Only children born to two Somali parents are full Somali

[World]

Lineage is overrated. You can join qabiil as a sheegat. Historically non Somalis that immigrated to Somalia joined into their wives clans. Heck, you could even join your Reer Abti clan as a Somali.

 

[Angelina]

Lineage is overrated. You can join qabiil as a sheegat. Historically non Somalis that immigrated to Somalia joined into their wives clans. Heck, you could even join your Reer Abti clan as a Somali.

Does DNA testing prove that?

 

[World]

Does DNA testing prove that?

Yeah, there was a Garre tested recently on Y-Full for example that is actually an Oromo who assimilated into the clan.

And this week @Step a side made a post about it:

Just spoke to elders over at the Karanle group chat. They know I am testing Karanle and other Hawiye. This what they said.


“Yea its true, Hawiye in Galbeed come under the Labo Hawiye, they are Gugundhabe and Karanle. So theres an original clade among them but they have sheegatos among them. All gorgaarte, jambeele go under gugundhabe, xaskul and rarane come under karanle. But it was likely not limited to just hawiye subclans claiming the 2 clans. Anyone moving into the land, whether he is somali or ajnabi, would live and pay qaaraan with the clan, adopting the protection as a lineage over time”

@Bowda-dheer they told exactly what you just said which is to go and test Xaskul instead. They kept their original profile and are also the ones guarding the grave of Hawiye. Gugundhabe and Karanle are an umbrella clan. The original stock is less than 50% as they died out during all the year of fighting. This Hawiye elder from baabili said the same where many people are Karanle only by name. Skip to 2:00

Not saying the majority of clans are sheegato, there’s obviously a real lineage for most clans but sheegats also make up a decent percentage.

 

[Step a side]

Yeah, there was a Garre tested recently on Y-Full for example that is actually an Oromo who assimilated into the clan.

And this week @Step a side made a post about it:


Not saying the majority of clans are sheegato, there’s obviously a real lineage for most clans but sheegats also make up a decent percentage.

I exaggerated a bit with the percentage but there are definitely a lot of sheegaato in most clans especially the clans from the Hararghe region. This Karanle was a full blown sheegaato in my opinion as he failed to give his sub clan .

 

[Angelina]

I exaggerated a bit with the percentage but there are definitely a lot of sheegaato in most clans especially the clans from the Hararghe region. This Karanle was a full blown sheegaato in my opinion as he failed to give his sub clan .

why do you think historically clans sometimes accepted people who weren’t from their clan. Extra man power? What what be during times of turmoil?

 

[Naldos]

What you trying to say there matey


Absolutely madness, it’s the actual reason I created this thread. Got tired of hearing the gibberish.



They will come under the Somali banner like many others before them, but will never ever be accepted as ethnic Somalis.

that privilege is reserved only for Dir, Darood, Hawiye, Isaaq and Digil& Mirifle.

The rest are under the protection of the above clans as point fives.



If it wasn’t for the lineage, children born to Somali mothers and Ajinabi men. Would be more Somali, then those with Somali Fathers and Ajinabi Mothers. Because of culture!!!

You’re underestimating the role of a mother in a child’s life.

Why do you have a weird obsession with mixed somalis/interracial marriage etc? You have already posted about how you’re from a conservative qabil who only marry each other so I’m confused as to why you’re always posting about these topics? Nobody uses the term “half cast” btw. It’s only on here that I’ll see people pretend that mixed somalis in the west are treated differently/badly based on which parent is somali.

 

[Step a side]

why do you think historically clans sometimes accepted people who weren’t from their clan. Extra man power? What what be during times of turmoil?

It’s done for many reasons. Sometimes an entire group/clan will join another larger clan and take its abtirsi, this obviously was done for bolstering manpower and increase security. Other times a “single” foreign/ outsider will join a clan because he married into the clan and his children took the mothers lineage. Often times these foreign men were teachers teaching deen like in the case of the recent Geri Koombe from jigjiga who took a DNA test and happened to be descendant of Moorish sheikhs with roots from the Mediterranean region and there are historical references to back this as the Futuh did mention sheikhs from North Africa- Spain being present in Harar. These men had no where to go and would marry into local communities and their descendants would adopt the clans of their abtiyaal.

 

[Angelina]

It’s done for many reasons. Sometimes an entire group/clan will join another larger clan and take its abtirsi, this obviously was done for bolstering manpower and increase security. Other times a “single” foreign/ outsider will join a clan because he married into the clan and his children took the mothers lineage. Often times these foreign men were teachers teaching deen like in the case of the recent Geri Koombe from jigjiga who took a DNA test and happened to be descendant of Moorish sheikhs with roots from the Mediterranean region and there are historical references to back this as the Futuh did mention sheikhs from North Africa- Spain being present in Harar. These men had no where to go and would marry into local communities and their descendants would adopt the clans of their abtiyaal.

That’s fascinating stuff, but it doesn’t suprise me. Societies were indeed complicated and it fits into my previous points.


@Idrus, what do you make of this? Lol.

 

[Step a side]

@Angelina We see many Somalis with paternal roots going back to Ottoman, Persian, Arab etc world. They never knew this themselves untill they took a test themselves. These Somalis actually thought they were from so and so clan . We also see entire clans are not actually Isaaq, Dir, Darood ,RX, Hawiye etc as they were taught to believe. Our ancestors were more civilised then us and never took the Qabiil thing to extremes. They were more into uniting then dividing like we see today.

 

[Angelina]

@Angelina We see many Somalis with paternal roots going back to Ottoman, Persian, Arab etc world. They never knew this themselves untill they took a test themselves. These Somalis actually thought they were from so and so clan . We also see entire clans are not actually Isaaq, Dir, Darood ,RX, Hawiye etc as they were taught to believe. Our ancestors were more civilised then us and never took the Qabiil thing to extremes. They were more into uniting then dividing like we see today.

I don’t know if it came from a place of being civilized though. If you have another qabil at your door trying to steal your grazing land, then of course you’re going to make the ajnabi brother in law that’s married in fight and take part. I just think it’s a numbers game and more about bolstering numbers in the face of danger. I think they took qabil a lot more seriously because whilst we see qabil as simply our identity and lineage, for people of old it was more of a political alliance. Our ancestors had to be practical, they did not have the shaaqo L’iaan leisure the youth of today have who think that people were strict with regards to clan identity especially when it governed so much of their lives.

 

[Sophisticate]

Lineage is overrated. You can join qabiil as a sheegat. Historically non Somalis that immigrated to Somalia joined into their wives clans. Heck, you could even join your Reer Abti clan as a Somali.

Each clan has its rules regarding assimilation. There is a process and one can't join every one.

 

[Khaem]

That’s fascinating stuff, but it doesn’t suprise me. Societies were indeed complicated and it fits into my previous points.


@Idrus, what do you make of this? Lol.

It happend but @Step a side is making it out to be something bigger than it actually is.
Majority of Shisheeye could not just marry a somali woman and be considered a part of her clan, that's stupid and only worked out for a small % of marriages back in the past.

Somali society is complicated and there were ofc little exceptions made but there are still general rules put in place as a patriarchal Clan based Culture that are not easily bent.

 

[Kane]

Realistically the whole transferring of the culture is fake and weak argument for those who grew up in the west.

first and second gen hooyo matalos who grew up in the west and have no intentions of going back to learn the language or getting more cultured in general are not passing anything on wether they are a nin or naag.

Right now I would say a somali mom would pass on the culture more so then a somali dad but over time it will flip the other way or even out the more gens somalis remain in the west because women are generally more progressive then there male counterpart so less likely to hold on to tradition while men start to hold onto tradition and the past the more longer it starts to fade away just look at @Idrus

As for somalis in somalia the environment is enough whether they have a somali mom or dad

if those with Somali mothers are doing that bad, what chance do the ones with Ajinabi mother have.

we need to bounce as soon as the money right.

Why do you have a weird obsession with mixed somalis/interracial marriage etc? You have already posted about how you’re from a conservative qabil who only marry each other so I’m confused as to why you’re always posting about these topics? Nobody uses the term “half cast” btw. It’s only on here that I’ll see people pretend that mixed somalis in the west are treated differently/badly based on which parent is somali.

For the same exact reason you are keeping a close eye on me, let’s call it a mystery.

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I never advocated for the mistreatment of innocent children, but that still doesn’t make them Somali.

 

[Odious Delirium]

if those with Somali mothers are doing that bad, what chance do the ones with Ajinabi mother have.

we need to bounce as soon as the money right.

I agree but people defo downplay the men. Other factors are at play here tho and in general someone who has married out is less likely to pass on much compared to a person who want to marry a fellow somali in the first place.

 

[galhareeri]

They’d be bragging about his achievements to ajnabis. The richest African man is Somali or has a Somali mother! They would.

That is my point . But remember its only loud minority with low self esteem who are prety much loosers who think by braging somwone success will make them some how feel good of.
Its the same thing pple brag about someone feom their qabiil who is wealthy even though he or she maybe in bad finacial situation they doing just to elevate their ego.
Its just an ego game nothing realy taungible.

 

[galhareeri]

I exaggerated a bit with the percentage but there are definitely a lot of sheegaato in most clans especially the clans from the Hararghe region. This Karanle was a full blown sheegaato in my opinion as he failed to give his sub clan .

Walhi i am always suprised as to why murusade hold into jaranle .
Walahu i cant trust those pple those from babile imagine i can nver let them into my family through mariage they maybe oromo walahi.
Also why we murusade stil want to use that karanle identity by celebrating just leave it and throw it away. Being murusade should be enough for all of us man i dont give damn about hawiye. But atleat pple like abgaal or other hiraab are close to us we nnow them but karanle from baile we dont know who they are

 

[Nass010]

I've have noticed when a person is mixed with somali and white that in their they head identify themselves solely as black African alone, that's why u see them going to afro parties thinking they are participating in a culture which is there's so this thread is garbage because they identify themselves as half black or just mixed with African instead of somali and tbh the ones with somali dads are mostly less religious than the ones with somali moms

 

[Step a side]

Walhi i am always suprised as to why murusade hold into jaranle .
Walahu i cant trust those pple those from babile imagine i can nver let them into my family through mariage they maybe oromo walahi.
Also why we murusade stil want to use that karanle identity by celebrating just leave it and throw it away. Being murusade should be enough for all of us man i dont give damn about hawiye. But atleat pple like abgaal or other hiraab are close to us we nnow them but karanle from baile we dont know who they are

Nah your wrong brother. Surre in the south match their Dir brothers all the way in the Djibouti. Even Xaskul Hawiye from Galmudug and Hirshabelle have branches in Babili and other nearby regions. There are Murusade subs that live in Babili and you will find various Karanle subs in Benaadir and south Somalia.

Just because one sheegaato with different lineage claims Karanle doesn’t mean everything is fake. Gugundhabe in Somalia is same as Gugundhabe in Mieso and Sitti. No differences. You are just young and too used to Xamar but you should never forget your roots.

 

[galhareeri]

Nah your wrong brother. Surre in the south match their Dir brothers all the way in the Djibouti. Even Xaskul Hawiye from Galmudug and Hirshabelle have branches in Babili and other nearby regions. There are Murusade subs that live in Babili and you will find various Karanle subs in Benaadir and south Somalia.

Just because one sheegaato with different lineage claims Karanle doesn’t mean everything is fake. Gugundhabe in Somalia is same as Gugundhabe in Mieso and Sitti. No differences. You are just young and too used to Xamar but you should never forget your roots.

Bro let me say this what murusade sub clan that live in babile i am sure its not us habar idinle

 

[TheManWhoIsAlive]

Somali mother/ Ajinabi father = non Somali

Ajinabi mother/ Somali father = half cast

Somali mother/ Somali father = full Somali

Let’s talk about it …..

Not much to talk about. If you're talking about Somali as in the ethnicity, then you're right. It's just a plain fact that if you're mixed, you're mixed.

If someone is half Somali, so long as they respect the culture, I'd embrace that person. No sense being combative. They didn't ask to be born.