Sixiroole10
Suldaanka Reer Bicidyahan
Did lowland east cushitic originate in southern Ethiopia?
Lowland East Cushitic migration
- Thread starter Sixiroole10
- Start date
Sixiroole10
Suldaanka Reer Bicidyahan
Thats what i believed too. That they split from us in Eritrea & that our proto south east cushitic ancestors then moved south to Ethiopia. Is there proof off this though?
Yes, they originated from the omo-tana area. Proto-Somali tribes But it's odd, Somalis don't seem to have much Omotic DNA compared to other lowland cushites the Oromos and the Afars.
Sixiroole10
Suldaanka Reer Bicidyahan
Most other east Cushitic speakers like the Yakku/Dullay & Burji live in that whole southern Ethiopia area in line with the view that the language group originated there, only Afar/Saho are the anomalies & ive seen some claim theyre recent migrants to Eritrea
2 other Somaloid groups, Rendille and Garre have live in the general vicinity of Southern Ethiopia/Northern Kenya forever
Sixiroole10
Suldaanka Reer Bicidyahan
Afar dont have much Omotic either which kinda helps the argument that theyre not from southern Ethiopia
Apollo
VIP
@Sixiroole10
No,
Lowland East Cushitic originated either in the current Afar or Somali territories and they subsequently replaced Omotics in Southwest Ethiopia. It did not originate in Southern Ethiopia. Otherwise Afars, Somalilanders, Puntlanders would score much more Omotic while they have practically zero of this.
The name is also a good clue: Lowland East Cushitic.
The Cushitic language family ultimately comes from the north (North Sudan, parts of upper Egypt and Eritrea).
No,
Lowland East Cushitic originated either in the current Afar or Somali territories and they subsequently replaced Omotics in Southwest Ethiopia. It did not originate in Southern Ethiopia. Otherwise Afars, Somalilanders, Puntlanders would score much more Omotic while they have practically zero of this.
The name is also a good clue: Lowland East Cushitic.
The Cushitic language family ultimately comes from the north (North Sudan, parts of upper Egypt and Eritrea).
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Sixiroole10
Suldaanka Reer Bicidyahan
Do you have any sources for this that i can read/would back this up against the south east Ethiopia theory. Plus how long have Afar/Saho been in Eritrea
Apollo
VIP
Plenty of genetic studies I have analyzed in the past.
Those groups like the Daasanach and El Molo are extremely far removed from Somalis genetically and have high levels (autosomally) of South Sudan type Nilotic & Southwest Ethiopian type of Omotic ancestry (those two components are practically absent in ethnic Somalis).
It is more parsimonious that LE Cushitic originated either in the Afar lands, Ogadenia, or Somalia and then moved into Southwest Ethiopia than vice versa.
In this thread I also hypothesized that Oromos came from Somalis than the other way around:
Oromos came from Somalis
Not the other way around. This stupid myth needs to die (that Somalis came from Oromos). Proto-Somalis conquered half of Ethiopia from South Somalia and turned into Oromos.
www.somalispot.com
Arabsiyawi
HA Activist.
Somalis in general don't either, so why'd you assume this for them and not for us ? I believe we all come from southern Ethiopia tbh
Sixiroole10
Suldaanka Reer Bicidyahan
Idk i figured that we originated somewhere in Ethiopia but not southern Ethiopia.
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Apollo
VIP
I believe ethnic Somalis and the proto-Somali language come from Southern Somalia.
It is way more likely than the Southern Ethiopia theory. I reject that hypothesis.
Consider this one more time:
Shebelle River - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
V32 joins E1b1b in the Beja/Kush area of eastern Sudan, but gets to southern Somalia. The Blue Nile begins/ends in Lake Tana, near the head of the Shabelle/Dawa/Genale/Jubba watershed. It makes good sense to me that the V32 proto-Somalis would have followed the Blue Nile and then found the rivers to take them into Somalia. Based on linguistic data, Christopher Ehret says the language that became Maxaa/Maay originated in the Dawa drainage tributary to the Jubba, eventually separating in the Afgoye area at the Shabelle bend.
This route avoids the Omo entirely, but ends up in the South.
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Apollo
VIP
Consider this one more time:
Shebelle River - Wikipedia
View attachment 118863
View attachment 118865
V32 joins E1b1b in the Beja/Kush area of eastern Sudan, but gets to southern Somalia. The Blue Nile begins/ends in Lake Tana, near the head of the Shabelle/Dawa/Genale/Jubba watershed. It makes good sense to me that the V32 proto-Somalis would have followed the Blue Nile and then found the rivers to take them into Somalia. Based on linguistic data, Christopher Ehret says the language that became Maxaa/Maay originated in the Dawa drainage tributary to the Jubba, eventually separating in the Afgoye area at the Shabelle bend.
This route avoids the Omo entirely, but ends up in the South.
I disregard this as Somalis (unadmixed, especially in the North) lack both Mota specific ancestry nor have Kenya LSA (Late Stone Age - Kenya specific hunter-gatherers). Furthermore, the Nilo-Saharan autosomal ancestry of Somalis is specific to an extinct type that lived in North Sudan (lacking in Central African). Somalis do not carry South Sudanese type of Nilo-Saharan autosomal ancestry (there is an observable difference - in South Sudan they have a Central African affinity).
Only the NE Sudan → Eritrea → Danakil → Ogadenia → Somalia route makes sense.
Mind you, Afar-Saho is linguistically more basal (higher up in divergence) in LE Cushitic than those Southwest Ethiopian LE-C speakers. Lastly, SW Ethiopian LE-C speakers can be genetically modeled as Somali + other groups (Omotic usually), while Somalis cannot be modeled as them + something else.
The Blue Nile diverges from the Nile at Khartoum, so there is no connection to south Sudan, the Omo or Kenya. We are talking about northeast Sudan to Lake Tana to the Jubba/Shabelle watersheds. The SW Ethiopian LE-C speakers can be part of an earlier migration that followed the White Nile rather than the Blue.
If V32 goes the Eritrea/Ogaden route, how can you say Somalis originate in the South?
Apollo
VIP
Still unlikely, because of heavy Mota influence in those regions (Central Ethiopia). Also, Somalis are the only major ethnic group in the Horn totally lacking Mota's signature paternal lineage E-M329. It is not even found as a minor lineage (like how E-V16 is found in Somalis). All Oromos have some E-M329.
Because they likely spent a few thousand years there. Perhaps from 3,000 BCE all the way to 0 CE. This also explains why Somali-like languages are more diverse in the Southern direction. But then again, you got nomadism in the North which could have caused linguistic homogenization more rapidly.
Mota cave is in the southwest of Ethiopia. Mota Man is most closely related to the Aari of the Omo valley, also in the southwest and not far from the putative Oromo heartland in the southeast. Lake Tana is in the northwest, where a route to the Jubba/Shabelle headwaters need not involve anything to the extreme south or west. I have already eliminated south Sudan, Kenya and the Omo, so I suspect you are splitting hairs. A migration from Lake Tana to the Shabelle/Jubba headwaters could have been made without picking up a lot of extraneous genetic material, including Mota.
