Nilotic the thread

[Nilotic]

I literally posted a generic report and sourced image from the 19th century. If you have any specific question feel free to ask but if you just wanna bark then piss off

The genetic report does not agree with you. It doesn't content that Nubians owe their Eurasian admixture to the 3000 year old admixture event that Horn African populations experienced.

The Dinka started their migrations out of the North in the 13th century and all our sections and clans completed the relocations to their new homelands in the South in the 1600s.

There were no Dinka in Rufaa almost 300 years later and the illustration cannot possibly be showing Dinka tribes people being raided for slaves in Rufaa when we had departed to the South centuries earlier.

The illustration may be from 1872; it may be showing raids on Dinka tribes people... but it certainly isn't showing raids on Dinka people in Rufaa almost 3 centuries after we left the North.

 

[Asaana]

The genetic report does not agree with you. It doesn't content that Nubians owe their Eurasian admixture to the 3000 year old admixture event that Horn African populations experienced.

The Dinka started their migrations out of the North in the 13th century and all our sections and clans completed the relocations to their new homelands in the South in the 1600s.

There were no Dinka in Rufaa almost 300 years later and the illustration cannot possibly be showing Dinka tribes people being raided for slaves in Rufaa when we had departed to the South centuries earlier.

The illustration may be from 1872; it may be showing raids on Dinka tribes people... but it certainly isn't showing raids on Dinka people in Rufaa almost 3 centuries after we left the North.

So there were no Dinkas in the North around 1872? Seriously? Even after the Dinkas got their own country in 2011 you still see them building huts and shanty towns south of Khartoum so I don’t know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[Nilotic]

Yeah I don’t buy the gun excuse, Nilotes were just worse at fighting wars. This is why as recently as the 90s they often found themselves victims of slavery despite being armed by Israel and the west.

Yes, let's just ignore the fact that the entire world was conquered by those who had guns just so that you can distract from the fact that all your claims were systematically refuted.


Why is that Northerners like to pretend that they suffer from some sort of collective amnesia on these matters? You (not us) were the biggest recipients of U.S. military aid in Africa after Egypt until just before 1990, and this is precisely how you acquired C-130 Hercules aircraft and M60 Patton tanks.

We were aligned with the Soviets and they were collapsing leading up to the 90s; Khartoum used arms from the Arab world, Russia and China and purchased Sukhoi and MIG bombers, fighter jets, rocket and conventional artillery and hundreds of tanks with which to fight an army without any of these things and yet we never gave up...

..We're the ones that convinced the Beja to rise up in the East; the Nuba, Blue Nile and even Darfur all owe their recently acquired seats at the table to the resistance we pioneered. They would all be still cowering at the feet of half castes if it wasn't for us.

There is nothing you can say that will have an impact on me, for obvious reasons.

Thankfully this practice ended, but sadly Dinka, Nuer, and Shilluk women in the North are notorious for engaging in prostitution (sometimes even for free) and working as maids for meager wages. The men work as laborers, and I believe they get paid but I know that historically they work for food not money; I heard from a horner friend whose mother invested in S. Sudan shortly after independence that workers only expect food not money so unfortunately this disgusting practice last(ed) longer than I expected.

You're obviously lashing out, and so you think resorting to lies and slander will somehow help you assuage whatever is you're feeling right now after I provided my sources.

You've essentially allowed emotion to cloud your judgement and deprive you of whatever scruples you had prior to asserting that our women prostituted themselves and did so for free no less -- as though it were a hobby of sorts. You've debased yourself further than these completely non-existent women you've conjured up.

Catching you in a lie is a bit like harpooning a goldfish. You keep the stuff at such a looney level, that it can't be taken seriously, so I don’t think it can work, even on a petty level.

so there were no Dinkas in the North around 1872? Seriously? Even after the Dinkas got their own country in 2011 you still see them building huts and shanty towns south of Khartoum so I don’t know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

There were no Dinka in the North after the 1600s and your inability to understand this simple fact is mind boggling.

Tell me you at least understand that the return of Southerners to the North (starting in the 1960s) doesn't prove their presence in Rufaa in 1872.

Explain to me how that little arrow leads from the former to the latter, if you could...

..But wait, you can’t… because to any normal human being the logic of your argument is broken — very, very broken.

I'll leave you to it and will no longer engage with you after this post, so I invite you to reveal more of yourself.

 

[Asaana]

Yes, let's just ignore the fact that the entire world was conquered by those who had guns just so that you can distract from the fact that all your claims were systematically refuted.


Why is that Northerners like to pretend that they suffer from some sort of collective amnesia on these matters? You (not us) were the biggest recipients of U.S. military aid in Africa after Egypt until just before 1990, and this is precisely how you acquired C-130 Hercules aircraft and M60 Patton tanks.

We were aligned with the Soviets and they were collapsing leading up to the 90s; Khartoum used arms from the Arab world, Russia and China and purchased Sukhoi and MIG bombers, fighter jets, rocket and conventional artillery and hundreds of tanks with which to fight an army without any of these things and yet we never gave up...

..We're the ones that convinced the Beja to rise up in the East; the Nuba, Blue Nile and even Darfur all owe their recently acquired seats at the table to the resistance we pioneered. They would all be still cowering at the feet of half castes if it wasn't for us.

There is nothing you can say that will have an impact on me, for obvious reasons.

Yeah but even before Northerners had guns and all those war equipment you mentioned they still dominated Dinkas/Nuers/Shilluk. There's no shame in having inferior strategy, especially when your enemies have the advantage of coming from more developed civilizations.

Blue Nile and to a lesser extent Darfurians were inspired by Southern rebels but not Beja lol it's quite funny how you'd even make such a bold statement. They're the same ones that fought alongside the Mahdi and participated in government... Their grievances are with the Nubawi and of course the Hadendoa vs Beni-Amer feud which involves Eritrea.

You're obviously lashing out, and so you think resorting to lies and slander will somehow help you assuage whatever is you're feeling right now after I provided my sources.

You've essentially allowed emotion to cloud your judgement and deprive you of whatever scruples you had prior to asserting that our women prostituted themselves and did so for free no less -- as though it were a hobby of sorts. You've debased yourself further than these completely non-existent women you've conjured up.

Catching you in a lie is a bit like harpooning a goldfish. You keep the stuff at such a looney level, that it can't be taken seriously, so I don’t think it can work, even on a petty level.

So i'm lying? Is the article I posted fake news? Are Dinka women not notorious for being cheap and loose? Clearly you've never been to Khartoum so i'll give you a sample.

There were no Dinka in the North after the 1600s and your inability to understand this simple fact is mind boggling.

Tell me you at least understand that the return of Southerners to the North (starting in the 1960s) doesn't prove their presence in Rufaa in 1872.

Explain to me how that little arrow leads from the former to the latter, if you could...

..But wait, you can’t… because to any normal human being the logic of your argument is broken — very, very broken.

I'll leave you to it and will no longer engage with you after this post, so I invite you to reveal more of yourself.

How is it a simple fact when there are zero sources to disprove it - if anything there's evidence that Dinkas were up North in the 1800s even if their numbers rapidly declined after 1600s. Your inability to understand this simple fact is mind boggling.

More Southerners moved up North in the 1960s but they never abandoned the North 100% after the 1600s. I know denialism leads to delusion but you really can't be that delusional.

Ironically enough to any normal human being their is no logic behind your denialism other than the fact that you're being emotional and defensive. Anyways i'm proud that you're finally dropping this, enjoy your weekend.

 

[Nilotic]

Yeah but even before Northerners had guns and all those war equipment you mentioned they still dominated Dinkas/Nuers/Shilluk.

If you had evidence of any kind relating to this, why is it that your posts consists only of rhetoric, but not of actual evidence?

We effectively resisted the Turko-Egyptians for decades on end; we kicked the Mahdists out of Bahr el Ghazal; we also resisted the British...but we somehow couldn't handle your cuckolded Nubian ancestors?

The British had little impact on most of the Nilotes in southern Sudan for the first several decades after the reconquest in 1899. The first two officers sent to deal with them were both killed in 1919 by the Dinka and in 1927 by the Nuer, respectively. (Ethnic Groups of Africa and the Middle East: An Encyclopedia)

There's no shame in having inferior strategy, especially when your enemies have the advantage of coming from more developed civilizations.

You’re right, there isn't any shame in it... but you actually need to prove it first. You need to prove that Nilotics were subject to domination at the hands of the Nubians.

It's not as though our sisters and daughters were voluntarily given to invading men like tic tacs in order to obviate further military conflict; it's not as if we experienced systematic dispossession of our land through this dynamic; it's not as if we stood idly by while our place and power in our own lands was chipped away through the use of our own sisters and daughters by hostile foreign men.

I suppose fighting and dying for Arab Gulf States in their regional proxy wars in Yemen and Libya is your special way of honouring your ancient heritage.

Blue Nile and to a lesser extent Darfurians were inspired by Southern rebels but not Beja lol it's quite funny how you'd even make such a bold statement.

Ah, yes, more evidence of your ignorance on Sudanese history. I'm not surprised... you actually thought Nilotics were "hunter gatherers".

UNMIS said Kassala is the first sector where the mission has successfully completed its mandated tasks with the withdrawal of all SPLA forces - around 5,600 troops - from Eastern Sudan to the South, as called for in the Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA) signed in 2005 by the Government and the Sudan People's Liberation Movement/Army.

Source: https://reliefweb.int/report/sudan/...orces-un-mission-leaves-kassala-eastern-sudan

It's clear that you didn't even know that we (Southerners) opened up a front in the east and established military outposts in that region. We had to withdraw 5, 600 Southern troops from the east in 2006, per the terms of the peace agreement.

You're actually trying to frame the Beja rebellion as a result of petty local conflicts instead of what it was... a regional movement with National dimensions that it established through its alliances with the SPLM/A, the NDA and Darfurian rebels. The Beja pinned their grievances onto the central government and complained of marginalisation.

The SPLA had been making gains in the east. They had joined forces with a united brigade sponsored by the NDA and they both allied with insurgents from the Beja Congress. The Beja, who are Muslim non-Arabs, consisted of four main clans. One of them was the famously warlike Hadendowa, whom the British had named the 'Fuzzy-Wuzzies' because of the distinctive Afro hairstyles, and who were famed for breaking a British square. The Beja people’s cattle had suffered severely in the drought years and some of their land had been seized by Khartoum and sold to a new class of mechanized farmers, as well as large tracts to Osama Bin Laden. The Beja insurgency had been revived in 1994. In 1999 and 2000 the combine opposition forces overwhelmed a number of army garrisons around the strategic border town of Kassala. The eastern front was now posing a major threat to the government. (Omar Al-Bashir and Africa's Longest War)

So i'm lying? Is the article I posted fake news? Are Dinka women not notorious for being cheap and loose? Clearly you've never been to Khartoum so i'll give you a sample.

Yes, you're so clearly lying. You've proven yourself to be a pathological liar.

Assuming you don't have cripplling comprehension issues, did you even bother to read that article, or are you just (predictably) hoping that third party observers will believe you that the source corroborates your lies about Nilotic women being lascivious and cheap? Please cite passages from that article that say anything to the effect that:

Nilotic women are "notorious" for engaging in prostitution.

That there is an epidemic of Nilotic women engaging in prostitution in Khartoum-Omdurman or anywhere else in the North.

Here are some passages from your own article:

I was captured in 1986, I know how long ago it was because I counted the harvests. My father was killed in the attack on our village. The man who took me away came on horseback. My hands were tied and I was made walk for seven days with the other children they had taken.

The master already had a wife but he made me become his wife as well. At first I used to cry when he forced himself on me. If I refused to sleep with him he used to beat me with a thick stick. His other wife was jealous and used to fight with me. When my daughter was born, she was named Amina and when she was old enough they made her look after the goats and go long distances to get water. My son was named Hamid".

Your entire argument hinges on pretending not to understand the difference between sexual abuse in the context of slavery and actual prostitution.

Do you not know the difference? To you it all sounds the same, doesn't it?

Prove that you are not as clueless as you appear to be; explain the difference- between the two... Or, you know, reveal that you're a sociopath.

Another passage from the article:

I hate these people, I'm very angry at what they did," Nyamada told me before walking off into the bush in search of her village. "Now I just want to find my mother. She's old now but I think I will recognise her."

Perhaps that sounds like prostitution to your Afro-Arab ears, but no else would agree.

Your women are so chaste that refugee Syrian men boasted of their sexual trysts with Sudanese women and how easy it was for them...

..hmm, it happened again, didn't it? At least they weren't given away to Arab men by Nubian fathers this time round.

How is it a simple fact when there are zero sources to disprove it - if anything there's evidence that Dinkas were up North in the 1800s even if their numbers rapidly declined after 1600s. Your inability to understand this simple fact is mind boggling.

More Southerners moved up North in the 1960s but they never abandoned the North 100% after the 1600s. I know denialism leads to delusion but you really can't be that delusional.

Ironically enough to any normal human being their is no logic behind your denialism other than the fact that you're being emotional and defensive. Anyways i'm proud that you're finally dropping this, enjoy your weekend.

The rules of evidence don't work like that.

If the evidence for your claims are so strong, then surely you can provide mountains of grit-edged evidence that Dinka people still resided as far North as Rufaa in 1872.

You merely provided an illustration without any texts or sources referencing the Dinka, and you expect me to just believe you that it took place in Rufaa in 1872 based on nothing but your say so?

You obviously expect people to believe claims that run counter to historical consensus without a shred of evidence. The consensus is that we left the North in the 1600s.


You have yet to produce any quote, cite any scholar, or produce anything at all in support of your claim.

You have presented nothing.

Must be lonely.



Your post is just a mealy-mouthed admission that you’ve got no evidence of Dinka people being raided in Rufaa in 1872. Claims *always* require evidence, and if you can’t provide evidence when required, then you have no case...

You are obligated to substantiate your claims. It’s called burden of proof. If you can’t meet this requirement, then all you’ve provided us with is a view that you want to believe in, but do not actually understand and so cannot explain.

Gezira State:

You denied that the Nubae-Nobatae were the Nubians of antiquity and claimed that they were enslaved into extinction

You denied Nubian men gave their women to Arab men

You denied that Nubian men were dispossessed and supplanted by Arab men, so...

..You’re projecting.

In psychological terms, projectionism is when someone projects their own noxious qualities onto someone else, and then censures the recipient for now apparently possessing those noxious qualities.


This has been me throughout this thread:

 

[yaqir]

You niggas still typing in this thread

 

[Asaana]

I stopped reading after you assumed my ancestors are Nubian, anyways didn’t you say you’ll no longer engage me... Yet proceeded to write 20 paragraphs

 

[Nomadite]

Just ask your Tutsi grandfather that gave your mom to a Hutu lol. It's ironic how you cried about my lack of sources but believe his unsourced one liner troll statement.

Anyways I respect Nilotic for admitting that his knowledge on Northerners is shabby. Those same "Afro-Arabs" he's referring to language shifted for administrative reasons not "centuries of intermarriage" - that's why tribes closer to Khartoum have been speaking Arabic longer with the Jaali Nubian dialect going extinct as recently as the late 19th century (source: Kingdoms of the Sudan, R. S. O'Fahey 1974).

As for Haplogroup-J it's common for all Northern Cushites and predates both the Nubian and Arab identities. source

Im not Rwandini so idk what the first part was about. I have heard the claim about the Nubians giving up their daughters more then 2x which is why I inquired for info.

 

[Nomadite]

I base it on primary sources from the period, particularly Ibn Khaldun. Here are the citations.













The genetic studies also play a role.

PS: Apologies for the late response.

Makes zero sense they would give up their women, their means of inheritance, to foreigners.

 

[Asaana]

Makes zero sense they would give up their women, their means of inheritance, to foreigners.

He used cherry-picked primary sources to advance his argument despite the fact that intermarriage between Arabs and Nubians happened both ways.
If anything it was easier for Arab women to marry Nubian men, so poor Arab nomads were able to climb the socioeconomic latter by marrying off their daughters. Arab men of course married Nubian women but they were far more likely to be Hijazi nobility (source: London, 1905). That explains why the most Arabized Nubian tribe, the Jaaliyn embrace their Arab paternal ancestry instead of resenting it like Black Americans with European ancestry or Dinkas with an Arab great-grandpa.