Mogadishu have their own Kaaba now...

Sol

?
This is complete bidah and isn't permissible. It's been discussed numerous times by fatwas of Fiqh Councils and institutions for issuing fatwas

In Fataawa al-Lajnah ad-Daa’imah (11/14), vol. 2, there is a question as follows:

There is a man who teaches the people the rituals of Hajj in a practical manner. He has made a wooden structure for them and painted it black to resemble the Ka‘bah. He also made models of Maqaam Ibraaheem, as-Safa and al-Marwah, Zamzam and the Jamaraat, and other locations having to do with the rituals of Hajj. What the training involves is that the people come, wearing their ihram, and they do the rituals, starting with ‘umrah until the end of Hajj. They raise their voices reciting the Talbiyah inside the mosque, in unison. This phenomenon has started to spread in all regions of Morocco, to the point that if you enter some of the mosques, you will find a wooden structure resembling the Ka‘bah and everything connected to the rituals, throughout the year.

The Standing Committee replied:

Making models out of wood or other materials for some of the Islamic rituals, such as the Ka‘bah, Maqaam Ibraaheem, the Jamaraat and so on, for the purpose of using them to teach people how to do the rituals of Hajj and ‘umrah in the manner described, is not permissible. In fact it is a reprehensible innovation, because of what it leads to of things that are contrary to Islamic teachings, such as feeling an emotional attachment to these models, even if that is after a while, and because they may be mishandled, and so on, when there is no need for this method. Explaining and describing the rituals verbally, and writing explanations is sufficient to convey the meaning to all people. It is narrated in a saheeh report that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever does an action that is not part of this matter of ours will have it rejected.” Narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh. End quote.

President of the committee ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abdullah ibn Baz; vice president ‘Abd al-‘Azeez Aal ash-Shaykh; members at large ‘Abdullah ibn Ghadyaan, Saalih al-Fawzaan and Bakr Abu Zayd.

It also says in vol. 2, answering a question about making medallions in the form of the Ka‘bah and the green dome:

It is not permissible to make models of the Holy Ka‘bah and the dome that is above the grave of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) or to trade in such items. That is because making them and trading in them and dealing in them leads to things that are not permissible; we should warn against that and block all doors that lead to it. End quote.
 
Nop their cant sweet talk me out of this one. I mean really that's the best excuse they got, If so why this haven't been implemented long time ago why now? is it because of the 24 September 2015 an event took place? hundreds, maybe thousands, of pilgrims were crushed to death, I can just imagine how much Saudi lost $$$$ on that day.

Populations grow by the year and more Muslims can afford to go to mecca. It is safer to train them in advance.

Saudis started imposing quota on pilgrimage. Back then people argued they we're abusing their oversight of Mecca. But it was accommodation issues.

I am inclined myself to accept charges of racism against the Saudi elites for blaming African pilgrims. But this is safety issue.
 
Populations grow by the year and more Muslims can afford to go to mecca. It is safer to train them in advance.

Saudis started imposing quota on pilgrimage. Back then people argued they we're abusing their oversight of Mecca. But it was accommodation issues.

I am inclined myself to accept charges of racism against the Saudi elites for blaming African pilgrims. But this is safety issue.
"O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Shaam. O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Yemen." The people said, "O Messenger of Allaah, and our Najd." I think the third time the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said, "There (in Najd) will occur earthquakes, trials and tribulations, and from there appears the Horn of Satan."

I think you know who their are.... You guest it right we have been worn by the Saudis governments or call them kings whatever. they is only one King and that is Allah
 
I don’t know if they build this to practice but my niece and she goes to an Islamic school where every year the children practice hajj and do labaka around the fake kababa. Also they wear white attire sometimes black attire for female students.
It's all pagan practice and lies. Muslims around the world needs to be very careful.
 
This is complete bidah and isn't permissible. It's been discussed numerous times by fatwas of Fiqh Councils and institutions for issuing fatwas

This is complete bidah and isn't permissible. It's been discussed numerous times by fatwas of Fiqh Councils and institutions for issuing fatwas

Answers to questions depend on how the question is formulated and asked. This model Kabah had been in use for years and Saudi Sheekhs knew about it. Malaysia won medals every year for sending best pilgrims to Mecca exactly using a seminar which includes practice around a model of the rock. It is part of their application process.

There is the fear of later Muslims who are less educated and of sufi tendencies starting to seek blessings from these models. The harsh response can be explained for that reason. But in general, there needs to be more discussion around the issue and not a simple answer to a simple question asked along certain take on the issue.

Screaming Bidah does not make something Bidah.
 
Since a lot of people die from Haj stampede, the Saudis (with the blessings of their sheikhs) asked these replicas to be built in Muslim countries and in particular in African countries who have been found their pilgrims to be behind the stampede and teach them proper pilgrimage procedures to lower the death and injury toll.

@embarassing

Reer Puntland want the Somali Ka3ba be rotated, give them next year.
Why are you lying lol? Where do you get the idea that Saudis asked Africans to do this?
 
Why are you lying lol? Where do you get the idea that Saudis asked Africans to do this?
@embarassing

They asked all Muslim countries to do including African countries including Somalia. They blamed the African pilgrims for the stampede that killed more than 700 pilgrims (see above post with the article).

Indonesia

Haj pilgrims practise not putting a foot wrong

Classes teach how to follow rituals and avoid getting crushed amid the throngs of the faithful.

Ka3ba Replica


Indonesian pilgrims practise before a replica of the Kaaba, Islam's holy shrine, at a training centre in Jakarta as part of their final preparations before departing for the Haj.

PONDOK GEDE, Indonesia // Even before arriving in Mecca for this year's Haj, 30-year-old Irawati, from Indonesia, has felt the emotion of beholding the Kaaba, the cubic structure in Islam's holiest city towards which all Muslims face to pray.

Just days before leaving for Mecca she finished a mock Haj, part of a three-month training that tens of thousands of Indonesians complete every year in readiness for an annual pilgrimage that draws some two million Muslims from across the globe.

Every year as the Haj draws near, hundreds of Little Meccas sprout across Indonesia, from lifelike setups complete with a replica of the Kaaba, to simple arrangements of chairs and tables at hotels or mosques outside the larger cities or towns.

"I feel like I'm in Mecca already," Ms Irawati said as she beheld the large Kaaba replica at her training site in east Jakarta, her voice breaking and eyes welling with tears.

"When I see the real thing I may just collapse and weep with joy," she added.

Pilgrims have been arriving in Mecca for weeks in anticipation of the rituals, which reached a climax yesterday on Mount Arafat, outside Mecca.

Dalmi, a 55-year-old schoolteacher, said she and her fellow villagers also broke down in tears when they first saw a Kaaba replica while training in West Java.

"We gasped in awe and then we all cried. Many of us have spent years saving up. We sold our jewellery, land, goats and cows, everything," said Ms Dalmi, who spent four years saving up US$3,500 (Dh12,855) for the trip and the cost of the course.

"When we saw the Kaaba, we saw our big dream being realised," she added.

At a compound half the size of a football field, Ms Irawati circled the mock Kaaba together with a dozen other would-be pilgrims, cries of "Subhanallah" (Glory to God) echoing in the air.

Other practice rites included the run between two hills, re-enacting the search for water in the desert by Hagar, wife of the Prophet Ibrahim, for her son Ishmael, and the stoning of the devil.

Like other would-be pilgrims on the government-mandated course, they also watched videos on the Haj rituals, learnt Saudi laws and culture and executed simple exercises to stay fit.

"When you're in Mecca, remember not to push and shove or you may get crushed by big-sized Arabs," warned the group leader, Sharifah Alawiyah, 59, evoking laughter.

"I'm serious. Many have died in stampedes there, so don't rush," she added.

The Haj has in the past been fraught with perils such as deadly stampedes and fires. Hundreds died in a stampede in 2006.

For pilgrims who are often illiterate or who have never gone beyond their own villages, getting separated from their groups in the crushing crowds is another common hazard.

For the world's largest Muslim-majority country and top sender of more than 200,000 pilgrims a year, the training is crucial in preventing chaos and casualties in the holy land, officials say.

At the pilgrimage itself, Indonesian Muslims have earned a reputation for being among the most organised and orderly.

They wear stainless steel bracelets engraved with their identity details as well as identical batik uniforms, and all carry the same travel bags with a large photograph of the owner.

"Because we are handling so many pilgrims, it's important to keep them organised and orderly," said Muhaimin Luthfie, an official at the Religious Ministry.

"Ninety per cent of them are farmers and fishermen who have never travelled overseas or been on a plane."

Pilgrims say the training has made them more confident about performing the Haj correctly and safely.

"I made a few mistakes at first. When people climbed the hill, I walked down. But after doing this several times, I am an expert. I'm actually a Haji already - a fake one," joked Yusuf, a 60-year-old farmer who like many Indonesians goes by a single name.

But trainers warned that despite their best efforts, nobody could guarantee a trouble-free Haj.

"When our pilgrims see people touching the Kaaba walls, they want to do the same," said Alawiyah, a trainer who has led more than 30 groups.

"The mood there makes everyone very excited. They forget everything we teach them here and then it all breaks loose."


https://www.thenational.ae/uae/haj-pilgrims-practise-not-putting-a-foot-wrong-1.436274
 
Young pilgrims in Malaysia practice for a journey to Mecca - in pictures

Children from the Little Caliphs kindergarten circumambulate a mock-up of the Kaaba during an educational simulation of Haj in Shah Alam outside Kuala Lumpur.



Thousands of Malaysian children took part in a practice run for the Muslim haj pilgrimage on July 24, walking round a model of the holy Kaaba shrine under the tropical sun. The haj is one of the five pillars of Islam, which capable Muslims must perform at least once, and marks the spiritual peak of their lives. All photos by Mohd Rasfan / AFP

https://www.thenational.ae/world/as...e-for-a-journey-to-mecca-in-pictures-1.614227
 
@embarassing

They asked all Muslim countries to do including African countries including Somalia. They blamed the African pilgrims for the stampede that killed more than 700 pilgrims (see above post with the article).

Indonesia

Haj pilgrims practise not putting a foot wrong

Classes teach how to follow rituals and avoid getting crushed amid the throngs of the faithful.

Ka3ba Replica


Indonesian pilgrims practise before a replica of the Kaaba, Islam's holy shrine, at a training centre in Jakarta as part of their final preparations before departing for the Haj.

PONDOK GEDE, Indonesia // Even before arriving in Mecca for this year's Haj, 30-year-old Irawati, from Indonesia, has felt the emotion of beholding the Kaaba, the cubic structure in Islam's holiest city towards which all Muslims face to pray.

Just days before leaving for Mecca she finished a mock Haj, part of a three-month training that tens of thousands of Indonesians complete every year in readiness for an annual pilgrimage that draws some two million Muslims from across the globe.

Every year as the Haj draws near, hundreds of Little Meccas sprout across Indonesia, from lifelike setups complete with a replica of the Kaaba, to simple arrangements of chairs and tables at hotels or mosques outside the larger cities or towns.

"I feel like I'm in Mecca already," Ms Irawati said as she beheld the large Kaaba replica at her training site in east Jakarta, her voice breaking and eyes welling with tears.

"When I see the real thing I may just collapse and weep with joy," she added.

Pilgrims have been arriving in Mecca for weeks in anticipation of the rituals, which reached a climax yesterday on Mount Arafat, outside Mecca.

Dalmi, a 55-year-old schoolteacher, said she and her fellow villagers also broke down in tears when they first saw a Kaaba replica while training in West Java.

"We gasped in awe and then we all cried. Many of us have spent years saving up. We sold our jewellery, land, goats and cows, everything," said Ms Dalmi, who spent four years saving up US$3,500 (Dh12,855) for the trip and the cost of the course.

"When we saw the Kaaba, we saw our big dream being realised," she added.

At a compound half the size of a football field, Ms Irawati circled the mock Kaaba together with a dozen other would-be pilgrims, cries of "Subhanallah" (Glory to God) echoing in the air.

Other practice rites included the run between two hills, re-enacting the search for water in the desert by Hagar, wife of the Prophet Ibrahim, for her son Ishmael, and the stoning of the devil.

Like other would-be pilgrims on the government-mandated course, they also watched videos on the Haj rituals, learnt Saudi laws and culture and executed simple exercises to stay fit.

"When you're in Mecca, remember not to push and shove or you may get crushed by big-sized Arabs," warned the group leader, Sharifah Alawiyah, 59, evoking laughter.

"I'm serious. Many have died in stampedes there, so don't rush," she added.

The Haj has in the past been fraught with perils such as deadly stampedes and fires. Hundreds died in a stampede in 2006.

For pilgrims who are often illiterate or who have never gone beyond their own villages, getting separated from their groups in the crushing crowds is another common hazard.

For the world's largest Muslim-majority country and top sender of more than 200,000 pilgrims a year, the training is crucial in preventing chaos and casualties in the holy land, officials say.

At the pilgrimage itself, Indonesian Muslims have earned a reputation for being among the most organised and orderly.

They wear stainless steel bracelets engraved with their identity details as well as identical batik uniforms, and all carry the same travel bags with a large photograph of the owner.

"Because we are handling so many pilgrims, it's important to keep them organised and orderly," said Muhaimin Luthfie, an official at the Religious Ministry.

"Ninety per cent of them are farmers and fishermen who have never travelled overseas or been on a plane."

Pilgrims say the training has made them more confident about performing the Haj correctly and safely.

"I made a few mistakes at first. When people climbed the hill, I walked down. But after doing this several times, I am an expert. I'm actually a Haji already - a fake one," joked Yusuf, a 60-year-old farmer who like many Indonesians goes by a single name.

But trainers warned that despite their best efforts, nobody could guarantee a trouble-free Haj.

"When our pilgrims see people touching the Kaaba walls, they want to do the same," said Alawiyah, a trainer who has led more than 30 groups.

"The mood there makes everyone very excited. They forget everything we teach them here and then it all breaks loose."


https://www.thenational.ae/uae/haj-pilgrims-practise-not-putting-a-foot-wrong-1.436274
You're legit pulling a bunch of random things together in order to try and degrade Somalis, doesn't seem healthy Aussie.

The article explains the reason for the training. Your rants about Africans, Saudis, Stampedes, are irrelevant here.

"Kasim Sheikh Mohamed Noor who was among the team that orgernised the demonstration, said they decided to orgernise for the event following massive ignorance on the side of the Hajj-goers as they would come back from Mecca while not having performed the important pillar of the religion as per required. Kassim noted that Hajj guides—persons charged with directing the hajj-goers in their visit to the holy cities of Mecca and Madina and along towns that occur between the cities—have complained about the issue, saying only familiarization session would solve the problem. He said the initiative is practiced in many Muslim nations across the world where Hajj-goers are trained on the process.

“After we noted the problems that they go through after spending lots of money on the journey, we have taken it upon ourselves to familairise them with the whole process and how to go about it,” he explained. “We are aware of many Somalis who got stranded in Jeddah while looking for guidance, or a relative they came in with since they are not familiar with the process,” he continued, adding that most of them feel out of place when they are faced with such a challenging situation without a prior knowledge and proper training."
 
You're legit pulling a bunch of random things together in order to try and degrade Somalis, doesn't seem healthy Aussie.

The article explains the reason for the training. Your rants about Africans, Saudis, Stampedes, are irrelevant here.

"Kasim Sheikh Mohamed Noor who was among the team that orgernised the demonstration, said they decided to orgernise for the event following massive ignorance on the side of the Hajj-goers as they would come back from Mecca while not having performed the important pillar of the religion as per required. Kassim noted that Hajj guides—persons charged with directing the hajj-goers in their visit to the holy cities of Mecca and Madina and along towns that occur between the cities—have complained about the issue, saying only familiarization session would solve the problem. He said the initiative is practiced in many Muslim nations across the world where Hajj-goers are trained on the process.

“After we noted the problems that they go through after spending lots of money on the journey, we have taken it upon ourselves to familairise them with the whole process and how to go about it,” he explained. “We are aware of many Somalis who got stranded in Jeddah while looking for guidance, or a relative they came in with since they are not familiar with the process,” he continued, adding that most of them feel out of place when they are faced with such a challenging situation without a prior knowledge and proper training."
@embarassing

This is the article of the Saudis blaming the Africans.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-700-country-s-cleric-says-human-control.html

I don't dispute the educational side, but the safety component is also a major component as you can see from the articles of the Malaysian and Indonesian mock Haj exercises. As you can see from the ignorance exhibited in this thread, it will be a hard-sell for some if you only insist on the safety side.
 
@embarassing

This is the article of the Saudis blaming the Africans.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-700-country-s-cleric-says-human-control.html

I don't dispute the educational side, but the safety component is also a major component as you can see from the articles of the Malaysian and Indonesian mock Haj exercises. As you can see from the ignorance exhibited in this thread, it will be a hard-sell for some if you only insist on the safety side.
You're trying to make it seem like its related when its not. :bell: Respect yourself. Bringing that up is totally unnecessary here.
 
You're trying to make it seem like its related when its not. :bell: Respect yourself. Bringing that up is totally unnecessary here.
@embarassing

Sxb, you are too sensitive here, the Malaysians and the Indonesians are exercising the safety aspect of it, why not in Mogadishu or in Lagos? how isn't it related? The Saudis want to minimise deaths and injuries and thereby have asked other Muslim countries to prepare and educate their pilgrims.
 

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