OPINION Let's talk Federalism by reading The Federalist Papers.

[BigBreak]

FBI Somalia, asides from the empty threat which will never materialise, do you even know what confederalism means? If you did then you can't be against SL independence

 

[BigBreak]

UNITED Arab Emirates still has a strong central government and so does Somaliland. We are not united we are pre UAE

We are in agreement, the UAE style strong federal government is the way forward for Somalia

 

[Jaale]

Farmaajo has not had a competent foreign policy. UAE is an enemy yet Qatar is a confirmed terrorist sponsor in Bosaaso. Kenya is an enemy yet Ethiopia is still reeking havoc on Southern Somalia.

I liked the neutral position in conflicts that don't involve us. You're right about Qatar they should be condemned. But Ethiopia is not doing as much violation as Kenya at the moment. They all need to leave and that requires Somalis to reconcile with each other. I support the gov because I don't see a better alternative it's a choice between bad and worse.

 

[Jaale]

Federalism is great step for Somalis.

Now Each village has access to education and health not like pre 1991.

The issue is some Somalis has mentality of Centralism like to have wealth of all country to be kept in one city Xamar. Other Somalis tired of one city system that affect their lifehood and stay forever waiting orders from Xamar and when it collapse no alternative, Example is 1991.

My solution is simple. Those like to be remain under Centralism system control by Xamar. Let them marge into one big federal state with the same chairs they have on both parliament.

Others Like PL iyo JL or SWS can act as solo states as they are now.

The issue remain is SL.

If Somalia wants SL to be part of it, We should take Confederation system between others and Somaliland.

Like that all be happy and focus will be in one Great nation. Like in Canada or UAE.

If SL refuse. Coming years Somalia will stand, Then there is no way back to SL to have demand on union. Then Abiy scenario will be implemented, when he finish up TPLF.

Some of the stuff you said I agree with. I don't agree with you on SL. Why would you want them like what happened to Tigray while everyone is left alone.

 

[The Inquisitive]

Unitary democratically centralized republic is the solution, every region gets some degree of autonomy to develop the region, that with an emphasis on economic equality would solve most of Somalia's problems, i believe.

 

[MT Foxtrot]

My thoughts on the laughable idea that "centralism has been disproven" from a previous thread:

The idea that the unitary state is invalid, in perpetuity, because it failed in one particular context is ludicrous. The issue with Barre's government is not that it was centralised, but that it was a military dictatorship with no adequate balance of power. There was no bill of rights, independent judiciary, journalists, or any viable paths to change the political leadership of the nation. Not to mention, the country was at war with Ethiopia starting from at least mid-1960s and continuing well into the late-1980s. This heightened paranoia and possibly help justify increasingly draconian and regressive measures by the leadership.

Additionally, reducing a complex socio-political event to a single variable is wrong and far too simplistic. It is good to learn from your mistakes, but detrimental to learn the wrong lessons. The truth for post-war Somalia should have been "dictatorships are bad" not "unitary governments will always lead to failure". If anyone really believes this, count the number of unitary states in the top 20 economies.

INB4: "W-we are never going back to centralism!"



OK saxhib. My goal is to correct the misunderstanding in this thread not to revive Barre.

 

[Council]

Capitalist authoritarianism in the form of a military dictatorship is the only way forward. Democracy is just a way to let old men siphon funds from the country and to do the bidding of foreign interests.

Federalism has had it chance for the past 10 years and its yet to bear any fruits.

 

[FBIsomalia]

FBI Somalia, asides from the empty threat which will never materialise, do you even know what confederalism means? If you did then you can't be against SL independence

Confederation in modern history bring broken nation into closer to Union. Each Nation has its own federal system.

Example United state of America & Swiss.

The distinction between confederation and federation—words synonymous in their origin—has been developed in the political terminology of the United States. Until 1789 the U.S. was a confederation; then the word federation, or federal republic, was introduced as implying closer union. This distinction was emphasized during the American Civil War when the seceding states formed a confederation (Confederate States of America) in opposition to the Federal Union. Confederation thus came to mean a union of sovereign states in which the stress is laid on the autonomy of each constituent body, while federation implies a union of states in which the stress is laid on the supremacy of the common government. The distinction is, however, by no means universally observed. The variant confederacy, derived through the Anglo-French confederacie and meaning generally a league or union, whether of states or individuals, was applied in America in the sense of confederation to the seceding Southern states. In its political sense confederacy has generally come to mean rather a temporary league of independent states for certain purposes.

THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION
The Federal Constitution (SR 101) is the constitution of the Swiss Confederation. It is the primary piece of legislation in the Swiss legal system, taking precedence over all the federal, cantonal and communal acts, ordinances and other enactments; these may not contradict the Constitution. In comparison with the constitutions of other democratic states, the Swiss Federal Constitution has one unique feature: it makes no provision for a constitutional objection to federal legislation, i.e. once legislation has been enacted by Parliament, it cannot be declared invalid by the Federal Supreme Court on the grounds that it is unconstitutional. The only exception that the Federal Supreme Court makes to this rule applies in conflicts between a federal act and international law.

Also unlike other constitutions (e.g. the US Constitution), the Federal Constitution is amended regularly. Swiss citizens can demand an amendment to the Constitution or the adoption of a new article by organising a popular initiative. A partial or complete revision of the Constitution must be approved by a majority of voters and a majority of cantons.

So before going on what model we want, first we have to see the current state of Somalia from SL to JL on how to bring all of those states under one banner.

 

[FBIsomalia]

Some of the stuff you said I agree with. I don't agree with you on SL. Why would you want them like what happened to Tigray while everyone is left alone.

If SL still stand as they are today without concede to common goal of united Somalia. History is clear evidence those entities will be gone. From USA Civil war to China hong kong.

 

[Jaale]

If SL still stand as they are today without concede to common goal of united Somalia. History is clear evidence those entities will be gone. From USA Civil war to China hong kong.

Would you like it if Puntland wanted to secede and we did what you're suggesting to do to Somaliland.

 

[Jaale]

Capitalist authoritarianism in the form of a military dictatorship is the only way forward. Democracy is just a way to let old men siphon funds from the country and to do the bidding of foreign interests.

Federalism has had it chance for the past 10 years and its yet to bear any fruits.

No need for such extremes. Military dictatorship and stepping on people's necks is not only unjust but never going to work. Our current state is the result of that.

We never had real federalism with a strong constitution with clear responsibilities.

 

[FBIsomalia]

Would you like it if Puntland wanted to secede and we did what you're suggesting to do to Somaliland.

PL was the only state rebuilt Somalia as we see it today. We went to south with Brain, Muscle and Money to Implement Somalia federal Government insideVilla Somalia.

If PL didn't stand for Nationhood of Somalia. Who will do it?

SL leave south in ashes since 1991.

South Somalia divided by Militants fighting on remain of old Somalia, without National view to implement Somalia government that works in institutions .

PS: let us stick on topic point regarding System that work for Somalia.

 

[Som]

The days of trusting everything with one guy is done.
if you don't want federalism, argue for something else other than centralism because we've been there already.

The point is that federalism in Somalia isn't working. It never worked. Federal systems require a strong central government. In the US California or Massachusetts know their boundaries and what they can and can't do , on the other hand in Somalia federal states do whatever they want because there are no limits and the central government is weak.

 

[FBIsomalia]

No need for such extremes. Military dictatorship and stepping on people's necks is not only unjust but never going to work. Our current state is the result of that.

We never had real federalism with a strong constitution with clear responsibilities.

That is why Somalia FGS & FMS fighting since 2004. Every elected government should put Somalia Federal Constitution as First priority. without SL approval we cant call it National Dastuur.

But until we reach to SL. First lets remain states agree on Dastuur and elect Federal supreme court to be Judge in-case any party violate Somalia Dastuur.

 

[Jaale]

PL was the only state rebuilt Somalia as we see it today. We went to south with Brain, Muscle and Money to Implement Somalia federal Government insideVilla Somalia.

If PL didn't stand for Nationhood of Somalia. Who will do it?

SL leave south in ashes since 1991.

South Somalia divided by Militants fighting on remain of old Somalia, without National view to implement Somalia government that works in institutions .

PS: let us stick on topic point regarding System that work for Somalia.

Ok let's stick to the topic. My view is universal that is the only way to remain fair. What you want for yourself you should want for your brother. My view is to put everything on the table for everyone to come together. What we need is a constitutional convention.

 

[FBIsomalia]

Ok let's stick to the topic. My view is universal that is the only way to remain fair. What you want for yourself you should want for your brother. My view is to put everything on the table for everyone to come together. What we need is a constitutional convention.

So let us finish Somalia Federal Dastuur .

 

[Jaale]

Its not about being unjust, all that matters for Somalia right now is security.

Currently in Somalia we have men who profit off its instability, they have no incentive to improve the country. They vie for support from gulf states and switch between them every 4 years, whilst fattening their pockets. As for somali federalism, its just clannism under the guise of autonomy/devolved power.

You cannot compare the founding fathers of the US, educated men from the British Empire to what we have currently in Somalia.

It is extreme, we already had civil war against such extreme dictatorship. Move forward to what we have now instead of breaking everything and going back to what got us in this mess.

 

[Jaale]

So let us finish Somalia Federal Dastuur .

I completely agree. We also have foreign forces and terrible security, what about that aspect.

 

[FBIsomalia]

I completely agree. We also have foreign forces and terrible security, what about that aspect.

Amisom will not leave South Somalia until elected President put pressure to build SNA force to free villages under Alkabab. Each year free gobol. In four years you free 4 gobols from Alkabab.

Security is part of Pollical dilemma in Somalia. Always FGS focus on federal states not Alkabab.

Free South than we can talk about other points.

 

[Jaale]

Amisom will not leave South Somalia until elected President put pressure to build SNA force to free villages under Alkabab. Each year free gobol. In four years you free 4 gobols from Alkabab.

Security is part of Pollical dilemma in Somalia. Always FGS focus on federal states not Alkabab.

Free South than we can talk about other points.

When federal states are being aggressive and acting like independent countries how can the government do anything. The states themselves are not secure, they need to take part of the responsibility and work with the government.