Lowland East Cushitic migration

[Apollo]

Mota cave is in the southwest of Ethiopia. Mota Man is most closely related to the Aari of the Omo valley, also in the southwest and not far from the putative Oromo heartland in the southeast. Lake Tana is in the northwest, where a route to the Jubba/Shabelle headwaters need not involve anything to the extreme south or west. I have already eliminated south Sudan, Kenya and the Omo, so I suspect you are splitting hairs. A migration from Lake Tana to the Shabelle/Jubba headwaters could have been made without picking up a lot of extraneous genetic material, including Mota.

Nope, it represents a more widespread population than just the Mota cave. They (highland Ethiopian hunter-gatherers) lived all over highland Ethiopia prior to the arrival of Afro-Asiatic groups. Similar to how Cheddar Man was not restricted to the Cheddar Gorge, but his group lived all over the UK at the time.

It is not splitting hairs. It is a very evident signal that Somalis never went through highland Ethiopia. It is rather important in reconstructing population movement.

 

[Grant]

Nope, it represents a more widespread population than just the Mota cave. They (highland Ethiopian hunter-gatherers) lived all over highland Ethiopia prior to the arrival of Afro-Asiatic groups. Similar to how Cheddar Man was not restricted to the Cheddar Gorge, but his group lived all over the UK at the time.

It is not splitting hairs. It is a very evident signal that Somalis never went through highland Ethiopia. It is rather important in reconstructing population movement.

I would appreciate a source for the generality of Mota man. Mota cave is near the Aari and they number fewer than half a million, even today. Are there other examples of Mota dna?

 

[Cuneo]

Just like @Apollo mentioned, Saho-Afar is considered a basal form of Lowland East Cushitic by linguists. This language cluster lacks any major divergence and the conservative nature gives us a clue to what Proto Lowland East Cushitic sounded like.

Beja is the most basal form of Cushitic and the closest living language to Proto Cushitic, Saho-Afar is not far behind.

Saho and Afar music (sounds like unintelligible north Somali)

 

[Grant]

Just like @Apollo mentioned, Saho-Afar is considered a basal form of Lowland East Cushitic by linguists. This language cluster lacks any major divergence and the conservative nature gives us a clue to what Proto Lowland East Cushitic sounded like.

Beja is the most basal form of Cushitic and the closest living language to Proto Cushitic, Saho-Afar is not far behind.

Saho and Afar music (sounds like unintelligible north Somali)

Interestingly, the Beja are only 52% E1b1b. They are 38 % J and they have no T. Compare to Somalis.

Beja people - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"According to Y-DNA analysis by Hassan et al. (2008), around 52% of Beja in Sudan carry the E1b1b haplogroup, with most belonging to the V32 subclade. The remaining Beja individuals bear the J clade (38%). Both paternal lineages are also common among local Afroasiatic-speaking populations. The next most frequent haplogroups carried by Beja are the European-associated R1b haplogroup (~5%) and the archaic African A3b2 clade (~5%).[10]

Maternally, Hassan (2009) observed that approximately 71% of their Beja samples carried various subclades of the Africa-centered macrohaplogroup L. Of these mtDNA lineages, the most frequently borne clade was L3 (35.6%), followed by the L2 (16.7%), L1 (8.3%), L0a (6.3%), L4 (2.1%) and L5 (2.1%) haplogroups. The remaining 29% of the Beja individuals belonged to sublineages of the Eurasian macrohaplogroups M (4.2% M1) and N (10.4% U6a1, 8.3% preHV1, 2.1% N/J1b, 2.1% R/T1, 2.1% R/U3).[11]"

 

[Pioneer]

Interestingly, the Beja are only 52% E1b1b. They are 38 % J and they have no T. Compare to Somalis.

Beja people - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"According to Y-DNA analysis by Hassan et al. (2008), around 52% of Beja in Sudan carry the E1b1b haplogroup, with most belonging to the V32 subclade. The remaining Beja individuals bear the J clade (38%). Both paternal lineages are also common among local Afroasiatic-speaking populations. The next most frequent haplogroups carried by Beja are the European-associated R1b haplogroup (~5%) and the archaic African A3b2 clade (~5%).[10]

Maternally, Hassan (2009) observed that approximately 71% of their Beja samples carried various subclades of the Africa-centered macrohaplogroup L. Of these mtDNA lineages, the most frequently borne clade was L3 (35.6%), followed by the L2 (16.7%), L1 (8.3%), L0a (6.3%), L4 (2.1%) and L5 (2.1%) haplogroups. The remaining 29% of the Beja individuals belonged to sublineages of the Eurasian macrohaplogroups M (4.2% M1) and N (10.4% U6a1, 8.3% preHV1, 2.1% N/J1b, 2.1% R/T1, 2.1% R/U3).[11]"

There is not enough Anfar genetic information online. Anyone post if you see one?

 

[Pioneer]

Beja are almost half Cushitic half Arabic, haplogroup E-V32 and J1.

 

[Apollo]

Beja are almost half Cushitic half Arabic, haplogroup E-V32 and J1.

Not really.

Paternal haplogroups do not directly translate into autosomal ancestry because of bottlenecks and selection. Otherwise the Dir would have been completely Semitic, which they are not, not even close.

There is not enough Anfar genetic information online. Anyone post if you see one?

Afars have been included in this study on Ethiopia:

The genetic landscape of Ethiopia: diversity, intermixing and the association with culture

The rich linguistic, ethnic and cultural diversity of Ethiopia provides an unprecedented opportunity to understand the level to which cultural factors correlate with -- and shape -- genetic structure in human populations. Using primarily novel genetic variation data covering 1,268 Ethiopians...

www.biorxiv.org

They are closest to the Agaws overall.

 

[Marquis]

Not really.

Paternal haplogroups do not directly translate into autosomal ancestry because of bottlenecks and selection. Otherwise the Dir would have been completely Semitic, which they are not, not even close.

True but with the Beja they had quite a lot of Semitic migration and intermixing, the territory they reside in makes them vulnerable to it. You have people like the Ababda who refuse to class themselves as Beja and see themselves as Arab.

 

[Pioneer]

@Apollo

Yeah bro, i know that Autosomal is very important for current ancestry and Paternal haplogroup
identity for ancient ancestry.

 

[Cuneo]

Interestingly, the Beja are only 52% E1b1b. They are 38 % J and they have no T. Compare to Somalis.

Beja people - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"According to Y-DNA analysis by Hassan et al. (2008), around 52% of Beja in Sudan carry the E1b1b haplogroup, with most belonging to the V32 subclade. The remaining Beja individuals bear the J clade (38%). Both paternal lineages are also common among local Afroasiatic-speaking populations. The next most frequent haplogroups carried by Beja are the European-associated R1b haplogroup (~5%) and the archaic African A3b2 clade (~5%).[10]

Maternally, Hassan (2009) observed that approximately 71% of their Beja samples carried various subclades of the Africa-centered macrohaplogroup L. Of these mtDNA lineages, the most frequently borne clade was L3 (35.6%), followed by the L2 (16.7%), L1 (8.3%), L0a (6.3%), L4 (2.1%) and L5 (2.1%) haplogroups. The remaining 29% of the Beja individuals belonged to sublineages of the Eurasian macrohaplogroups M (4.2% M1) and N (10.4% U6a1, 8.3% preHV1, 2.1% N/J1b, 2.1% R/T1, 2.1% R/U3).[11]"

Beja (south Egypt and Port Sudan area) and Saho carry HG-T, their subclades are registered on Yfull. They also carry subclades that are common among other Cushitic groups unlike the Dir/Isaaq who carry a unique lineage in this context.

 

[Grant]

Beja (south Egypt and Port Sudan area) and Saho carry HG-T, their subclades are registered on Yfull. They also carry subclades that are common among other Cushitic groups unlike the Dir/Isaaq who carry a unique lineage in this context.

How do you explain why the Dir/Isaaq and the Beja are so different?

 

[Cuneo]

How do you explain why the Dir/Isaaq and the Beja are so different?

Autosomally they’re not that different. Beja and Somalis have a genetic affinity dating back to the time our Lowland East Cushitic ancestors migrated from upper Egypt/lower Sudan through the Red Sea corridor (eastern Sudan and Eritrea).

Y16897 subclade of HG-T carried by Dir/Isaaq seems to have been introduced quite recently (around 1st or 2nd century BC). There are many theories about where it came from before reaching the Horn and the top prospects are:

1.South Arabia

2.Persian Gulf (By way of South Arabia)

3.Eastern Mediterranean (Levant) which is where the subclade originates (5000BC). This location would gain momentum if other Cushitic populations tested positive for Y16897. So far it’s just Dir/Isaaq with few carriers among other Somalis as well.

The closest paternal relatives of the Dir/Isaaq seem to be the Al-Ali subtribe of Bani Malik in Kuwait. Based on STR they share a recent ancestors within the last 2200 years.

 

[Nomadite]

Still unlikely, because of heavy Mota influence in those regions (Central Ethiopia). Also, Somalis are the only major ethnic group in the Horn totally lacking Mota's signature paternal lineage E-M329. It is not even found as a minor lineage (like how E-V16 is found in Somalis). All Oromos have some E-M329.



Because they likely spent a few thousand years there. Perhaps from 3,000 BCE all the way to 0 CE. This also explains why Somali-like languages are more diverse in the Southern direction. But then again, you got nomadism in the North which could have caused linguistic homogenization more rapidly.

Where is E from? I have heard it is either from MENA or ancient East Africa

 

[Grant]

Nope, it represents a more widespread population than just the Mota cave. They (highland Ethiopian hunter-gatherers) lived all over highland Ethiopia prior to the arrival of Afro-Asiatic groups. Similar to how Cheddar Man was not restricted to the Cheddar Gorge, but his group lived all over the UK at the time.

It is not splitting hairs. It is a very evident signal that Somalis never went through highland Ethiopia. It is rather important in reconstructing population movement.

Haplogroup E-M329 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The majority of the cases observed have been found in East Africa. It has been found in ancient DNA isolated from a 4,500 year old Ethiopian fossil called Mota.[5][6][1] This haplogroup is frequent in Southwestern Ethiopia, especially among Omotic-speaking populations.[3][4] Semino et al. (2004) found 2 Ethiopian Oromo in a study of >2400 individuals, including 78 Oromo.[7] Cadenas et al. (2007) found 1 case in Qatar, out of 72 people tested there in that study.[8] "

Only 2 out of 74 Oromo have M329, after a habitation so long they forgot any previous location. The Dawa/Genale watershed, the putative Oromo/proto Somali homeland, is not impacted. Ehret puts the proto Doy/proto Genale Somali groups there at 500 BC, with the proto Doy moving to the lower interriver area by 200 AD; becoming proto Maay/Maxay by the 5th century; and separating as distinct Maay and Maxay in the 8th century. (See his article in Ali Jimale Ahmed, The Invention of Somalia.)

Given the near 100% T1a among the Dir, and a much shorter Samaale sojourn in Ethioipia than the Oromo, it seems to me the Samaales could have avoided M-329 with simple endogamy.

 

[Apollo]

Where is E from? I have heard it is either from MENA or ancient East Africa

E is like 70,000 years old and not really relevant to post-neolithic (after 10K years before present YBP) population movements we are discussing here (the Cushitic period between 8,000-2,000 YBP).

Given the near 100% T1a among the Dir, and a much shorter Samaale sojourn in Ethioipia than the Oromo, it seems to me the Samaales could have avoided M-329 with simple endogamy.

Again wrong. There are still some minor low frequency lineages present in ''Samaale'' Somalis like E-V16/M281, E-V6, E-M123, E-V1515*/CTS10880* (the aforementioned are all variants of E-M35 or associated with it) and some J-M267 and A-M13. The above are all in line with a Northeastern/Red Sea route into Somalia and not with one through highland Ethiopia.

However, E-M329 (the Omotic/paleolithic Ethiopian paternal lineage) has never ever been found in a Somali, most certainly not in the Northeast of country where Oromo admixture is nonexistent. This on top of the complete lack of Omotic/Southwest Ethiopian autosomal affinities in Somalis, and the way outlier LE-C groups can be autosomally modeled relative to Somalis totally debunks this Southern Ethiopia hypothesis for LE-C. Lowland Eastern Cushitic originated in Eastern Ethiopia or possibly even Somalia, just as the name suggests.

Anyway, I am done on this theory. You are not convincing me one iota.

 

[Grant]

E is like 70,000 years old and not really relevant to post-neolithic (after 10K years before present YBP) population movements we are discussing here (the Cushitic period between 8,000-2,000 YBP).



Again wrong. There are still some minor low frequency lineages present in ''Samaale'' Somalis like E-V16/M281, E-V6, E-M123, E-V1515*/CTS10880* (the aforementioned are all variants of E-M35 or associated with it) and some J-M267 and A-M13. The above are all in line with a Northeastern/Red Sea route into Somalia and not with one through highland Ethiopia.

However, E-M329 (the Omotic/paleolithic Ethiopian paternal lineage) has never ever been found in a Somali, most certainly not in the Northeast of country where Oromo admixture is nonexistent. This on top of the complete lack of Omotic/Southwest Ethiopian autosomal affinities in Somalis, and the way outlier LE-C groups can be autosomally modeled relative to Somalis totally debunks this Southern Ethiopia hypothesis for LE-C. Lowland Eastern Cushitic originated in Eastern Ethiopia or possibly even Somalia, just as the name suggests.

Anyway, I am done on this theory. You are not convincing me one iota.

We are agreed V-32 originates in the northeast Sudan and develops in southern Somalia into the Maay and Maxaa speakers. The weakness in your theory is in making the connection between the two areas. You got hung up on M-329 when you should have kept your eye on V,-32.
The Oromo are close Samaale relatives. IMO the difference between them is that the Samaales left the Dawa basin in the 2nd century AD and the Oromo stayed in Ethiopia until the Expansion in the 16th-17th centuries. Both groups fled invaders and growing powers in the north by going up Nile tributaries to the south and east. Given the language and genetic similarities and the 1400 + year separation it is easy to see them at an earlier point as a single people and only one migration.
Eid mubarak!