Let's talk Federalism by reading The Federalist Papers.

Part 1 by talks about the importance of Union.

FEDERALIST NO. 1
General Introduction
For the Independent Journal.
Author: Alexander Hamilton

To the People of the State of New York:

AFTER an unequivocal experience of the inefficiency of the subsisting federal government, you are called upon to deliberate on a new Constitution for the United States of America. The subject speaks its own importance; comprehending in its consequences nothing less than the existence of the UNION, the safety and welfare of the parts of which it is composed, the fate of an empire in many respects the most interesting in the world. It has been frequently remarked that it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection and choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force. If there be any truth in the remark, the crisis at which we are arrived may with propriety be regarded as the era in which that decision is to be made; and a wrong election of the part we shall act may, in this view, deserve to be considered as the general misfortune of mankind.

This idea will add the inducements of philanthropy to those of patriotism, to heighten the solicitude which all considerate and good men must feel for the event. Happy will it be if our choice should be directed by a judicious estimate of our true interests, unperplexed and unbiased by considerations not connected with the public good. But this is a thing more ardently to be wished than seriously to be expected. The plan offered to our deliberations affects too many particular interests, innovates upon too many local institutions, not to involve in its discussion a variety of objects foreign to its merits, and of views, passions and prejudices little favorable to the discovery of truth.

Among the most formidable of the obstacles which the new Constitution will have to encounter may readily be distinguished the obvious interest of a certain class of men in every State to resist all changes which may hazard a diminution of the power, emolument, and consequence of the offices they hold under the State establishments; and the perverted ambition of another class of men, who will either hope to aggrandize themselves by the confusions of their country, or will flatter themselves with fairer prospects of elevation from the subdivision of the empire into several partial confederacies than from its union under one government.

It is not, however, my design to dwell upon observations of this nature. I am well aware that it would be disingenuous to resolve indiscriminately the opposition of any set of men (merely because their situations might subject them to suspicion) into interested or ambitious views. Candor will oblige us to admit that even such men may be actuated by upright intentions; and it cannot be doubted that much of the opposition which has made its appearance, or may hereafter make its appearance, will spring from sources, blameless at least, if not respectable--the honest errors of minds led astray by preconceived jealousies and fears. So numerous indeed and so powerful are the causes which serve to give a false bias to the judgment, that we, upon many occasions, see wise and good men on the wrong as well as on the right side of questions of the first magnitude to society. This circumstance, if duly attended to, would furnish a lesson of moderation to those who are ever so much persuaded of their being in the right in any controversy. And a further reason for caution, in this respect, might be drawn from the reflection that we are not always sure that those who advocate the truth are influenced by purer principles than their antagonists. Ambition, avarice, personal animosity, party opposition, and many other motives not more laudable than these, are apt to operate as well upon those who support as those who oppose the right side of a question. Were there not even these inducements to moderation, nothing could be more ill-judged than that intolerant spirit which has, at all times, characterized political parties. For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either can rarely be cured by persecution.

And yet, however just these sentiments will be allowed to be, we have already sufficient indications that it will happen in this as in all former cases of great national discussion. A torrent of angry and malignant passions will be let loose. To judge from the conduct of the opposite parties, we shall be led to conclude that they will mutually hope to evince the justness of their opinions, and to increase the number of their converts by the loudness of their declamations and the bitterness of their invectives. An enlightened zeal for the energy and efficiency of government will be stigmatized as the offspring of a temper fond of despotic power and hostile to the principles of liberty. An over-scrupulous jealousy of danger to the rights of the people, which is more commonly the fault of the head than of the heart, will be represented as mere pretense and artifice, the stale bait for popularity at the expense of the public good. It will be forgotten, on the one hand, that jealousy is the usual concomitant of love, and that the noble enthusiasm of liberty is apt to be infected with a spirit of narrow and illiberal distrust. On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.
 
In the course of the preceding observations, I have had an eye, my fellow-citizens, to putting you upon your guard against all attempts, from whatever quarter, to influence your decision in a matter of the utmost moment to your welfare, by any impressions other than those which may result from the evidence of truth. You will, no doubt, at the same time, have collected from the general scope of them, that they proceed from a source not unfriendly to the new Constitution. Yes, my countrymen, I own to you that, after having given it an attentive consideration, I am clearly of opinion it is your interest to adopt it. I am convinced that this is the safest course for your liberty, your dignity, and your happiness. I affect not reserves which I do not feel. I will not amuse you with an appearance of deliberation when I have decided. I frankly acknowledge to you my convictions, and I will freely lay before you the reasons on which they are founded. The consciousness of good intentions disdains ambiguity. I shall not, however, multiply professions on this head. My motives must remain in the depository of my own breast. My arguments will be open to all, and may be judged of by all. They shall at least be offered in a spirit which will not disgrace the cause of truth.

I propose, in a series of papers, to discuss the following interesting particulars:

THE UTILITY OF THE UNION TO YOUR POLITICAL PROSPERITY THE INSUFFICIENCY OF THE PRESENT CONFEDERATION TO PRESERVE THAT UNION THE NECESSITY OF A GOVERNMENT AT LEAST EQUALLY ENERGETIC WITH THE ONE PROPOSED, TO THE ATTAINMENT OF THIS OBJECT THE CONFORMITY OF THE PROPOSED CONSTITUTION TO THE TRUE PRINCIPLES OF REPUBLICAN GOVERNMENT ITS ANALOGY TO YOUR OWN STATE CONSTITUTION and lastly, THE ADDITIONAL SECURITY WHICH ITS ADOPTION WILL AFFORD TO THE PRESERVATION OF THAT SPECIES OF GOVERNMENT, TO LIBERTY, AND TO PROPERTY.

In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.
It may perhaps be thought superfluous to offer arguments to prove the utility of the UNION, a point, no doubt, deeply engraved on the hearts of the great body of the people in every State, and one, which it may be imagined, has no adversaries. But the fact is, that we already hear it whispered in the private circles of those who oppose the new Constitution, that the thirteen States are of too great extent for any general system, and that we must of necessity resort to separate confederacies of distinct portions of the whole.1 This doctrine will, in all probability, be gradually propagated, till it has votaries enough to countenance an open avowal of it. For nothing can be more evident, to those who are able to take an enlarged view of the subject, than the alternative of an adoption of the new Constitution or a dismemberment of the Union. It will therefore be of use to begin by examining the advantages of that Union, the certain evils, and the probable dangers, to which every State will be exposed from its dissolution. This shall accordingly constitute the subject of my next address.
PUBLIUS.
  1. The same idea, tracing the arguments to their consequences, is held out in several of the late publications against the new Constitution. Back to text



I have highlighted the bits I think are the most important and interesting.

That concludes part 1. Next time we shall discuss Part 2- Concerning Dangers from Foreign Force and Influence.

 
Confederation for somalia, central gov limited to foreign affairs, defense and immigration. Other then that, we all stay in our lanes and only send the yearly Ramadan/Eid greetings to each other.

Asc
What you're describing is Federalism and I would be happy with that if people left each other alone and were unified in foreign policy.
 
The days of trusting everything with one guy is done.
if you don't want federalism, argue for something else other than centralism because we've been there already.
 
The days of trusting everything with one guy is done.
if you don't want federalism, argue for something else other than centralism because we've been there already.
I do want Federalism, what we have is not Federalism. It is a disfunctional mess. I want real Federalism like the US.

That's why I posted this. Please read it. It is Alexander Hamilton making a case to the 13 colonies to ratify the constitution and become a Federal Republic which they eventually did and became the United States.
 
Most somalis don't know what federalism is, even the FMS and FGS don't know what federalism is. So why are we even trying this:mindblown:
 

repo

Bantu Liberation Movement
VIP
That's American Federalism. But we will create our own federalism, to solve our own problems.
 
I do want Federalism, what we have is not Federalism. It is a disfunctional mess. I want real Federalism like the US.

That's why I posted this. Please read it. It is Alexander Hamilton making a case to the 13 colonies to ratify the constitution and become a Federal Republic which they eventually did and became the United States.
In case you haven't noticed, it's never been the system that's issue in Somalia, it's the people in charge. Somali leaders are simply too incompetent, and most don't even understand what each system of governance entails.
For example, we turned federalism in to qabiil statess.
we turned dictator barre's regime into qabiil state.
we turned the ICU(sharia law) into qabiil system.

Farmaajo has hijacked the army, the courts, the parliament etc.., and in a true federal system, all should NOT come under him, they should be there as a checks and balances to him. That's who you support, so why do you have issues with anyone?

so it won't matter what we choose as our system, you can bet that it'll eventually be turned into a qabiil version of itself.
 
While federalism still means a strong central government, it would be wrong to impose a strong central government on Somalians if a large segment of the citizens are against this

UAE style federalism for my neighbour Somalia, I agree with Michael Rubin
 
In case you haven't noticed, it's never been the system that's issue in Somalia, it's the people in charge. Somali leaders are simply too incompetent, and most don't even understand what each system of governance entails.
For example, we turned federalism in to qabiil statess.
we turned dictator barre's regime into qabiil state.
we turned the ICU(sharia law) into qabiil system.

Farmaajo has hijacked the army, the courts, the parliament etc.., and in a true federal system, all should NOT come under him, they should be there as a checks and balances to him. That's who you support, so why do you have issues with anyone?

so it won't matter what we choose as our system, you can bet that it'll eventually be turned into a qabiil version of itself.
I and many others across Somalia support the admin because it is the most competent so far especially in foreign policy which comes under the purview of the feds. If I was qabiliste I would be against him like my ina adeer who despises him.

The thing is Farmaajo will be gone tomorrow or in four years. He doesn't matter, what matters is strong institutions. We all have to support it and support each other. I want the same strong institutions in Jubaland. Otherwise we're all doomed, we'll be undermining and trying to destroy each other forever.
 
I and many others across Somalia support the admin because it is the most competent so far especially in foreign policy which comes under the purview of the feds. If I was qabiliste I would be against him like my ina adeer who despises him.

The thing is Farmaajo will be gone tomorrow or in four years. He doesn't matter, what matters is strong institutions. We all have to support it and support each other. I want the same strong institutions in Jubaland. Otherwise we're all doomed, we'll be undermining and trying to destroy each other forever.
You can't want a strong institutions for JL and support that guy who is sanctioning the poor people there, not madoobe, but the people. Also he didn't sanction Gedo, just lower Juba, so there goes your "i am no qabiilste"

The only thing worse than qabiilists people are the qabiilists people who are too afraid to say it like it is.
 
While federalism still means a strong central government, it would be wrong to impose a strong central government on Somalians if a large segment of the citizens are against this

UAE style federalism for my neighbour Somalia, I agree with Michael Rubin
UNITED Arab Emirates still has a strong central government and so does Somaliland. We are not united we are pre UAE
 
You can't want a strong institutions for JL and support that guy who is sanctioning the poor people there, not madoobe, but the people. Also he didn't sanction Gedo, just lower Juba, so there goes your "i am no qabiilste"

The only thing worse than qabiilists people are the qabiilists people who are too afraid to say it like it is.
I honestly I'm not, the only reason I support it is because of Kenyan meddling, they have too much power there. I don't know about the sanctions you mentioned, can you provide evidence.
I do support strong instructions like I do for SL and PL I would rather they secede than become a mess like the South.
 
I and many others across Somalia support the admin because it is the most competent so far especially in foreign policy which comes under the purview of the feds. If I was qabiliste I would be against him like my ina adeer who despises him.

The thing is Farmaajo will be gone tomorrow or in four years. He doesn't matter, what matters is strong institutions. We all have to support it and support each other. I want the same strong institutions in Jubaland. Otherwise we're all doomed, we'll be undermining and trying to destroy each other forever.

Farmaajo has not had a competent foreign policy. UAE is an enemy yet Qatar is a confirmed terrorist sponsor in Bosaaso. Kenya is an enemy yet Ethiopia is still reeking havoc on Southern Somalia.
 
Farmaajo has not had a competent foreign policy. UAE is an enemy yet Qatar is a confirmed terrorist sponsor in Bosaaso. Kenya is an enemy yet Ethiopia is still reeking havoc on Southern Somalia.
Just like all the ones before him, maybe it's time to let Ethiopia and Kenya annex this failure:wow:
 

FBIsomalia

True Puntlander
VIP
What you're describing is Federalism and I would be happy with that if people left each other alone and were unified in foreign policy.
Federalism is great step for Somalis.

Now Each village has access to education and health not like pre 1991.

The issue is some Somalis has mentality of Centralism like to have wealth of all country to be kept in one city Xamar. Other Somalis tired of one city system that affect their lifehood and stay forever waiting orders from Xamar and when it collapse no alternative, Example is 1991.

My solution is simple. Those like to be remain under Centralism system control by Xamar. Let them marge into one big federal state with the same chairs they have on both parliament.

Others Like PL iyo JL or SWS can act as solo states as they are now.

The issue remain is SL.

If Somalia wants SL to be part of it, We should take Confederation system between others and Somaliland.

Like that all be happy and focus will be in one Great nation. Like in Canada or UAE.

If SL refuse. Coming years Somalia will stand, Then there is no way back to SL to have demand on union. Then Abiy scenario will be implemented, when he finish up TPLF.
 

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