Protests break out in Egypt

[Zak12]

Were not on the same page and we never will be

These conversations are a waste of time, you guys will never change your views on Kacaan because hes darod, you dont give two shits about what he did and how it affected the wider somali people, you dont care about researching his leadership in depth either

Let me just ask you something, what sub of darod are you ?

Talk about going nuclear dude

Yeah I agree this topic is pointless to have a convo with, no nuance is allowed I guess

 

[Guure⁸]

Ik but you're darod, you would rather commit seppuku than admit he was a bad leader and the reason were arguing right now

I'm daarod and I don't like siyad, daarod were massacred under his rule too

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Talk about going nuclear dude

Yeah I agree this topic is pointless to have a convo with, no nuance is allowed I guess

By quoting Lt khalifa you proved my point

All these sources arent your own research it comes from fkders on twitter, and the fact that youre being arrogant debating it staunchly like you have cilmi and wont admit you lack knowledge makes it worse

For example I bet all those sources @Saleh dropped will just be ignored because he was of the opposite opinion, if I had to give you one advice when debating, it would be to take knowledge from anyone and not be ashamed to admit you're ignorant, even those youre debating against can increase your knowledge and understanding of the topic

Learn from Plato

 

[Barkhadle1520]

I'm daarod and I don't like siyad, daarod were massacred under his rule too

I know he xasuqed Mj as well but most people dont know that history, even I learned it recently

But unlike other clans one of his most loyal generals were Mj so their legacy makes it easily overlooked

 

[Zak12]

All these sources arent your own research

I'm only a layman when it comes to this topic so of course I will drop sources from others. With that said I also did some research myself and mostly came to the same conclusion: Barre was a highly flawed but ultimately decent leader that Somalia needed at the time.

dropped will just be ignored because he was of the opposite opinion,

His main argument boiled down to "hurr Kacaan needed foreign funding" as if every country doesn't do that starting out.

even those youre debating against can grow your knowledge

No need to lecture me, I already got humbled by others like @Idilinaa when I was first posting on this site.

 

[Saleh]

His main argument boiled down to "hurr Kacaan needed foreign funding" as if every country doesn't do that starting out.

You credited kacaan for infrastructure projects and I proved they built none of them, thus making your point obsolete. Bros tryna save face

For example I bet all those sources @Saleh dropped will just be ignored because he was of the opposite opinion, if I had to give you one advice when debating, it would be to take knowledge from anyone and not be ashamed to admit you're ignorant, even those youre debating against can increase your knowledge and understanding of the topic

There is no convincing these people how can you expect objectivity and fairness from the same people who revere the likes of aw jamac and idaajaa

 

[Barkhadle1520]

No need to lecture me, I already got humbled by others like @Idilinaa when I was first posting on this site.

This is why debating on deen matters is avoided in Islam for laymen

I'm only a layman when it comes to this topic so of course I will drop sources from others. With that said I also did some research myself and mostly came to the same conclusion: Barre was a highly flawed but ultimately decent leader that Somalia needed at the time.

You clearly didnt do enough research then cause your whole arguments were based on his sources and reasoning, I suggest going on wikileaks and CIA archives to start off, theres also videos on youtube of civil war vets and many people who lived around that give their testimonies but this book is a pretty good overview and introduction into this period

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-servic...ountryst00metz_0/somaliacountryst00metz_0.pdf

I personally dont save what I read on kacaan everything I know I just remember reading it, im not very interested in this period of history

 

[Saleh]

I know he xasuqed Mj as well but most people dont know that history, even I learned it recently

But unlike other clans one of his most loyal generals were Mj so their legacy makes it easily overlooked

He killed MJ, killed Ogaden, shelled Hawiye homes in xamar, signed away NFD, signed away galbeed, everyone in the end turned against him except his reer dini clan and dhulbahante. Still Darood will look you dead in the eye and say this man was a hero

 

[Zak12]

You credited kacaan for infrastructure projects and I proved they built none of them

"Umm ackchyually it was Chinese workers and funding that built the GERD so Ethiopia wasn't responsible"

On today's new episode of Somalispot, the user Saleh discovers Africans require foreign assistance for major projects.

 

[Zak12]

This is why debating on deen matters is avoided in Islam for laymen

You clearly didnt do enough research then cause your whole arguments were based on his sources and reasoning, I suggest going on wikileaks and CIA archives to start off, theres also videos on youtube of civil war vets and many people who lived around that give their testimonies but this book is a pretty good overview and introduction into this period

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-servic...ountryst00metz_0/somaliacountryst00metz_0.pdf

I personally dont save what I read on kacaan everything I know I just remember reading it, im not very interested in this period of history

Okay I'll do that, twitter is still a good source however

 

[Barkhadle1520]

He killed MJ, killed Ogaden, shelled Hawiye homes in xamar, signed away NFD, signed away galbeed, everyone turned against him because of this except his reer dini clan and dhulbahante. Darood will look you dead in the eye say this man was a hero

The average somali didnt have all this knowledge btw, when seeing archives i noticed a pattern that the average civil war somalis only knew of local xasuq he did and the quran scandal

Apparently the stuff he said on the quran and the law was a way bigger scandal than we think, from borama to kismayo scholars were condemning him and then he did what we all know to them AUN

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Okay I'll do that, twitter is still a good source however

No, people on twitter push their own agenda and use their own stupid reasoning which you just blindly followed, waxaan taarikh ma aha

 

[Midas]

I'll just say it one more time @Zak12 you should just stop entertaining this stuff. These people's only goal is to create this strawman opinion that people are claiming siad barre was a saint and then spam excerpts about how somalia is a shithole.

Case in point why would you ever take the claims of people who say hurr duur " the kacann didnt build these projects " when anybody with a cursory understanding of african history would know that since indepence every major project in africa was externally funded and then the people who actually did the physical work were foreign companies.

 

[Zak12]

No, people on twitter push their own agenda and use their own stupid reasoning which you just blindly followed, waxaan taarikh ma aha

Twitter is a big place, I filtered out the stupid crap

 

[Guure⁸]

He killed MJ, killed Ogaden, shelled Hawiye homes in xamar, signed away NFD, signed away galbeed, everyone turned against him because of this except his reer dini clan and dhulbahante. Still Darood will look you dead in the eye and say this man was a hero

Only mareexan glaze him tbh.

 

[Saleh]

I'll just say it one more time @Zak12 you should just stop entertaining this stuff. These people's only goal is to create this strawman opinion that people are claiming siad barre was a saint and then spam excerpts about how somalia is a shithole.

Case in point why would you ever take the claims of people who say hurr duur " the kacann didnt build these projects " when anybody with a cursory understanding of african history would know that since indepence every major project in africa was externally funded and then the people who actually did the physical work were foreign companies.

You people are really dishonest he claimed kacaan was good because of projects they built and I proved they never built any of those projects. There were no straw men or ad hominem I even avoided insulting siad. He was wrong, it is ok to admit he was wrong gosh man

 

[Zak12]

You people are really dishonest he claimed kacaan was good because of projects they built and I proved they never built any of those projects. There were no straw men or ad hominem I even avoided insulting siad. He was wrong, it is ok to admit he was wrong gosh man

Your mental gymanstics could give Trump a run for his money.

 

[Neptune]

This perspective comes from fundamentally misunderstanding what the eygptian state is.

The eygptian state has been ruled by the military since the 1952 revolution where the eygptian king fuad was overthrown. There are hundreds of powerful military families in eygpt who all the buisness and politcal elite have ties to. These are the actual people who have power behind the scenes and the military councils chose one amongst themselves i.e sissi to rule. Every eygptian president in the last 70 years was military guy. In otherwords The military is eygpt.

Exactly, the military is way too embedded in the nation's institutions. Even their brief attempt at democracy wasn't real since their authority couldn't be challenged. I don't see the status quo changing.

 

[Zak12]

Exactly, the military is way too embedded in the nation's institutions. Even their brief attempt at democracy wasn't real since their authority couldn't be challenged. I don't see the status quo changing.

Possibly the most adoon government in the middle east. Hurting their citizens and gazans for the sake of their American/Israeli masters

 

[Ugazate]

He killed MJ, killed Ogaden, shelled Hawiye homes in xamar, signed away NFD, signed away galbeed, everyone in the end turned against him except his reer dini clan and dhulbahante. Still Darood will look you dead in the eye and say this man was a hero

Signed away Galbeed and NFD? I’m done these hooyo mataalo kids are wild