Protests break out in Egypt

[Saleh]

Well first off, Mogadishu became a modern city under them whereas it stayed the same two district town in the 1960s. Plenty of infrastructure, institutions and more were built as well. And of course, the GDP per capita was much better during the 70s as well.

Kacaan was far from perfect but they were infinitely better than what came before and after hence why so many Somalis talk about Barre. It’s kind of like how Iraqis or Libyans view Saddam or Gaddafi.

Bruh infrastructure and institutions most infrastructure projects in Somalia under kacaan were financed through foreign development aid, just like today

there are many projects falsely attributed to siad and co, many of them were conjured before he even took power. Take the berbera airport for example, famously attributed to siad but in fact the soviets planned to built it 7 years before he even took power

To put it into perspective kacaan was so reliant on foreign entities that they were indebted to every international organization in the world at the time

Do not try and revise history, especially a history which just happened yesterday

 

[Zak12]

Bruh infrastructure and institutions most infrastructure projects in Somalia under kacaan were financed through foreign development aid, just like todayView attachment 368630View attachment 368631

there are many projects falsely attributed to siad and co, many of them were conjured before he even took power. Take the berbera airport for example, famously attributed to siad but in fact the soviets planned to built it 7 years before he even took powerView attachment 368632
To put it into perspective kacaan was so reliant on foreign entities that they were indebted to every international organization in the world at the time View attachment 368633
Do not try and revise history, especially a history which just happened yesterday

Its called investment. Kacaan had no money or technical expertise to do those projects (like most of Africa) so they used Soviet funding and workers to help them.

You really aren't helping your case here. FGS can't even get a single major project off the ground yet Kacaan was doing several (even if some of them weren't successful).

 

[Saleh]

Its called investment. Kacaan had no money or technical expertise to do those projects (like most of Africa) so they used Soviet funding and workers to help them.

You claimed infrastructure and institutions were built under them, but that was only due to external funding just like Somalia has today.

You really aren't helping your case here. FGS can't even get a single major project off the ground yet Kacaan was doing several (even if some of them weren't successful).

Bruh many infrastructure projects in Somalia still exist today and just like in the past they are funded by international organizations. The sheikh road, berbera to wajaale road, the moqdishu airport, the berbera port all funded by external parties and built post kacaan. I am telling you nothing has changed and the nostalgia is misplaced

 

[Zak12]

but that was only due to external funding just like Somalia has today

Again, how else was the Kacaan supposed to fund massive infastructure projects with so little money let alone the skills? Nearly every African country uses foreign funding for their big projects. Its not a bad thing because the expectation is that the revenue from those projects will pay off. Unfortunately the predatory IMF loans following the 1977 war derailed Somalia's economy so debt was rising up.

many infrastructure projects in Somalia still exist today

Barely any. @Barkhadle1520 and I already had a discussion about road quality in Somalia and the only actual road is the one or two left over Kacaan era ones. The rest aren't properly paved or connect to major cities.

by external parties and built post kacaan

Both Kacaan and FGS use foreign funding to build projects. The difference? Kacaan actually had different sources of revenue and created job opporunities for Somalis with increasing wages hence why the GDP per capita was higher. FGS has nothing in comparison.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

The difference? Kacaan actually had different sources of revenue and created job opporunities for Somalis with increasing wages hence why the GDP per capita was higher. FGS has nothing in comparison.

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[Saleh]

Again, how else was the Kacaan supposed to fund massive infastructure projects with so little money let alone the skills? Nearly every African country uses foreign funding for their big projects. Its not a bad thing because the expectation is that the revenue from those projects will pay off. Unfortunately the predatory IMF loans following the 1977 war derailed Somalia's economy so debt was rising up

Why are you crediting them for infrastructure they had nothing to do with nobody says its bad, but praising them for all these projects is disingenuous when they would have been implemented whether or not kacaan existed

Barely any. @Barkhadle1520 and I already had a discussion about road quality in Somalia and the only actual road is the one or two left over Kacaan era ones. The rest aren't properly paved or connect to major cities.

Show me this road you speak of and I will tell you whether or not it was actually built by the kacaan

Both Kacaan and FGS use foreign funding to build projects. The difference? Kacaan actually had different sources of revenue and created job opporunities for Somalis with increasing wages hence why the GDP per capita was higher. FGS has nothing in comparison.

What sources of revenue what job opportunities no offence my friend seriously you do not know what you are talking about. Somalia’s budget in 1975 was $124M USD, after adjusting for inflation $530M, about the same budget as SL and PL today, separately

And just so you know, there was no GDP per capita growth at all under kacaan between 1965 and 1990 0 growth, we had the lowest global GDP per capita figures under this guy. Give me a break

 

[Saleh]

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[Barkhadle1520]

Why are you crediting them for infrastructure they had nothing to do with nobody says its bad, but praising them for all these projects is disingenuous when they would have been implemented whether or not kacaan existed

Show me this road you speak of and I will tell you whether or not it was actually built by the kacaan

What sources of revenue what job opportunities no offence my friend seriously you do not know what you are talking about. Somalia’s budget in 1975 was $124M USD, after adjusting for inflation $530M, about the same budget as SL and PL today, separately

And just so you know, there was no GDP per capita growth at all under kacaan between 1965 and 1990 0 growth, we had the lowest global GDP per capita figures under this guy. Give me a breakView attachment 368635

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[Zak12]

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Nearly all of FGS' revenue come from foreign funding so its not really the same. Yes in theory FGS would be richer if they actually had control over the country and developed domestic revenue but they don't.

Why are you crediting them for infrastructure they had nothing to do with

Because they are the ones who started those projects? They invited engineers and overlooked those projects. This is something that every developing country does, it doesn't mean they can't claim responsibility

implemented whether or not kacaan existed

If the government actually cared about development like Kacaan then yes. But we saw what the civilian government was like from 1960-1969.

Show me this road you speak of and I will tell you whether or

Mogadishu-Baidoa road. Mogadishu-Kismayo highway and the north-south road.

https://x.com/LtKhalifa/status/1942388856952696969?t=i7oGGqrhLRZgZbjeX-WXqQ&s=19

What sources of revenue

The ones they get from taxes, imports/exports, and more. FGS only has port taxes lol.

about the same budget as SL and PL today

I love how you keep ignoring FGS as if it was in any way similar to SL and PL. We are comparing central governments here.

there was no GDP per capita growth at all under kacaan

This is blatantly false. Somalia even had a budget surplus during the 70s. 1960s Somalia was woefully poor.

 

[Zak12]

The difference between Kacaan and FGS are plainly obvious.

Kacaan = mainly self sufficient thanks to having actual domestic revenue but required foreign funding for expensive projects

FGS = Highly dependent in foreign aid just to keep government afloat thanks to non-existent tax base, economy basically controlled by private sector. Projects are mainly foreign funded but they don't increase the income or wealth of the average Somali

The flaws of the Kacaan that people point out (aid/funding) would eventually go away as Somalia's economy develops and human capital grows. The 1969-1985 period was basically the government trying to industrialise the country so that period was focused on establishing basic infastructure and institutions. If things went well and Kacaan wasn't fighting rebels then those projects would eventually pay off and the oil development would follow soon after.

This is the same playbook that all developing countries went through (Oman, Singapore, Portugal, Japan ect).

 

[Midas]

I dont know why you guys are entertaining his b.s its obvious hes trolling.

 

[Zak12]

I dont know why you guys are entertaining his b.s its obvious hes trolling.

Even the biggest Barre critics will admit he did some good things. I don't know why this guy thinks they did literally nothing let alone implying that FGS did more for Somalia than them lmao

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Nearly all of FGS' revenue come from foreign funding so its not really the same. Yes in theory FGS would be richer if they actually had control over the country and developed domestic revenue but they don't.

Lol bro revenue and budget arent the same, I know what youre referring to its the 1b budget of the fgs of which 60% is foreign

If the government actually cared about development like Kacaan then yes. But we saw what the civilian government was like from 1960-1969.

Civilian government had some projects but they all failed because of corruption, they had the same amount of corruption as somalia under hsm first term

I love how you keep ignoring FGS as if it was in any way similar to SL and PL. We are comparing central governments here.

Im 101% sure SL makes the same or a bit more in tax revenue than FGS

This is blatantly false. Somalia even had a budget surplus during the 70s. 1960s Somalia was woefully poor.

Do you know what GDP per capita is, with your logic Nigeria's gdp capita should be way higher

 

[Midas]

Even the biggest Barre critics will admit he did some good things. I don't know why this guy thinks they did literally nothing let alone implying that FGS did more for Somalia than them lmao

I dont know why its but him and the barkhalde guy aren't really seriously people. Half the shit they do is just trolling. Its why I dont take their posts seriously and after a bit I just disengage.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

If things went well and Kacaan wasn't fighting rebels then those projects would eventually pay off and the oil development would follow soon after.

Did the "rebels" start 77 ?

 

[Barkhadle1520]

I dont know why its but him and the barkhalde guy aren't really seriously people. Half the shit they do is just trolling. Its why I dont take their posts seriously and after a bit I just disengage.

Show me where im trolling you garac, you dont like my point of view and my sources so Im "trolling"
Do yk what trolling even is ? Youre probably older than the internet bro lay off the keyboard

 

[Zak12]

Im 101% sure SL makes the same or a bit more in tax revenue than FGS

I doubt it since FGS is basically limited to Mogadishu.

Do you know what GDP per capita is, with your logic Nigeria's gdp capita should be way higher

I know what it is, I was making a side point of how the government was managing the economy better as seen from Somalia's first ever budget surplus (civilian government mainly stole funds).

Did the "rebels" start 77 ?

No but AY tried to instigate a coup as early as 1978. From that point onwards the government was occupied with fighting off internal elements which stalled development.

 

[Zak12]

I dont know why its but him and the barkhalde guy aren't really seriously people. Half the shit they do is just trolling. Its why I dont take their posts seriously and after a bit I just disengage.

I may disagree sometimes with Barkhadle but he isn't a troll at all, he knows his stuff. Its the other guy who does inflammatory stuff.

 

[Saleh]

If the government actually cared about development like Kacaan then yes. But we saw what the civilian government was like from 1960-1969

Where are the independent kacaan funded projects then there are none. They dont exist

Mogadishu-Baidoa road. Mogadishu-Kismayo highway and the north-south road.

https://x.com/LtKhalifa/status/1942388856952696969?t=i7oGGqrhLRZgZbjeX-WXqQ&s=19

Both externally funded the janame road, the berbera-burco road, the juba sugar project, the construction of the university of Mogadishu, afgooye road, port xamar were all foreign projects even the guy you are quoting Lt.khalifa’s source admits the projects werent built by kacaan, but by foreign entities

This is blatantly false. Somalia even had a budget surplus during the 70s. 1960s Somalia was woefully poor.

This is also false we have world bank statistics available today of the GDP per capita in Somalia in 1988 per global market exchange rate would you like me to show you what it was?

 

[Saleh]

I dont know why you guys are entertaining his b.s its obvious hes trolling.

I dont know why its but him and the barkhalde guy aren't really seriously people. Half the shit they do is just trolling. Its why I dont take their posts seriously and after a bit I just disengage.

Atleast idilina is capable of gathering her own sources to formulate some kind of argument. You are a fraud midas I see right through you