North / south divide . Somaliweyn edition

[Beyle]

Right now in somalia , its pretty much agreed that anything above Galkacyo is the north ( waqooyi ) Beledweyne and below to be the south ( konfuur ) and all in between is central Somalia ( dhexe ) . Of course its a bit more complicated but rough estimations

My question is what you think the north south divide would be if we based it on Somaliweyn . What areas would be grouped together for north/south/east/west . Especially considering how much wider the country would be . Also consider cultural / linguistic differences

 

[El Nino]

There is clear cultural divisions but even more clearer subdivisions within these areas that depend on clan. What I am trying to say is, the general sectors we use (koonfur, galbeed, waqooyi) are great, but they minimise cultural differences that exist. The south especially is referred as being the same by outsiders and even those that hail from the area. That is far from the truth.

Clan is the most important factor in dividing cultural sectors of Somaliweyn. This does not mean there is cultural differences between related clans. There is distinct cultural spheres in Somaliweyn.

The south covers a large area from Beledweyn until to Kismaayo. It is basically the area between
Shabelle and Jubba rivers. There is however clear cultural differences in these areas but due to melting pot cities, the clans meet and share a culture. Each major clan in the south has it is own core area. For example the Raxanweyn have the largest area between these rivers and have a huge cultural differences from the rest of the clans due to a different language.

Main distinct cultural areas of the south is the banaadir coast and RX hinterland. Hawiyes and Daroods have their own respective areas also. The coastal and riverine cities of the south serve as a nexus linking the various clans. The south has clear borders and subdivisions. There is no area from Galbeed or NFD that is directly attached to it.


Waqooyi traditionally refers to the area located between Borama and Laascaanood. To the east of this area, you have Puntland that it is really its own cultural island that shares cultural and clan connections with its brotherly clans located next to it. To the west lies Djibouti, which shares likewise cultural and clan connections with parts of Waqooyi. This is also the case with some areas of Galbeed.


What I am trying to illustrate with these 2 examples is that in my opinion, somaliweyn cannot be placed on north-south scale due to large cultural and clan differences that exist. On the contrary you can place somaliweyn on a north-south scale, that can be measured on what areas interacted with the southern coastal cities and what areas interacted with the northern port cities. The latter classification is useful, but it leaves alot on the table.

 

[Midas]

There is clear cultural divisions but even more clearer subdivisions within these areas that depend on clan. What I am trying to say is, the general sectors we use (koonfur, galbeed, waqooyi) are great, but they minimise cultural differences that exist. The south especially is referred as being the same by outsiders and even those that hail from the area. That is far from the truth.

Clan is the most important factor in dividing cultural sectors of Somaliweyn. This does not mean there is cultural differences between related clans. There is distinct cultural spheres in Somaliweyn.

The south covers a large area from Beledweyn until to Kismaayo. It is basically the area between
Shabelle and Jubba rivers. There is however clear cultural differences in these areas but due to melting pot cities, the clans meet and share a culture. Each major clan in the south has it is own core area. For example the Raxanweyn have the largest area between these rivers and have a huge cultural differences from the rest of the clans due to a different language.

Main distinct cultural areas of the south is the banaadir coast and RX hinterland. Hawiyes and Daroods have their own respective areas also. The coastal and riverine cities of the south serve as a nexus linking the various clans. The south has clear borders and subdivisions. There is no area from Galbeed or NFD that is directly attached to it.


Waqooyi traditionally refers to the area located between Borama and Laascaanood. To the east of this area, you have Puntland that it is really its own cultural island that shares cultural and clan connections with its brotherly clans located next to it. To the west lies Djibouti, which shares likewise cultural and clan connections with parts of Waqooyi. This is also the case with some areas of Galbeed.


What I am trying to illustrate with these 2 examples is that in my opinion, somaliweyn cannot be placed on north-south scale due to large cultural and clan differences that exist. On the contrary you can place somaliweyn on a north-south scale, that can be measured on what areas interacted with the southern coastal cities and what areas interacted with the northern port cities. The latter classification is useful, but it leaves alot on the table.

One thing I've never understood is that why is the dialect on the other side of the ethiopoan border of bakool and bay where the rahaweyn lived not closer to af -maay ?

 

[El Nino]

One thing I've never understood is that why is the dialect on the other side of the ethiopoan border of bakool and bay where the rahaweyn lived not closer to af -maay ?

Clear division and probably lack of interaction between the groups. No shared city or a village.

 

[Medeea]

Here’s my breakdown:

South (Between the Rivers + Large Parts of Galgaduud):
Mostly farmers. Historically under the same empires/sultanates. Less obsessed with clan, more patient, more pleasant and generally more civilized (you can’t judge a society during times of crisis). Also, excellent cuisine.

Northern Galgaduud: Share some similarities with the south but Generally less civilized and have more in common with mudug.

Central / Central West (Mudug + Ogaden Desert + their far south cousins):
90%+ pastoralists until a gen ago. Big time trouble makers. Extremely clannish and racist, with low levels of civility or signs of civilization.

North (Starting from Nugaal to Harti and HA/HJ Lands):
Culturally similar to Central, but even more clannish and with even bigger god complex. Very difficult to live with(even in times of peace) or conduct business in those regions (speaking from my father’s business experience there).

Northwest (Starting from Western Garxajis Land to Djibouti):
Share some similarities with their neighbors but more civilized. Less unhinged and generally keep it to themselves. you can tell they once ran an empire.

Northwestern Hawiye:
Culturally closer to their Oromo neighbors. Hard to categorize.

So overall, I’d say there are 3 major cultural zones: South, Central, and North. With Galgaduud and the far Northwest (W.Garxajis, Awdal and Djibouti) having their own smaller sub-zones.

 

[Midas]

Clear division and probably lack of interaction between the groups. No shared city or a village.

Its still so strange to me since you would expect the dialect spectrum to be located there.

 

[chut]

Here’s my breakdown:

South (Between the Rivers + Large Parts of Galgaduud):
Mostly farmers. Historically under the same empires/sultanates. Less obsessed with clan, more patient, more pleasant and generally more civilized (you can’t judge a society during times of crisis). Also, excellent cuisine.

Northern Galgaduud: Share some similarities with the south but Generally less civilized and have more in common with mudug.

Central / Central West (Mudug + Ogaden Desert + their far south cousins):
90%+ pastoralists until a gen ago. Big time trouble makers. Extremely clannish and racist, with low levels of civility or signs of civilization.

North (Starting from Nugaal to Harti and HA/HJ Lands):
Culturally similar to Central, but even more clannish and with even bigger god complex. Very difficult to live with(even in times of peace) or conduct business in those regions (speaking from my father’s business experience there).

Northwest (Starting from Western Garxajis Land to Djibouti):
Share some similarities with their neighbors but more civilized. Less unhinged and generally keep it to themselves. you can tell they once ran an empire.

Northwestern Hawiye:
Culturally closer to their Oromo neighbors. Hard to categorize.

So overall, I’d say there are 3 major cultural zones: South, Central, and North. With Galgaduud and the far Northwest (W.Garxajis, Awdal and Djibouti) having their own smaller sub-zones.

HJ, HA, and hartis are all different from each other but everything else is good.

I'd add:

North east:
Northern hartis

North central:
Eastern HY and HJ

Northwest:
HA, western HY, other western Isaaq subclans, gadabursi and cisse.

 

[Midas]

The Somali region of Ethiopia is confusing because you have on one hand the most pure pastoralists living there and then on the other hand you have incredibly anicnet urban Somali settlement there like harar.

 

[Som]

The Somali region of Ethiopia is confusing because you have on one hand the most pure pastoralists living there and then on the other hand you have incredibly anicnet urban Somali settlement there like harar.

You also have farmers in the southern part of the region and even the same shabelle river which actually starts in Ethiopia. Southern Somali region is quite similar to neighboring Hiiraan, Bakool etc

 

[reggie]

Northwestern Hawiye:
Culturally closer to their Oromo neighbors. Hard to categorize.

How so? Talking out ur ahh

 

[reggie]

L

HJ, HA, and hartis are all different from each other but everything else is good.

I'd add:

North east:
Northern hartis

North central:
Eastern HY and HJ

Northwest:
HA, western HY, other western Isaaq subclans, gadabursi and cisse.

They said culturally similar not the same. Your just dividing it even further unnecessarily

 

[GALAN]

The Somali region of Ethiopia is confusing because you have on one hand the most pure pastoralists living there and then on the other hand you have incredibly anicnet urban Somali settlement there like harar.

no somalis in Harar pal.

 

[novanova]

no somalis in Harar pal.

He didn’t say there were somalis in Harar, he said Harar is an ancient somali urban settlement.

 

[Riftvalley]

Here’s my breakdown:

South (Between the Rivers + Large Parts of Galgaduud):
Mostly farmers. Historically under the same empires/sultanates. Less obsessed with clan, more patient, more pleasant and generally more civilized (you can’t judge a society during times of crisis). Also, excellent cuisine.

Northern Galgaduud: Share some similarities with the south but Generally less civilized and have more in common with mudug.

Central / Central West (Mudug + Ogaden Desert + their far south cousins):
90%+ pastoralists until a gen ago. Big time trouble makers. Extremely clannish and racist, with low levels of civility or signs of civilization.

North (Starting from Nugaal to Harti and HA/HJ Lands):
Culturally similar to Central, but even more clannish and with even bigger god complex. Very difficult to live with(even in times of peace) or conduct business in those regions (speaking from my father’s business experience there).

Northwest (Starting from Western Garxajis Land to Djibouti):
Share some similarities with their neighbors but more civilized. Less unhinged and generally keep it to themselves. you can tell they once ran an empire.

Northwestern Hawiye:
Culturally closer to their Oromo neighbors. Hard to categorize.

So overall, I’d say there are 3 major cultural zones: South, Central, and North. With Galgaduud and the far Northwest (W.Garxajis, Awdal and Djibouti) having their own smaller sub-zones.

The culture in Burco and perhaps even effecting some neighbouring dhulbahantes is very different from other areas in Somalia. Swearing at someone using Allahs name or the the Deen is one of the most vile aspects of this sub sub culture. Fights break out in these villages and folks are often quick to draw for small daggers or clubs. There is no surprise these groups made up a good portion of the first uk Somali criminal and gangster class.

Good elements of this culture is how they retain poetry, dances, good hospitality to guests…….Some beautiful women as well Sometimes

 

[GALAN]

He didn’t say there were somalis in Harar, he said Harar is an ancient somali urban settlement.

sure kk

 

[Midas]

He didn’t say there were somalis in Harar, he said Harar is an ancient somali urban settlement.

It's both. Somalis were fully purged after li iyasu was taken out in a coup. Ethiopian troops came in to harar and thousands of somalis in harar were systematically hunted down.

But somalis migrated back to haarr after that and even now there is a sizeable pouplation.

 

[GALAN]

It's both. Somalis were fully purged after li iyasu was taken out in a coup. Ethiopian troops came in to harar and thousands of somalis in harar were systematically hunted down.

But somalis migrated back to haarr after that and even now there is a sizeable pouplation.

if Somalis were hunted down why weren't Oromos? Haile Selassie was far more anti oromo then somali.

 

[Riftvalley]

It's both. Somalis were fully purged after li iyasu was taken out in a coup. Ethiopian troops came in to harar and thousands of somalis in harar were systematically hunted down.

But somalis migrated back to haarr after that and even now there is a sizeable pouplation.

Many Somalis died in the last big battle to save Harar. But don’t encourage the troll. This thread will descend into another debate about Somalis/Harar/Oromo. The OP intended this for another subject.

 

[Midas]

if Somalis were hunted down why weren't Oromos? Haile Selassie was far more anti oromo then somali.

Because Somalis were and have always been seen as far more of a threat to the ruling power in ethiopia than any other people in ethiopia. Plus it doesn't help that somali elites were supporting iyasu and there was all those rumors of him converting to Islam.

 

[Midas]

Many Somalis died in the last big battle to save Harar. But don’t encourage the troll. This thread will descend into another debate about Somalis/Harar/Oromo. The OP intended this for another subject.

Yeah i won't. Im just making him understand that somalis are fundamentally seen as enemy number one by the ruling elites of ethiopia.
The most heavily militarized and monitored region of Ethiopia is the somali region up until recently.