My Problem With Islam

[Kratos]

How can you compare your thoughts of right and wrong with the divine knowledge of Allah(swt)?.

You're assuming that Allah exists and that he has given us an objective set of moral values. That viewpoint is unsubstantiated. You need to prove that your god exists in order for your question to be a valid one. Otherwise our thoughts of right and wrong hold the same weight as your supposed god's. After all, it is you who believes that there is a being with divine knowledge so you can't compare your thoughts of right and wrong with his.

 

[Neslihan]

You're assuming that Allah exists and that he has given us an objective set of moral values. That viewpoint is unsubstantiated. You need to prove that your god exists in order for your question to be a valid one. Otherwise our thoughts of right and wrong hold the same weight as your supposed god's. After all, it is you who believes that there is a being with divine knowledge so you can't compare your thoughts of right and wrong with his.

The guy who posted this thread didn't doubt religion because there wasn't proof about divinity but because he 'disagree' on account of difference in concept of justice. So I say the truth is self evident in this matter. An omniscient being versus temporally limited human, no brainer whose judgement is superior.

 

[Kratos]

The guy who posted this thread didn't doubt religion because there wasn't proof about divinity but because he 'disagree' on account of difference in concept of justice. So I say the truth is self evident in this matter. An omniscient being versus temporally limited human, no brainer whose judgement is superior.

He also mentioned that he couldn't accept the "blatant fallacies in the Quran". That line of reasoning challenges the notion that a divine all-knowing being exists. It's a mix of both

 

[Neslihan]

He also mentioned that he couldn't accept the "blatant fallacies in the Quran". That line of reasoning challenges the notion that a divine all-knowing being exists. It's a mix of both

No the 'fallacies' he sees is result from his inability to reconcile what I mention in the post before

 

[Kratos]

No the 'fallacies' he sees is result from his inability to reconcile what I mention in the post before

Those aren't fallacies though. Maybe it was a case of misusing terms but I assumed that the fallacies he mentioned were unrelated to the moral arguments since he has made threads before on logical fallacies in the Quran. One very recently too. Seems like a stand-alone argument. Besides the moral argument was based on a Hadith, not the Quran.

 

[Neslihan]

Those aren't fallacies though. Maybe it was a case of misusing terms but I assumed that the fallacies he mentioned were unrelated to the moral arguments since he has made threads before on logical fallacies in the Quran. One very recently too. Seems like a stand-alone argument. Besides the moral argument was based on a Hadith, not the Quran.

His moral dilemma only arise because he don't trust enough in the divine perfection of Allah(swt) and his judgement.

 

[Life]

Will a good Buddhist go to heaven or hell, based on the tenets of Islam, yes or no?

It depends what kind of Buddhist you are. there are no criteria for the belief of god and matter of fact Buddha himself didn't believe in a god. He believed that the idea of God originated in fear. He said:

"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".

Buddist teaching is more centred around the way of life. It is more of a philosophy. It is a philosophy because philosophy simply mean the study of knowledge. Buddha in search for the true religion came to a middle path and preached about his enlightenment. The basic concept of what he was teaching can be summed up by the four noble truth. He basically believed that the reason for human suffering is craving and aversion. That if we don't get what we want, what we crave, then we suffer. He believed that the solution for all of this was, to become happy was to give up our useless cravings and live life one day at the time.

That is the essence of Buddhism. The most important thing in Islam is that you have to believe in ONE God. If you choose to follow buddhas way of life on top of believing in ONE god and you are a GOOD person, then I don't see why you wouldn't go to Jannah.

 

[Omar del Sur]

It depends what kind of Buddhist you are. there are no criteria for the belief of god and matter of fact Buddha himself didn't believe in a god. He believed that the idea of God originated in fear. He said:

"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and

I don't believe this or the whole take on Buddhism.

Hussain Yee has actually said this is false and he is Chinese and from a Buddhist background.

I think it is a version of Buddhism designed to appeal to Westerners.

I think Buddhists generally tend to believe in reincarnation and various supernatural stuff. I am not an expert but I do think Buddha believed in God and in the supernatural. I don't think he was an atheist.

 

[Omar del Sur]

It depends what kind of Buddhist you are. there are no criteria for the belief of god and matter of fact Buddha himself didn't believe in a god. He believed that the idea of God originated in fear. He said:

"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".

Buddist teaching is more centred around the way of life. It is more of a philosophy. It is a philosophy because philosophy simply mean the study of knowledge. Buddha in search for the true religion came to a middle path and preached about his enlightenment. The basic concept of what he was teaching can be summed up by the four noble truth. He basically believed that the reason for human suffering is craving and aversion. That if we don't get what we want, what we crave, then we suffer. He believed that the solution for all of this was, to become happy was to give up our useless cravings and live life one day at the time.

That is the essence of Buddhism. The most important thing in Islam is that you have to believe in ONE God. If you choose to follow buddhas way of life on top of believing in ONE god and you are a GOOD person, then I don't see why you wouldn't go to Jannah.

Wait.... what???????

I didn't even read the whole post. I was just responding to what I saw.

Anyways, now I'm seeing more and I think.... wow. I don't want to say for sure because I try to avoid making takfir... but I do think what you say constitutes kufr.

According to IslamQA:

Whoever does not believe that the kaafirs are kaafirs is himself a kaafir

Question
Is it true that anyone who does not accept that kuffaar are kuffaar is a kaafir himself, even if he prays, believes in the Qur'aan, and the Prophet Muhammad ( )? If so, what is the proof for this? Can a person insist on believing that Jews and Christians can be believers and go to heaven after being shown clear evidence against this, and still be considered a Muslim?


Answer

Praise be to Allaah.

Yes, this is correct. Whoever is not convinced that the person who disbelieves in the religion of Allaah is a kaafir, does not believe what Allaah has told us about their being kaafirs, and he does not believe that the religion of Islam abrogates all previous religions and that all people must follow this religion no matter what their religion was before.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers [Aal Imraan 3:85]

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/6688/whoever-does-not-believe-that-the-kaafirs-are-kaafirs-is-himself-a-kaafir

Before anyone accuses me of being a takfiri or anything like that... I'm not declaring anyone to be a kaffir. But..... I do think the post constitutes apostasy.

 

[Omar del Sur]

http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Was_Buddha_An_Atheist?


This stuff is basically gibberish mumbo jumbo to me but I don't think Buddha was an atheist...

In modern times some scholars have interpreted the Buddha’s silence on the issue of the existence of Godas atheistic. In their opinion, Buddha refused to answer any questions regarding the existence of the Divine Reality and the Soul (Atman or Jivatman), and therefore they have concluded that Buddha was an atheist.


However, in my opinion these kinds of conclusions demonstrate limited knowledge and ignorance about the essence of the Buddhist texts.

In fact, Buddhist literature contains multiple references to the soul (atta or atman), the Lord (Natha), and the maker of the body.

Examples can be found even in the fairly short bookDhammapada, where Buddha elaborates on Soul or self (atta):

"The atman is the lord of atman. What else could be the Lord? When the individual self jiivatman) is well subdued, a man finds the Lord (Natha) who is difficult to fathom" (Dhammapada 12/4).


Some scholars have interpreted the word ’lord’ in this verse as if it literally means ’lordship’. However, even a cursory examination of the words in Pali, the original language of these texts, yields the true meaning.

In Pali the word ’lord’ is in the second case accusative, and therefore it would best be translated as ’to the lord’.

The noted Buddhist scholar Bhikshu Rahul Sankrityayan has explained this in his rendering of this verse of the Dhammapada:


"A man is the lord of himself Who else then could be the lord? If the self is wholly disciplined then he is able to attain a lord who is difficult to be attained."

Buddha addresses the creator of the body: "Oh maker of the house I have seen you."


(Jaravaggo)


"Impermanence" of Buddhism and "Maya" of the VedicDharma

 

[Hybrid]

Islam is not the truth buddy, its just a book written by some man who basically plagiarized Christianity

all religions are important constituents of cultures and I respect that. however Islam is very outdated. so many superstition is wrapped up in this arabian religion

 

[Life]

I don't believe this or the whole take on Buddhism.

Hussain Yee has actually said this is false and he is Chinese and from a Buddhist background.

I think it is a version of Buddhism designed to appeal to Westerners.

I think Buddhists generally tend to believe in reincarnation and various supernatural stuff. I am not an expert but I do think Buddha believed in God and in the supernatural. I don't think he was an atheist.

Buddhism at its core is a way of life. Buddha himself was born in Nepal and died in India. We know those regions have a majority Hindu population and Hinduism originated from those areas. Since it is more of a philosophy rather than a religion it wouldn't be weird how Buddhist from Asia have some teaching that relates to Hinduism like believing in reincarnation. Buddism looks different from country to country.

http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Was_Buddha_An_Atheist?


This stuff is basically gibberish mumbo jumbo to me but I don't think Buddha was an atheist...

In modern times some scholars have interpreted the Buddha’s silence on the issue of the existence of Godas atheistic. In their opinion, Buddha refused to answer any questions regarding the existence of the Divine Reality and the Soul (Atman or Jivatman), and therefore they have concluded that Buddha was an atheist.


However, in my opinion these kinds of conclusions demonstrate limited knowledge and ignorance about the essence of the Buddhist texts.

In fact, Buddhist literature contains multiple references to the soul (atta or atman), the Lord (Natha), and the maker of the body.

Examples can be found even in the fairly short bookDhammapada, where Buddha elaborates on Soul or self (atta):

"The atman is the lord of atman. What else could be the Lord? When the individual self jiivatman) is well subdued, a man finds the Lord (Natha) who is difficult to fathom" (Dhammapada 12/4).


Some scholars have interpreted the word ’lord’ in this verse as if it literally means ’lordship’. However, even a cursory examination of the words in Pali, the original language of these texts, yields the true meaning.

In Pali the word ’lord’ is in the second case accusative, and therefore it would best be translated as ’to the lord’.

The noted Buddhist scholar Bhikshu Rahul Sankrityayan has explained this in his rendering of this verse of the Dhammapada:


"A man is the lord of himself Who else then could be the lord? If the self is wholly disciplined then he is able to attain a lord who is difficult to be attained."

Buddha addresses the creator of the body: "Oh maker of the house I have seen you."


(Jaravaggo)


"Impermanence" of Buddhism and "Maya" of the VedicDharma

Whether he was an atheist or not is all speculation. We actually don't know for certain. According to the Buddhist literature, the Buddha’s family were Kshatriyas which is a Hindu cast. The word Hindu didn't exist during the time of Buddha however, the religion itself did. We know that Buddha was from the ruling family at the time, he was a prince. They were very wealthy and he was probably raised in a religious household. Although born a prince, he realized that conditioned experiences could not provide lasting happiness or protection from suffering. After a long spiritual search, he went into deep meditation, where he realized the nature of mind. He achieved the state of unconditional and lasting happiness: the state of enlightenment, of Buddhahood.

His teaching was very 'self' centred and that, I believe is the reason as to why he never officially spoke about a divine being. I believe that at a young age his family indoctrinated their beliefs on him and after he was "enlightened" as they say, he still had traces of his old belief in his new way of life. But also, it seems that he believed in a inner power, in each individual. I believe that he believed that one could control itself and that is why he believed in the deprivation of things you crave or enjoy.

There might be a phycological reason as to why he would come to these conclusions. I have read somewhere that his family, especially his father was very controlling and that Buddha actually ran away from his home. He felt like his father controlled his whole life. His father wanted Buddha to take over after him and tried therefor his best to push him towards that direction. His father tried to provide him with a very luxurious lifestyle. and that's probably why he talks alot about the fact that "money doesn't bring you happiness". And that might also be the reason as to why he would believe that " a man is a Lord himself". Because he wanted to believe that everyone eventually has control over their bodies and that they just need to get de-attached from worldly goods to do so. Just a theory.

 

[Life]

Wait.... what???????

I didn't even read the whole post. I was just responding to what I saw.

Anyways, now I'm seeing more and I think.... wow. I don't want to say for sure because I try to avoid making takfir... but I do think what you say constitutes kufr.

According to IslamQA:

Whoever does not believe that the kaafirs are kaafirs is himself a kaafir

Question
Is it true that anyone who does not accept that kuffaar are kuffaar is a kaafir himself, even if he prays, believes in the Qur'aan, and the Prophet Muhammad ( )? If so, what is the proof for this? Can a person insist on believing that Jews and Christians can be believers and go to heaven after being shown clear evidence against this, and still be considered a Muslim?


Answer

Praise be to Allaah.

Yes, this is correct. Whoever is not convinced that the person who disbelieves in the religion of Allaah is a kaafir, does not believe what Allaah has told us about their being kaafirs, and he does not believe that the religion of Islam abrogates all previous religions and that all people must follow this religion no matter what their religion was before.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers [Aal Imraan 3:85]

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/6688/whoever-does-not-believe-that-the-kaafirs-are-kaafirs-is-himself-a-kaafir

Before anyone accuses me of being a takfiri or anything like that... I'm not declaring anyone to be a kaffir. But..... I do think the post constitutes apostasy.

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be one of the losers [Aal Imraan 3:85]

I view Buddhism as a set of principles, a way of life and not as a whole religion (compared to Islam). So, technically you are not seeking another religion. And I don't see why it would be wrong? It should be okay as long as it doesn't contradict and goes against the fundamental teachings of Islam.

I personally don't agree with Buddha and have a reason to believe that his "way of life" is heavily tendentious. But I don't see what the problem would be if a Muslim wants to follow the non- contradicting teaching and tailor the Buddhism way of life to fit in a way that it doesn't go against the tenant of Islam.

And THIS doesn't make any sense: Whoever does not believe that the kaafirs are kaafirs is himself a kaafir,

Do you know what a Kafir is? The term, Kafir, was used in the early days of Islam to describe people who knew The Prophet and His message as well as they knew their own sons but concealed this fact because it did not suit their commercial and political interest.

So, kafir is a term that can be used only for the people who:
1. Are aware of the Prophet as well as they know their own sons.
2. Are aware of His message and are aware that it's true.
3. Purposefully conceal it.

What I believe about the nature of someone else belief shouldn't affect mine!!

 

[Yungmulababy23]

How can you compare your thoughts of right and wrong with the divine knowledge of Allah(swt)? Human judgement is limited in everyways, we don't truly understand anything outside of what's already been revealed to us, which still we require guidance. Allah's judgement is beyond our comprehension saaxiib, please don't be so arrogant as to presume you know better.

damn so much mental gymnastics, we know exactly how allah the egotistical maniac thinks just read the quran

 

[sigmund]

Do deep research in islam and I mean DEEP and not following your own desires and feelings. Answer me this question do you believe the universe came by chance and that the sun rising and setting to the clouds moving forming and water pouring down is controlled by itself? genuine question

 

[Yungmulababy23]

Do deep research in islam and I mean DEEP and not following your own desires and feelings. Answer me this question do you believe the universe came by chance and that the sun rising and setting to the clouds moving forming and water pouring down is controlled by itself? genuine question

Science already tells us how the universe became, and there is way more proof of the big bang than there is of allah existing. Stop trying to use mental gymnastics to justify your belief of islam

 

[sigmund]

Science already tells us how the universe became, and there is way more proof of the big bang than there is of allah existing. Stop trying to use mental gymnastics to justify your belief of islam

science tells us how the universe operate due to calculation which is good but if scientists are superior to god why can't they travel to neptune or outside their solar systems and tell us from there?and who said big bang is not connected to islam? it most likely happened however we all know it can't just have happened by complete random chance and BAM humans planets animals mountains galaxies all happen to randomly appear so you telling me our human body system is operating on its own comee on bro.... and you still haven't fully answered my question it seems like you skipped the part where I mentioned does the universe e.g clouds that pour down rain does so itself? because In your answer you said scientists does that make sense to you?

 

[Yungmulababy23]

science tells us how the universe operate due to calculation which is good but if scientists are superior to god why can't they travel to neptune or outside their solar systems and tell us from there?and who said big bang is not connected to islam? it most likely happened however we all know it can't just have happened by complete random chance and BAM humans planets animals mountains galaxies all happen to randomly appear so you telling me our human body system is operating on its own comee on bro.... and you still haven't fully answered my question it seems like you skipped the part where I mentioned does the universe e.g clouds that pour down rain does so itself? because In your answer you said scientists does that make sense to you?

I am not saying there is no god/creator.I am not an atheist, I do believe there is probably a god or higher being out there. But allah the one you believe is god isn't real, I can't believe that a murder will go to heaven cause he is a muslim, yet someone who never hurt anyone will go to hell cause they are not muslim

 

[TheChauvinist]

Masha-waaq, welcome my kafir sister.

 

[sigmund]

I am not saying there is no god/creator.I am not an atheist, I do believe there is probably a god or higher being out there. But allah the one you believe is god isn't real, I can't believe that a murder will go to heaven cause he is a muslim, yet someone who never hurt anyone will go to hell cause they are not muslim

you believe in God which is wise explain me this what is the purpose of this universe? why would a God create it without explaining how it came to being and introduce himself to the world. An example someone who created the finest artwork known to man would want people to know that this is his work woudnt God want people to know that he is the creator of the universe and let people know?