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You think that Women were more "free" and "liberated" before Islam? They weren't even considered humans you moron. Islam elevated the status of women; if there were businesswomen in the pre-Islamic Arabian society, surely there were businesswomen post-Islamization. You also have to take into consideration that women (pre-industrialisation) were overwhelmed with house chores that they'd barely have the time to work and this was in every society. The main purpose of the verses of the Qur'an was not to facilitate scientific discoveries you idiot, they are a means of guidance and averting people from corruption. Persians already had a flourishing intellectual environment pre-Islamization but one would be foolish to deny that their advancements and discoveries have further escalated post-Islamization. It's also important to note that a large number of Muslim scientists were in fact of non-Persian descent.


Wallahi you're so ignorant about the religion, it's pathetic. The 4 madhaahib vary only in minor issues, but they're identical for the most part. They usually vary in issues pertaining to ibaadah (e.g. Whether one should fold their arms or not), they don't vary in issues of governance. LOL @ there are disagreements in the usage of ijmaa', sxb please stop exposing yourself as an ignoramus. Those who follow the Salaf (first three generations) is a madhahib (methodology) for them, it's got nothing to do with 'urf. These same people follow modern Salafi scholars in rulings that could not be derived at the time of the Salaf (for obvious reasons, there are new technological inventions and matters that the early generation have not come across). We can use the ijmaa' and fatawa of the early scholars to derive rulings for modern issues. Whether we derive it inductively or deductively. There's no variation in the explanation of the Shariah law, the Qur'an and Sunnah are clear, there's very rarely any grey area.

Those that take "literal" and "metaphorical" approach have nothing to do with the 4 madhahib you shameless modernist. They are issues of 'aqeedah (there are 3 accepted schools of 'aqeedah). The Ash'aris take a metaphorical approach to some verses while Zahiris take a literal approach. Btw, these "literal" and "metaphorical" approach is not regarding Islamic law and has nothing to do with it, they are regarding issues of 'aqeedah, not fiqh.

LOL @ you taught me what 'urf is... Who the heck are you mate? I didn't even read your thread... I've learnt what 'urf was when I was around 12 years old in my dugsi... What a fool. :ulachen001:



I never even spoke about whether women were better off in pre-Islamic Arabia rather I only pointed out that Islam didn't let Khadija be a businesswoman as she was one before the advent of Islam so stop putting words into my mouth.

Neither did I say that most Muslim scientists were Persian I merely mentioned Persia as an example of a place with a thriving culture before Islam.

Thank you for admitting Islam isn't a book of science however which supports my argument that the Golden Age wasn't due to Islam by which I mean these scientific developments weren't derived from Qur'an or Sunnah.
 
I never even spoke about whether women were better off in pre-Islamic Arabia rather I only pointed out that Islam didn't let Khadija be a businesswoman as she was one before the advent of Islam so stop putting words into my mouth.

Neither did I say that most Muslim scientists were Persian I merely mentioned Persia as an example of a place with a thriving culture before Islam.

Thank you for admitting Islam isn't a book of science however which supports my argument that the Golden Age wasn't due to Islam by which I mean these scientific developments weren't derived from Qur'an or Sunnah.
My argument was that Islam didn't prevent the Muslims from thriving and advancing in all areas during the Islamic golden age. While this is your original claim:

Qabyaalad + Islam = Failed state
(Mainly Qabyaalad)

You lose.
 
My argument was that Islam didn't prevent the Muslims from thriving and advancing in all areas during the Islamic golden age.

You lose.



So you concede that it's possible these scientific discoveries could've taken place in Islam's absence, correct?
 
So you concede that it's possible these scientific discoveries could've taken place in Islam's absence, correct?
No, I would say that the emphasis that Islam places on education is also largely responsible. The scientific advancements didn't only come from Persia, Muslims all over the world have contributed. The literacy rates, education levels, etc. have sky-rocketed after the Islamization of nations.
 
No, I would say that the emphasis that Islam places on education is also largely responsible. The scientific advancements didn't only come from Persia, Muslims all over the world have contributed. The literacy rates, education levels, etc. have sky-rocketed after the Islamization of nations.



I can tell by the vagueness of what you've just wrote that Islam didn't really have much influence in this early Enlightenment however I can still point to flaws with what you've just said. "Literacy rates sky rocketed" seriously? The Ottoman Empire up until the 19th century had literacy rates well below 50%. And please, stop trying to argue with points I haven't even made "The scientific advancements didn't only come from Persia" saaxib no need to keep banging on with this I knew that well before this thread.
 
Wallahi you're so ignorant about the religion, it's pathetic. The 4 madhaahib vary only in minor issues, but they're identical for the most part. They usually vary in issues pertaining to ibaadah (e.g. Whether one should fold their arms or not), they don't vary in issues of governance.
Saaxiib i am afraid im not the ignoramous here. The more you speak the more you come of as ignorant troll speaking from his own ass crack. You dont even know what you are talking about, you hear something from me you go Google it then come back qouting me.

Throw a snide remark or an insult (ad hominems) and then repeat my own words With deeper explantion back to me acting like a know it all. I mention Urf and Xeer you repeat it back to me. I mention the different madhabs and the differences on the concencus (which does exist) you repeat the same thing back to me.

LOL @ you taught me what 'urf is... Who the heck are you mate? I didn't even read your thread... I've learnt what 'urf was when I was around 12 years old in my dugsi... What a fool. :ulachen001:

Yeah sure:childplease:

You know what , you are funny i like you.:ulachen001::ulachen001: .
 
Saaxiib i am afraid im not the ignoramous here. The more you speak the more you come of as ignorant troll speaking from his own ass crack. You dont even know what you are talking about, you hear something from me you go Google it then come back qouting me.

Throw a snide remark or an insult and then repeat my own Words With deeper explantion back to me acting like a know it all. I mention Urf and Xeer you repeat it back to me. I mention the different madhabs and the differences on the concencus you repeat the same thing back to me.




Yeah sure:childplease:

You know what , you are funny i like you.:ulachen001::ulachen001: Your silly antics gave me a good laugh.
Saaxiib i am afraid im not the ignoramous here. The more you speak the more you come of as ignorant troll speaking from his own ass crack. You dont even know what you are talking about, you hear something from me you go Google it then come back qouting me.

Throw a snide remark or an insult and then repeat my own Words With deeper explantion back to me acting like a know it all. I mention Urf and Xeer you repeat it back to me. I mention the different madhabs and the differences on the concencus you repeat the same thing back to me.




Yeah sure:childplease:

You know what , you are funny i like you.:ulachen001::ulachen001: Your silly antics gave me a good laugh.
It's actually you that's repeating the same points that I make you dhadhaan. I clearly said Xeer can only be used for minor, non-fundamental issues and you've agreed in the post after that by saying that Xeer can be used as a "meditation between clans" and stuff of that sort.

You've also mentioned that there are "different" interpretations of the Shariah you shameless modernist. This exposed what an ignoramus you are.

Wallahi iyo billahi I did not Google anything. I'm actually quite knowledgeable about Islam, in fact far more knowledgeable than you'll ever be lol.

ALL schools of thoughts whether they're literalists or not have come to the same conclusions about the Shariah (for the most part). The literalists (Zahiris) in terms of fiqh have the opinion that no other laws could be derived from the texts, except what it apparent while other schools of thoughts are of the opinion that we can derive rulings from what's apparent AND qiyaas (using analogy to derive new rulings). The Shariah law is explained in it's entirety in the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Bottom line is, there's only one Shariah law. Even if an ignoramus, shameless modernist like yourself would like to believe otherwise. And this wasteman says I don't know what I'm talking about...
:cryinglaughsmiley:
 
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I can tell by the vagueness of what you've just wrote that Islam didn't really have much influence in this early Enlightenment however I can still point to flaws with what you've just said. "Literacy rates sky rocketed" seriously? The Ottoman Empire up until the 19th century had literacy rates well below 50%. And please, stop trying to argue with points I haven't even made "The scientific advancements didn't only come from Persia" saaxib no need to keep banging on with this I knew that well before this thread.
Sxb you just can't take that it was after the Islamization of these nations that scientific advancements have escalated...
 
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