On the poetic tradition in pre-islamic arabia and the horn

[Midas]

One of the topics im intrested in is early islam and pre-islamic arabia. There has been a lot of working being done recently with stuff like the epigraphy and even on ge'ez loan words in quranic arabic and I've always wondered about if there was any connection between somali poetry and the traditon of classical arabic poetry espcially since it was also an oral poetry tradition in the preislamic period. I know ive talked about how there's no connection but that's more about the Islamic period.

I have basically looked at all the different afroasiatic lanaguges (hausa,berber,aramaic,hebrew,ethio-semetic) and I have not been an able to find a single one with a metred oral poetic tradition except arabic and somali. It seems a little too coincidental that two of these traditions arose independently and none of the other Afro-asiatic lanaguges seem to have this.

also as I was scrolling through reddit I found this very intresting post about how the pre-islamic poetic arabic seems to features even more archaic than the north arabian inscriptions. But what was even more intresting was that the apprent homeland of this poetry tradition was the southern hijaz and the coastal tihama region. A very intresting coincidence right?

 

[Midas]

Whenever we talk about contact between the horn and the arabian penisula. What never seems to figure into any of these discussions is that the people on the red sea coast weather we are talking eritrea or the hijaz/tihama region didnt have a strong seafaring tradition. Which isnt surprising since on the eritrean side there doesn't seem to have been more than 1 port active in the historical record . You had adulis then it shifted to the dahlakh then to massawa On the Arabian side you seem to only hear about jeddah and mocha . With there seemingly being no important enough port in the hijaz during the period of the periplus to be recorded.

On top of this for a seafaring culture you need largq quantities of wood strong enough to build boats. Which doesnt seem to have been present in eritrea considering how harsh the nearby coastal plains were. Nor in a place like the hijaz region. In comparison you had several somali ports recorded during the period of the periplus and even later on berbera and zeila seemed to have remained major ports with several other minor ports on the coast. This is not to mention the major somali ports on the Indian ocean side. To top all of this off suddenly when we get to the hadrahuamt and oman places with far smaller pouplations than eritrea or the hijaz you suddenly get a much stronger tradition of seafaring.

 

[NidarNidar]

Whenever we talk about contact between the horn and the arabian penisula. What never seems to figure into any of these discussions is that the people on the red sea coast weather we are talking eritrea or the hijaz/tihama region didnt have a strong seafaring tradition. Which isnt surprising since on the eritrean side there doesn't seem to have been more than 1 port active in the historical record . You had adulis then it shifted to the dahlakh then to massawa On the Arabian side you seem to only hear about jeddah and mocha . With there seemingly being no important enough port in the hijaz during the period of the periplus to be recorded.

On top of this for a seafaring culture you need largq quantities of wood strong enough to build boats. Which doesnt seem to have been present in eritrea considering how harsh the nearby coastal plains were. Nor in a place like the hijaz region. In comparison you had several somali ports recorded during the period of the periplus and even later on berbera and zeila seemed to have remained major ports with several other minor ports on the coast. This is not to mention the major somali ports on the Indian ocean side. To top all of this off suddenly when we get to the hadrahuamt and oman places with far smaller pouplations than eritrea or the hijaz you suddenly get a much stronger tradition of seafaring.

That’s a really interesting point. I think you’re right that the Red Sea lacked some of the ecological and material conditions for a strong seafaring tradition especially timber. The Red Sea coast is harsh, with limited resources, and it makes sense that maritime activity was concentrated around just a few shifting ports rather than many, the more important ports were in the Gulf of Aden.

The contrast with the Somali coast is striking. The Periplus records several Somali ports, and the continuity of Berbera and Zeila later on shows a deeper rooted maritime tradition. And like you mention, Oman and Hadramawt despite smaller populations developed a strong seafaring culture, probably because geography and resources pushed them toward the sea. Oman in particular had access to better timber sources from inland Arabia and Persia, plus long-standing ties with the Indian Ocean trade world.

Eritrea and the Hijaz were more oriented toward caravan trade and land routes, while Somalia, Hadramawt, and Oman leaned into maritime commerce. Maybe the Red Sea was more of a “corridor” controlled at choke points rather than a sea of bustling local ports, whereas the western Indian Ocean demanded active seafaring traditions.

Also Tihamah derives it's name from Tihāmat which is proto semetic for sea, Tiamat is the ancient Mesopotamian god of the sea and of chaos.

Here is a interesting read:

 

[moosaid]

My grandfather told me that they used to sell a type of tree to the Arabs on the coast of Sanaag.

 

[JamalFarah]

That’s a really interesting point. I think you’re right that both the Red Sea lacked some of the ecological and material conditions for a strong seafaring tradition especially timber. The Red Sea coast is harsh, with limited resources, and it makes sense that maritime activity was concentrated around just a few shifting ports rather than many, the more important ports were in the Gulf of Aden.

View attachment 372231

The contrast with the Somali coast is striking. The Periplus records several Somali ports, and the continuity of Berbera and Zeila later on shows a deeper rooted maritime tradition. And like you mention, Oman and Hadramawt despite smaller populations developed a strong seafaring culture, probably because geography and resources pushed them toward the sea. Oman in particular had access to better timber sources from inland Arabia and Persia, plus long-standing ties with the Indian Ocean trade world.

Eritrea and the Hijaz were more oriented toward caravan trade and land routes, while Somalia, Hadramawt, and Oman leaned into maritime commerce. Maybe the Red Sea was more of a “corridor” controlled at choke points rather than a sea of bustling local ports, whereas the western Indian Ocean demanded active seafaring traditions.

View attachment 372229


Also Tihamah derives it's name from Tihāmat which is proto semetic for sea, Tiamat is the ancient Mesopotamian god of the sea and of chaos.

Here is a interesting read:

I think what further strengthens this is that the more seafaring Somalis (Omanis and Yemenis aswell) actually incorporated and assimilated quite a few aspects from South and Southeast Asia from sambuusa and sawayeed in our culinary tradition to the Southeast Asian sarong incorporated into the macawiis.

 

[Guure⁸]

My grandfather told me that they used to sell a type of tree to the Arabs on the coast of Sanaag.

Probably mayrax ama xabag

 

[NidarNidar]

I think what further strengthens this is that the more seafaring Somalis (Omanis and Yemenis aswell) actually incorporated and assimilated quite a few aspects from South and Southeast Asia from sambuusa and sawayeed in our culinary tradition to the Southeast Asian sarong incorporated into the macawiis.

We did get a Somali man/woman with Malay Y or mtDNA haplogroup, one of the guys mentioned it about a year or two ago, this corresponds with contact with Malay seafarers around 8th or 9th century AD, before they settled in Madagascar.

 

[Midas]

That’s a really interesting point. I think you’re right that the Red Sea lacked some of the ecological and material conditions for a strong seafaring tradition especially timber. The Red Sea coast is harsh, with limited resources, and it makes sense that maritime activity was concentrated around just a few shifting ports rather than many, the more important ports were in the Gulf of Aden.

View attachment 372231

The contrast with the Somali coast is striking. The Periplus records several Somali ports, and the continuity of Berbera and Zeila later on shows a deeper rooted maritime tradition. And like you mention, Oman and Hadramawt despite smaller populations developed a strong seafaring culture, probably because geography and resources pushed them toward the sea. Oman in particular had access to better timber sources from inland Arabia and Persia, plus long-standing ties with the Indian Ocean trade world.

Eritrea and the Hijaz were more oriented toward caravan trade and land routes, while Somalia, Hadramawt, and Oman leaned into maritime commerce. Maybe the Red Sea was more of a “corridor” controlled at choke points rather than a sea of bustling local ports, whereas the western Indian Ocean demanded active seafaring traditions.

View attachment 372229


Also Tihamah derives it's name from Tihāmat which is proto semetic for sea, Tiamat is the ancient Mesopotamian god of the sea and of chaos.

Here is a interesting read:

It's also i think how we can explain the deep culutral connection between the tihama region and somalis. Since the tihama coastline is a single culutral region we could reach by boat and not deal with the desert or the highlands.

Where's people from that region couldn't really build boats and sail. Since it was lacking in wood and basically almost no ports.

 

[Riftvalley]

Somali Maanso and Arabic mansuub is interesting. I think we discussed it before. AI seems to think Somali loaned it from Arabic but it is a probably a shared tradition from the period you described.

AI:
“Somali maanso" refers to classical, formal Somali poetry, distinct from folk songs (hees)
. The term "maanso" is itself of Arabic origin, likely derived from mansūm (منظوم), meaning "poetry" or "a measured verse". While the Somali language has been heavily influenced by Arabic, a complex relationship exists between the two, with Somali having a distinct linguistic structure and its own rich poetic traditions like maanso.
Key Aspects

• Classical Form: Maanso represents a sophisticated, formal tradition of Somali poetry, as opposed to the more casual and communal style of work songs called hees.
• Arabic Origin: The term "maanso" is a loanword from Arabic, which highlights the historical and linguistic connection between the two cultures.
• Metrical Structure: Maanso poetry features a measured and symmetrical verse structure, often described as involving numerical counting or a consistent "balance" in its meter.
• Cultural Significance: Like other forms of Somali poetry, maanso is a vital way to express collective identity and share values, providing insight into the Somali experience”.

 

[Midas]

Somali Maanso and Arabic mansuub is interesting. I think we discussed it before. AI seems to think Somali loaned it from Arabic but it is a probably a shared tradition from the period you described.

AI:
“Somali maanso" refers to classical, formal Somali poetry, distinct from folk songs (hees)
. The term "maanso" is itself of Arabic origin, likely derived from mansūm (منظوم), meaning "poetry" or "a measured verse". While the Somali language has been heavily influenced by Arabic, a complex relationship exists between the two, with Somali having a distinct linguistic structure and its own rich poetic traditions like maanso.
Key Aspects

• Classical Form: Maanso represents a sophisticated, formal tradition of Somali poetry, as opposed to the more casual and communal style of work songs called hees.
• Arabic Origin: The term "maanso" is a loanword from Arabic, which highlights the historical and linguistic connection between the two cultures.
• Metrical Structure: Maanso poetry features a measured and symmetrical verse structure, often described as involving numerical counting or a consistent "balance" in its meter.
• Cultural Significance: Like other forms of Somali poetry, maanso is a vital way to express collective identity and share values, providing insight into the Somali experience”.

The coastal regions of the Arabian peninsula are the parts with the heaviest influence from the horn of africa. . The fact that the origin of arabic poetry is the tiaham(coastal plain) is extremely fascinating.

They even build aqals as well.

 

[Garaad Awal]

We did get a Somali man/woman with Malay Y or mtDNA haplogroup, one of the guys mentioned it about a year or two ago, this corresponds with contact with Malay seafarers around 8th or 9th century AD, before they settled in Madagascar.

I used to get a SE Asian signal on G25 & other DNA sites. It does seem real for me although very small 1-3%.

 

[Midas]

The fact that arabic poetry seems to originate from the coastal part of Arabia where you have this massive influence from horn of africa is I think something that cant be ignored when talking about these two poetry traditions which have no parallel in the other oral traditions found in cushitic or semetic languages.

 

[NidarNidar]

I used to get a SE Asian signal on G25 & other DNA sites. It does seem real for me although very small 1-3%.
View attachment 372253

Something is present and tends to be around coastal areas, Austronesian sailors crossed the Indian Ocean, and introduced crops like bananas, taro, and coconuts to East Africa, and eventually colonised Madagascar.

Now, Bananas have been around East Africa for the past 1,500 - 2,000 years, and originated in Papua New Guinea around 7,000 years ago. So, bananas probably reached southern Somalia between 500–1000 AD, brought by Arab or Austronesian-influenced traders, and became locally integrated over the next few centuries.

 

[Garaad Awal]

Something is present and tends to be around coastal areas, Austronesian sailors crossed the Indian Ocean, and introduced crops like bananas, taro, and coconuts to East Africa, and eventually colonised Madagascar.

Now, Bananas have been around East Africa for the past 1,500 - 2,000 years, and originated in Papua New Guinea around 7,000 years ago. So, bananas probably reached southern Somalia between 500–1000 AD, brought by Arab or Austronesian-influenced traders, and became locally integrated over the next few centuries.

View attachment 372257

Can some of it be indirectly via Southern Yemen? We know the Gulf of Aden Yemenis had strong links with the Malay elites of SE Asia.

 

[NidarNidar]

Can some of it be indirectly via Southern Yemen? We know the Gulf of Aden Yemenis had strong links with the Malay elites of SE Asia.

DNA is rarely straightforward; it is often far more complex than we imagine. For example, the presence of a Malay component in Somali populations could have multiple origins. Historical trade and migration routes, such as those linking Yemen, Hadramawt, and the ports of Cani/Qani and Mocha in the Gulf of Aden alonside the Somali port had constant interactions over the last 2,000 years, and were well-positioned for cross-cultural exchange. This makes it entirely plausible that genetic contributions came from a variety of sources over centuries.

Ancestry is rarely linear it is a mosaic shaped by trade, migration, and human interaction, rather than a simple, singular pathway.