

[Sloane Ranger]

Yes I think I was wrong to make the north should be free comment. however, I do agree with everything else I said in OP.

Thanks for the clarification. I don't have an issue with the rest of your statements.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Thanks for the clarification. I don't have an issue with the rest of your statements.

JazakAllahkhair

 

[TabK]

Let me get this straight. The bombardments and most of the assault took place in Hargeisa and Burco. Do you know the combined populations of those two cities in 1988?! 250k. Are you saying the regime killed the entire populations of those two cities?! Bombardments happen all the time in warzones... The picture you posted is one bungalow Villa probably devastated by the aerial bombardments but it's one small house in the city, the adjacent houses could have been fully intact with zero damages whatsoever. Wikipedia can be edited easily, I know members on this forum who edit Wikipedia topics to match their own narratives. Don't fall for their trap.

Firstly, Hargeisa's population was not 250k, where did you get that number from?

Hargeisa's population was was double that, 500,000 people according to the 1968 estimate, so presumably more by 1988:

Source: US Department of State:

Africa, Problems & Prospects

books.google.com

Aerial bombardment fully flattened the city, it was not isolated to a few homes. Official reports by foreign diplomatic staff states 14,000 houses were fully destroyed and further 12,000 heavily damaged. The destruction was very widespread.

If you take into account that the aerial bombardment was accompanied by ground shelling, and the fact that even fleeing refugees were strafed by Somali Airforce up until the Ethiopian border. Then the fact that more than 1,000,000 landmines were planted by the Somali army throughout Isaaq territories, particularly inside residential homes, suddenly the 200k figure looks like an underestimate. The conflict resulted in the largest forced movement of people recorded in Africa and created the largest refugee camp in the world.

No other place was devastated as much as SL. Bringing up Raxanweyn is an entirely separate discussion as it was killing that happened between Somali clans, which always happened throughout Somali history.

But when the discussion is about crimes committed by the state, nothing comes close to the campaign against the Isaaq. This is a fact.

 

[Karim]

Firstly, Hargeisa's population was not 250k, where did you get that number from?

Hargeisa's population was was double that, 500,000 people according to the 1968 estimate, so presumably more by 1988:
View attachment 144138

Source: US Department of State:

Africa, Problems & Prospects

books.google.com

Aerial bombardment fully flattened the city, it was not isolated to a few homes. Official reports by foreign diplomatic staff states 14,000 houses were fully destroyed and further 12,000 heavily damaged. The destruction was very widespread.

If you take into account that the aerial bombardment was accompanied by ground shelling, and the fact that even fleeing refugees were strafed by Somali Airforce up until the Ethiopian border. Then the fact that more than 1,000,000 landmines were planted by the Somali army throughout Isaaq territories, particularly inside residential homes, suddenly the 200k figure looks like an underestimate. The conflict resulted in the largest forced movement of people recorded in Africa and created the largest refugee camp in the world.

No other place was devastated as much as SL. Bringing up Raxanweyn is an entirely separate discussion as it was killing that happened between Somali clans, which always happened throughout Somali history.

But when the discussion is about crimes committed by the state, nothing comes close to the campaign against the Isaaq. This is a fact.

YOU ARE FALSE.
Hargeisa's population in 2005 UNDP report was 500k. You can find the attached PDF report below.

Don't post BASELESS numbers out of thin air without concrete prove. 14,000 homes destroyed kulahaa where's the proof?! This is exactly how all of you Jeegans argue about the incident stuffing it with propagated and over exaggerated LIES.

 

[TabK]

YOU ARE FALSE.
Hargeisa's population in 2005 UNDP report was 500k. You can find the attached PDF report below.

Don't post BASELESS numbers out of thin air without concrete prove. 14,000 homes destroyed kulahaa where's the proof?! This is exactly how all of you Jeegans argue about the incident stuffing it with propagated and over exaggerated LIES.

I asked you where you got the 250k in 1988 from. Do you have a source on that?

I have attached a source from the US Department of State for the 1968 estimates.

With regards to 14,000 homes destroyed and 12,000 damaged, you probably had no idea, but these are the figures that the Kacaan government itself reported, and is likely a massive underestimate:

 

[Hared]

I honestly believe isaacs and other somalis are not the same people, the differences are just to
glaring to be continually ignored. Isaacs are reer banu israel period, other somalis derive their
lineage from arabs at that level their ilma adeers. The isaac were converted to islam long time ago.
That much abouth their history they shoukd acknowledge and decide on the way forward.
The hatred between them and the somalis is inherent, and i would like other somalis to accept the
fact that the isaacs dont like you period, so please let them go.

 

[DalsanJubiland]

We did the same to the Isaaqs and ethiopian troops in Kalshaale, a single sub of Ahmed garaad mostly as well. Stop with this victim narrative, it’s so embarrassing to want to be a victim when we weren’t. Discuss real issues instead of pushing a lie.

Shame on you not honoring the victims.
Where as SNM/Isaaq are chasing low Level soldier Like Tuke around world claiming he killed somebody with no evidence. Whereas War criminals Selaanyo, Bixi and Kaahin as Mujaahid.
Really shame

 

[DalsanJubiland]

@Susa the single most destructive bombing raid in human history happened to Tokyo, Japan in 1945 (Not the Nukes).

It flattened 45km² leaving 100k killed and over 1 Million homeless.

Please understand my point here, Tokyo had 4 Million residents in 1945 but lost 100k civlians to those devastating raids perpetrated by the Americans. How can small cities of Burco and Hargeisa with combined populations of 250k suffer 200k deaths by aerial bombardments?!! Ask yourself that question. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

A
Is All PS