GENETICS My results.....

[Garaad Awal]

@The alchemist @Garaad Awal

I think i've been using less accurate g25 cords maybe it was the wrong website?, i've asked the owner of g25 for mine and he gave me it.

The previous cords, aren't "real cords" per say. They seem to just be a proxy, from what i've read. Very frustrating

Further apologies

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Your Arabian seems very low tbh. I think your father might have been a Berber possible from Eastern Algeria.

 

[Garaad Awal]

Are scaled and raw the same?

I'll give you my raw

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Scaled works best. Where in Algeria is your family from?

 

[Doctorabdi]

Scaled works best. Where in Algeria is your family from?

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[Doctorabdi]

Scaled works best. Where in Algeria is your family from?

For some reason when I try to scale it and closely (0.0700) my berber dna decreases but my european and tigrayian ancestry increases

 

[Garaad Awal]

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[Doctorabdi]

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Your Arabian seems very low tbh. I think your father might have been a Berber possible from Eastern Algeria.

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The fit seems very close

 

[Doctorabdi]

 

[Doctorabdi]

@Garaad Awal
Do you get similar results, when using the same populations I did?

 

[Garaad Awal]

@Garaad Awal
Do you get similar results, when using the same populations I did?

When you use all pops, the results get wonky due to overfit.

 

[Doctorabdi]

When you use all pops, the results get wonky due to overfit.

View attachment 360792

I see I used four populations in the second screenshot, is it overfitting or?

 

[Garaad Awal]

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Thats better but the Northern Horn ancestry is just caused by overfitting.

 

[The alchemist]

Makes sense, is there a difference between my actual g25 cords and the simulated proxy ones? I'm not well versed in g25 as well as you sxb

Way less Arab, unusually higher end of the Anatolian Neolithic related component, and Iberomaurusuan on the decent amount. If there is no mysterious association between ANF and IBM that lowers Arab, then you seem to be very North African with Berber. Something tells me a minor portion that falls within the ANF is owed to something from the East Mediterranean on a minor level or post-Historic Iberia with a slight overall Mediterranean signature.

 

[Doctorabdi]

Way less Arab, unusually higher end of the Anatolian Neolithic related component, and Iberomaurusuan on the decent amount. If there is no mysterious association between ANF and IBM that lowers Arab, then you seem to be very North African with Berber. Something tells me a minor portion that falls within the ANF is owed to something from the East Mediterranean on a minor level or post-Historic Iberia with a slight overall Mediterranean signature.

Makes sense, indeed there does seem to be some sort of minor european med related component. I wonder if that has to do with migrations, from al andalus or merely historic merchants from italy for example. If i'm not wrong, the whole sfax region of tunisia seems to be highly admixed with european ancestry

 

[Doctorabdi]

View attachment 360786
View attachment 360787

Your Arabian seems very low tbh. I think your father might have been a Berber possible from Eastern Algeria.

View attachment 360788
View attachment 360789

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[Doctorabdi]

Way less Arab, unusually higher end of the Anatolian Neolithic related component, and Iberomaurusuan on the decent amount. If there is no mysterious association between ANF and IBM that lowers Arab, then you seem to be very North African with Berber. Something tells me a minor portion that falls within the ANF is owed to something from the East Mediterranean on a minor level or post-Historic Iberia with a slight overall Mediterranean signature.

Oh, may I see the g25 results if you don't mind?

 

[The alchemist]

Makes sense, indeed there does seem to be some sort of minor european med related component. I wonder if that has to do with migrations, from al andalus or merely historic merchants from italy for example. If i'm not wrong, the whole sfax region of tunisia seems to be highly admixed with european ancestry

Yh, it seems to be something from Iberia that is from the Islamic period that had some layers of Eastern Mediterranean ancestry, or something from the Eastern Mediterranean itself, which includes Italy. It's hard to tell with such low values where it is exactly from (I have not delved too deep into this region), but Islamic Spain and/or older layers from the eastern Mediterranean, due to Roman influence, could be it.

To be honest, North Africa is highly southern European mixed in general. There is a Neolithic layer, then you have the Punic stuff, Iberian, Roman... The latter are not signnificant but come in minor substructure form. But the Neolithic stuff is significant.

 

[The alchemist]

Oh, may I see the g25 results if you don't mind?

Bro, I did many results to ascertain that. If you take your score and replace the Tigrinya with Somali (since it only takes the Cushitic) or the latest one, you have a nice result. It's between 9-5% of that extra stuff. But besides that you're pretty much an Algerian with Somali mixture.

The Italian is a mixed component. It probably draws in some extra ANF and other West Asian stuff from the Levant and Caucasus. And you should consider that to be within the North African diversity as well. It reflects your history.

Arabs were heavily mixed. You could be the result of a Berberized Arab that diluted your stuff because of mixing with Berbers. You saw these things in the Western Desert of Sudan, where Arabs maintained Arab culture mixed with Saharan women over and over again to not deal with high inbreeding, and they turned out looking almost no different than the Saharan themselves, despite being very distinct in culture, language, etc. Many Baggara Arabs are like that.

Or you had it with the Nubian element. Where some Shaigiya look almost indisignuishable from a Nubian but they descend from Arab progenitors that paternally maintained a culture and language distinct from Nubian, yet married Nubian women to also not inbreed. Also to probably solidify power and influence by marrying local daughters of Nubian men of influence.

Although for all these groups, you can find a substantial Arab ancestral retention. They're not all just Sudanese people who look no different than Nubians or Saharans. Many have significant amounts in some aspects of the pool that are much higher than people would think.

History is a bit more complex than Arab or not Arab, and your results do not necessarily mean that you don't have Arab history. You do have some Arab stuff, although it is lower than before.

 

[Garaad Awal]

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Some entire tribes become Arabophone like the Jebala Berbers of Northern Morocco. Genetically they are basically Berber + significant S.Euro ancestry yet identify as Arab speakers but culturally maintain way too many Amazigh customs and they have been like that for centuries. Arab ancestry eventually diffuses tho so most Berbers today have some Natufian signal in their dna except super isolated tribes.

Also people don’t realize but Arab clans have been in some parts of the Maghreb absorbed by larger Berber confederations. I have read of historical cases in Morocco of that happening. I have also seen a few Berbers who ended up in Arabian clades of J-p58 including one of those rabid Berber nationalists

 

[Doctorabdi]

Bro, I did many results to ascertain that. If you take your score and replace the Tigrinya with Somali (since it only takes the Cushitic) or the latest one, you have a nice result. It's between 9-5% of that extra stuff. But besides that you're pretty much an Algerian with Somali mixture.
View attachment 360864

The Italian is a mixed component. It probably draws in some extra ANF and other West Asian stuff from the Levant and Caucasus. And you should consider that to be within the North African diversity as well. It reflects your history.

Arabs were heavily mixed. You could be the result of a Berberized Arab that diluted your stuff because of mixing with Berbers. You saw these things in the Western Desert of Sudan, where Arabs maintained Arab culture mixed with Saharan women over and over again to not deal with high inbreeding, and they turned out looking almost no different than the Saharan themselves, despite being very distinct in culture, language, etc. Many Baggara Arabs are like that.

Or you had it with the Nubian element. Where some Shaigiya look almost indisignuishable from a Nubian but they descend from Arab progenitors that paternally maintained a culture and language distinct from Nubian, yet married Nubian women to also not inbreed. Also to probably solidify power and influence by marrying local daughters of Nubian men of influence.

Although for all these groups, you can find a substantial Arab ancestral retention. They're not all just Sudanese people who look no different than Nubians or Saharans. Many have significant amounts in some aspects of the pool that are much higher than people would think.

History is a bit more complex than Arab or not Arab, and your results do not necessarily mean that you don't have Arab history. You do have some Arab stuff, although it is lower than before.

Oh no, I didn't mean to insult i'm just a total noob when it comes to g25 and I was making sure my fits were close enough. I'm very thankful for what you have done for me genuinely, much of my own knowledge in regards to history and genetics is all thanks to you.

 

[Doctorabdi]

Yh, it seems to be something from Iberia that is from the Islamic period that had some layers of Eastern Mediterranean ancestry, or something from the Eastern Mediterranean itself, which includes Italy. It's hard to tell with such low values where it is exactly from (I have not delved too deep into this region), but Islamic Spain and/or older layers from the eastern Mediterranean, due to Roman influence, could be it.

To be honest, North Africa is highly southern European mixed in general. There is a Neolithic layer, then you have the Punic stuff, Iberian, Roman... The latter are not signnificant but come in minor substructure form. But the Neolithic stuff is significant.

This reminds me a lot of the recent carthaginians/punic raw results, that are very southern european-like or very shifted. Although they adopted the punic gods, language etc they were virtually had little actual levantine ancestry. Very intriguing stuff