Zuleikha
Ha igu daalinee dantaada raac
Walahi this place has gotten more weirder since i leftYou are way too young to understand that
. Ka jeeso eedo.
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You are way too young to understand that
. Ka jeeso eedo.
person, it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”
Qur'an
He who kills a believing soul intentionally, Allah makes the Fire of Hell his abode, He will become angry with him, and curse him, and has prepared a tremendous punishment for him, equal to if he had killed all people, his punishment will still be the s
The Muslim holy book the Quran, says in Surah 5 verse 32 “if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind.”
Such is the value of a single human life, that the Quran equates the taking of even one human life unjustly, with killing all of humanity. Thus, the Quran prohibits homicide in clear terms. The taking of a criminal’s life by the state in order to administer justice is required to uphold the rule of law, and the peace and security of the society. Only a proper and competent court can decide whether an individual has forfeited his right to life by disregarding the right to life and peace of other human beings.
Islam enjoins upon all Muslims to work actively to maintain the balance in which God created everything. Terrorizing the civilian population can never be termed as jihad and can never be reconciled with the teachings of Islam.
The Shariah law is not an inadequate system of governance at all, it literally encompasses every aspect of governance and provides the nation with a totally free and interrupted market which means even governments cannot implement fiscal policies solely for their own benefit; every governmental decision must be for the benefit of the entire nation.
Stop being hasty and read what I said carefully...
The problems that I've made mention of in my previous post would not exist had they IMPLEMENTED the Shariah in its totality. Had the Shariah law been implemented, the aggressors (e.g. the people that get involved in money laundry, bribery, etc) would not be above the law and they would be brought to justice; whether they're in senior positions (e.g. Governments) or among the common-folk.
I'm guessing you're one of these "enlightened" Somalis who believe the Shariah law is insufficient. The Xeer system cannot replace the Shariah law. Sure, some of the rulings of Islamic jurisprudence (that are regarding minor issues) can be replaced by the Xeer (which is kind of a 'urf), but that's as far as it goes.
Be careful dude, you seem a little too passionate about nationalism.
I see you've been picking up on some of my lexicon. Islam does remain a bulwark towards recovery. Al-Shabaab's suicide bombings are testament to that. Islam isn't the solution because if we see it being applied properly as you suggest it isn't then what we get are football stadiums being converted into execution grounds. Islam also holds the pernicious view of this life being a way station whereas the gaalo prioritise this life first. This means the gaalo strive to make this life a better place through innovations etc whereas the average Muslim will focus on their "Akhira." At best this mentality limits innovation as those who study scripture are valued over the intelligensia and at worst it leads to the bazaar or suuq being bombed.[/QUOT
http://www.emuslim.com/islamagainstVoilence.asp
Firstly: Islam can be part of the solution among many solutions in the reconstruction of Somali society. Islam can be an agent for unity and stability.
Secondly: There is nothing in any major world religion that automatically creates war. Islam does have a more militaristic tone in the Qur'an but so does the Old Testament -- if not more so. Yet for all the accusations of violence in Islam where is this so-called violence in Muslim communities which have some of the lowest crime rates in the world. Anyone who has visited Morocco or any Muslim majority country would struggle to feel a threat from natural civilian violence. And we cannot consider war torn Iraq or war torn Somalia as that is a war zone created/sustained by Western and Ethiopian interest. You could walk almost anywhere in Iran without worry, even in Palestine or Lebanon. Islamic countries are extremely peaceful compared to their Western counterparts.
Thirdly: Islamic is a partners in modernity. Although i know how western propaganda try to annex this history and claim it for their own. Many are shocked to discover how much of of our modern world is Islamic. Even the every numerology 1, 2. 3, 4, 5 etc is Arabic numbers, not European.
Heck just by briefly surveying what Islam has already contributed to the world's civilization, education, culture and to scientific development. Unlike Western Christianity where Religion and Science are posed as two separate elements, the study of Science has always been compatible with Islam. Science and Islam still live side by side in many parts of the world.
I know young muslims and ex-muslims like you are discouraged when they see the poor standard of living of Muslims throughout the world and their limited opportunities.
You guys also know the undeveloped status of technology within the Muslim countries in comparison with the West. From these observations, you immediately leap to the conclusion that the Muslim countries are 'backward', because Islam cannot adapt itself to the changing conditions; cannot assimilate new knowledge. Some of you even go so far as to say that Islam is actually against progress and against scientific advancement. However, those Muslims who have studied the later part of Islamic history will know that this is a complete fallacy and misconception.
I see you've made no real points there. The Shariah law is a law for this world, not the next. The Shariah law does also prioritise this life; the whole purpose of this law is so that the citizens can live in harmony (in this world, moron), to limit/eliminate civil strife, aggression and wrong doings in general.
A "real" point would consist of selecting an aspect from the Shariah law and discussing why this particular aspect could be detrimental to the prosperity of a nation (which you've failed to do by the way).
You've mentioned Al-Shabaab and suicide bombings... You do realise that suicide is against Islam, don't you?
The Shariah law was implemented in the Islamic golden age but that was not an obstacle for the prosperity and advancements of the Muslims.
Sharia is a legal system well in use today. Xeer is mainly there to deal with mediation between clans and such. What im talking about is democratic models currently we are using federalism, before the war we used an imported communist centralized dictatorship model and then before that a multiple party democratic govt
Like a Somali intellectual in Qatar proposses to use
Decentralized Unitary System: A Possible Middle Ground Model for Somalia
http://english.dohainstitute.org/file/Get/38075bbb-7b5f-4d4a-9cfb-1f64b9b9964b
A decentralized unitary system works best as a middle ground model for Somalia because it allows more space between communties and more Equal distribution between Resources and adresses the main greviances of Somali communities. Dealing with not only domestic but also foreign driven problems.
Sure.
Sharia Law is an interpretation that varies. What is in its totality, may i ask?
Shariah law is law of the land, but it is moderate interpretation..but there will be areas like shariah financing, divorce settlements, family issues, all will be shariah based.
For Somalia locals are in agreement that it will be kind of be like malaysia model or indonesia. The rest will be based on Somali legal laws called (Xeer).
'Which is kind of a urf''
you are indeed funny my man. But that is as far as you will go i guess. PS: Nope not as Self-righteous as to claim i am ''enlightened''. I would call myself truth seeker i seek understanding in self and the complexities of humanity. Seeing how you are condescendingly giving me snide remarks i would think you would fit more into that category as some self declared ''Elighened person''.
I see you've made no real points there. The Shariah law is a law for this world, not the next. The Shariah law does also prioritise this life; the whole purpose of this law is so that the citizens can live in harmony (in this world, moron), to limit/eliminate civil strife, aggression and wrong doings in general.
A "real" point would consist of selecting an aspect from the Shariah law and discussing why this particular aspect could be detrimental to the prosperity of a nation (which you've failed to do by the way).
You've mentioned Al-Shabaab and suicide bombings... You do realise that suicide is against Islam, don't you?
The Shariah law was implemented in the Islamic golden age but that was not an obstacle for the prosperity and advancements of the Muslims.
OK I'll give you two obvious examples of how not all people are equal under Sharia. A woman's testimony in court is half that a man's. Moreover, a Muslim who murders a Non-Muslim must under no circumstances be executed for it whereas the same guarantee isn't given to a Non-Muslim who is guilty of the same crime. And please show some basic etiquette as calling people "moron" etc only furthers the stereotype that Muslims can't take criticism.
Well then that's it buddy, everything else you've mentioned was completely irrelevant to this discussion, I'd like to think that it was a failed attempt at flaunting your intellectual prowess.
Dude, there's something called 'ijma which means consensus; the Scholars of Islam have come to the same conclusion in the interpretation of the Islamic texts for the most part. Even a cousin of mine (who uses this forum) is able to interpret Islamic texts in the same way. Most of the issues in Islamic jurisprudence are black and white, there's rarely any grey area dude...
The Shariah law encompasses EVERYTHING (law related), but some of the fiqh issues can be replaced with customs (this is called 'urf in Arabic, nothing funny about it). Xeer is classified as an 'urf, make no mistake about that. Sure, Somalis can use the Xeer system for meditation between tribes and a few other minor issues, but that's it; you said it yourself that "it's mainly used for meditation between clans and such" and you're right about that.
ʿUrf (Arabic: العرف) is an Arabic Islamicterm referring to the custom, or 'knowledge', of a given society. To be recognized in an Islamic society, ʿurf must be compatible with the Sharia law.[1] When applied, it can lead to the deprecation or inoperability of a certain aspect of fiqh فقه (Islamic jurisprudence).[1]
And how does anything that you've mentioned prevent the prosperity and growth of a nation? This was your original comment:
Prosperity and growth only properly arrive with the emancipation of women and letting them have an equal playing field by allowing them to enter the workforce unrestricted. Whilst Sharia doesn't ban woman from the workforce entirely rulings such as their testimony being half that of a man's greatly fuels the notion that the woman is inferior to man and should therefore stay within their domestic household affairs as much as possible. Admittedly even the West hasn't stuck a perfect but they're alot further ahead than the Muslim world.
PS: I agree however that aside from that major issue there aren't many flaws within Islamic finance hence why I rarely make economic arguments against Islam.
''Flaunting intellectual prowess'' kulaha
Wait to goo my maan disregard everything i said..What islamic scholars? your cousin? honestly wtf are you talking about?
Black and white
i got ya.I'm sorry not trying to be disrespectful or condescending, but what you wrote is inchoherent. I cant make sense of it.
Fiqh issues replaced with costums? classified as an ''Urf''.?
Nice job copying and pasting that from wikipedia
. At least now you know what ''Urf'' is (kinda).Kkkkkk. The Islamic golden age attests to the fact that you're talking out of your ass. This law does not undermine women in anyway, women in Islam have the right to education and work. In fact the wife of the Prophet (SAW) was a wealthy businesswoman. Education is compulsory for both men and women in Islam.
I did not disregard everything else that you said for the sake of disregarding it, rather it was irrelevant to the issue at hand. 'Urf means customs. Xeer is a custom, thus Xeer = 'urf. Some of the minor issues of Islamic jurisprudence/law (fiqh) can be replaced with Xeer (which is the 'urf of the Somali people). Get it? It's really not that difficult. Yes, most of the Islamic texts can only be interpreted in one way, basic knowledge of the Arabic language would lead you to come to the same conclusion; hence these issues are usually part of the ijmaa' (consensus) of scholars. There's no other way of "interpreting" the Shariah; gtfooh with your "moderate Islam" nonsense. Wow, what a genius (!), anyone that reads the last part of my post can tell it was from Wikipedia. I did not claim that the last part of my post was not copied and pasted from Wikipedia, I just found it convenient to copy & paste that excerpt to explain the issues at hand.''Flaunting intellectual prowess'' kulaha
What islamic scholars? your cousin? honestly wtf are you talking about?
Black and white
I'm sorry not trying to be disrespectful or condescending, but what you wrote is inchoherent. I cant make sense of it.
Fiqh issues replaced with costums? classified as an ''Urf''.?
Nice job copying and pasting that from wikipedia
I knew you'd bring up Khadija she as a matter of fact was a businesswoman before Islam and she was the greatest financier of Muhammad's early days as a preacher so it was convenient for him that the funds continue to arrive. The term "Islamic Golden Age" is a misnomer in my opinion as most of these thinkers were from areas which the Muslins conquered. These areas eg: Persia already had a thriving culture of intellectualism. I also guarantee you won't be able to show me a verse which these thinkers directly used to postulate a hypothesis which still hasn't been proven to be false to this day.
Saaxiib you dont have spell out what Urf means to me, i was the one who you got it from when i posted that link to my thread.
Before i posted my thread you didn't even know what Urf meant.
We know what ijmaa means but there are disagreements in its defintition and usage its a well known fact. For some its the first generation only, for others its the concensus of the 3 Early generations or the scholarly, juridist or the concencus of the muslims world or only the religiously learned etc,,etc,. So it varies under who's concensus it is and how that is applied.
There are five different schools of interpretation of sharia: four in the Sunni tradition. In the sunni tradition there is Shafici,Hanballi, Maliki and Hanafi.
All the schools are similar, but some take a more literal approach to texts while others prefer a contextual interpretation. That is not a modern thing neither.
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You think that Women were more "free" and "liberated" before Islam? They weren't even considered humans you moron. Islam elevated the status of women; if there were businesswomen in the pre-Islamic Arabian society, surely there were businesswomen post-Islamization. You also have to take into consideration that women (pre-industrialisation) were overwhelmed with house chores that they'd barely have the time to work and this was in every society. The main purpose of the verses of the Qur'an was not to facilitate scientific discoveries you idiot, they are a means of guidance and averting people from corruption. Persians already had a flourishing intellectual environment pre-Islamization but one would be foolish to deny that their advancements and discoveries have further escalated post-Islamization. It's also important to note that a large number of Muslim scientists were in fact of non-Persian descent.
Wallahi you're so ignorant about the religion, it's pathetic. The 4 madhaahib vary only in minor issues, but they're identical for the most part. They usually vary in issues pertaining to ibaadah (e.g. Whether one should fold their arms or not), they don't vary in issues of governance. LOL @ there are disagreements in the usage of ijmaa', sxb please stop exposing yourself as an ignoramus. Those who follow the Salaf (first three generations) is a madhahib (methodology) for them, it's got nothing to do with 'ijmaa. These same people follow modern Salafi scholars in rulings that could not be derived at the time of the Salaf (for obvious reasons, there are new technological inventions and matters that the early generation have not come across). We can use the ijmaa' and fatawa of the early scholars to derive rulings for modern issues. Whether we derive it inductively or deductively. There's no variation in the explanation of the Shariah law, the Qur'an and Sunnah are clear, there's very rarely any grey area.
LOL @ you taught me what 'urf is... Who the heck are you mate? I didn't even read your thread... I've learnt what 'urf was when I was around 12 years old in my dugsi... What a fool.
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