Jubaland and Its Inhabitants by F.Elliot

[Sultan]

Warya, spare us your anecdotal evidence and suugu science. Attacking people under a dummy account is very weak, so reveal your main account coward.

That is first hand information from the Sultan.Do you want scholarly quotes from Wikipedia

 

[anonimo]

The Boran ,Garre,Ajuuran were chased out of Gedo by the Marehan .Now ,they're found in NFD .REE XASAN and TALXE are boon marexan???That's gross lie .By the way,what do you know about Marehan .Don't change this peaceful discussion into trolling bulshit

It is Ogaden clan who completely destroyed the Orma.

.
An account of Ogaden Domination in Jubaland and Nfd

"As a result of this manifest weakening of the Wardei they were attacked on
all fronts and it is no surprise that they could not defend themselves but had to flee for their lives. According Turnbull, 'the main contlict was in the east; and the actions fought at Afmadu, on the Deshek Wama, and at EI Lein are still- spoken of by the tribe

Ogaden were at this point led by the grand old man of the Abd Wak, Abdi Ibrahim , the Sultan, while there were a number of ' invasion commanders under him: Abdi Ibrahim was noted for his bravery and skill in war strategy which eventually led to the Ogaden dominance in the Jubaland. His remarkable leadership qualities are still remembered to this day by the Ogaden. Notable among his commanders were Magan Yussuf, the Sultan of the Mohamed Zubeer Ogaden, and Hassan Bejan of the Abdalla/Ogaden

Having displaced the Wardei from the Juba region the Ogaden were not
content to settle
down but continued their southward expansion since the loot from the Wardei was an appetizing reason to continue their raids.

The Ogaden migration towards the Tana in the 1 860s and 1870s, was one of struggle to wrestle control of the land from the Wardei .The Ogaden were firmly estahlished along the banks of the Tana River by the 1870' s, having virtually conquered and suhordinated the Galla to
Somali domination. According to Turnbull the attack lof 1865 by the Somali when the Wardei were weakened by plague was so unexpected and so violent that the Wardei were utterly broken by it.
Scattered through the fighting was, hundreds were killed; those who survived either fled to neighhouring tribes or became serfs to the Mohamed Zuheir, the Telemuggeh, or the Magabul. Many were sold as slaves in the markets of Lamu, and Zanzibar.

Had it not been for the arrival of Imperial British East African Company rule in 1885, the Wardei would have ceased to exist as a community with a separate cultural and political identity."


How Cawlyahan and Marehan pushed Garre and Degodiya into Nfd"

"Over .the years, the Adjurans were subjected to constant raids by hoth the Degodia and the Ogadene especially the wars waged by the Rer Afgab Auliyahan and the Marehan, forced the Degodia to migrate to the Garreh country in
the vicinity of Mandera of what was to become the Kenya Colony"

http://www.worldcat.org/title/darod...ern-frontier-district-of-kenya/oclc/419832916

Did I say the Talxe and the Reer Xassan are Boon Marehan? You think I do not know my Shit? Hawarsame and Habar Yaqub are the Boon Marehan. The others ain't. Don't get emotional on me now.

You run around with that one article that does not tell the full story. Nigga, the Galla had already been weakened by the regular jihads waged by the Bardheere Jamaa and smallpox. Once the Galla were weakened, the Ogaden threw of the Sheegaad yoke and proceeded to attack. Secondly, it was not only Ogaden that attacked the Wardei but so did their other rivals such as the Boran and their Garre, Ajuran allies. The most damage was undoubtedly inflicted on the Wardei by the Ogadens that lived in their midst.

Page 23: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/11984624.pdf

Page 128: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...CZFAKHapLAeQQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=128&f=false

 

[anonimo]

You, Sir, are on something today. But please don't pass it.

The Gosha are a compound group who speak Maay. The Mushunguli are WaZigua who have maintained a Tanzanian language and social organization.
You just want to conflate all the Bantu and Madow. This is a Samaale thing that is not shared with the academic community. Gosha is the forest, but the people of the forest divide into Gosha and Mushunguli. The Mushunguli are absolutely NOT Gosha. They are NOT interchangeable.

(Besteman 1999, 122) According to Catherine Besteman:

While upholding the perception of Somalis as distinct from and superior to the European construct of ‘black Africans’, both British and Italian colonial administrators placed the Jubba valley population in the latter category. Colonial discourse described the Jubba valley as occupied by a distinct group of inferior races, collectively identified as the WaGosha by the British and the WaGoscia by the Italians

https://spectrajournal.org/SPECTRA/article/view/373/236

 

[Grant]

The Madow are of two types :.

1.Mahaawaay :-they associate themselves with the Somali.They exclusively speak AF Somali or the Maay dialect

2.Mushunguli :- These comprises former slaves from Mozambique, Tanzania and Congo .they include, Miyao,Wazigua among others .They speak both Somali and their native languages

The Gosha abandoned their native languages very early on. Only the Mushunguli retained theirs. Which, along with their organization, is what makes them distinct from the Gosha.


Note also that the Gabaweyn, Shidle, Makaane and Shabelli are Madow but never spoke Bantu languages.

 

[Grant]

https://spectrajournal.org/SPECTRA/article/view/373/236

How convenient for the Italians. They were referring to all the people of the forest. Do you really suppose they were including the Boni, or understood the variations among the groups? They were just lumping all the Negroids.

 

[anonimo]

How convenient for the Italians. They were referring to all the people of the forest. Do you really suppose they were including the Boni, or understood the variations among the groups? They were just lumping all the Negroids.

Yep, that its the origin of the term Gosha. All Negroids in the Juba Valley. Enough of the semantics mate, have a Good Day.

 

[Sultan]

Did I say the Talxe and the Reer Xassan are Boon Marehan? You think I do not know my Shit? Hawarsame and Habar Yaqub are the Boon Marehan. The others ain't. Don't get emotional on me now.

You're on point here

You run around with that one article that does not tell the full story. Nigga, the Galla had already been weakened by the regular jihads waged by the Bardheere Jamaa and smallpox. Once the Galla were weakened, the Ogaden threw of the Sheegaad yoke and proceeded to attack. Secondly, it was not only Ogaden that attacked the Wardei but so did their other rivals such as the Boran and their Garre, Ajuran allies. The most damage was undoubtedly inflicted on the Wardei by the Ogadens that lived in their midst.

Page 23: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/11984624.pdf

Page 128: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...CZFAKHapLAeQQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=128&f=false

The Boran and the Orma were both called Galla.There was a kinda game of thrones in the region .First of all, It is Marehan and Cawlyahan that pushed and raided the Degodiya and Garre ,Consequently the Degodiya pushed the Ajuuran who further pushed the Boran .Currently l think you know the settlement pattern of those clans .Marehan are in Gedo ,Degodiya in Wajir east and wajir north and further west is settled by the Ajuuran in Wajir west and beyond the Ajuuran are Boran territories.

The Orma used to settle lower jubba and Garissa district .They were completely destroyed by the Ogaden .Currently ,the few saved by the British are found in Tana River County which situates on the other side of River Tana .In short,The Orma(wardei) didn't and currently don't border the Garre,Degodiya .

By the way,your links are informative

 

[Grant]

Yep, that its the origin of the term Gosha. All Negroids in the Juba Valley. Enough of the semantics mate, have a Good Day.

Semantics didn't stop when the British quit writing about their colony. The Gabaweyn, Gosha and Mushunguli have separate origins. Try sending some random Gosha back to Tanzania.....

The Mushunguli were adults, and the earliest to escape. They were more independent and often rejected more assimilated escapees.

Your link:

"In the 1840’s, the first fugitive slaves began settling in the lower Jubba Valley. The first settlers were the Zegua from Tanzania who escaped after a few years of enslavement and occupied the largely uninhabited area as refuge. The nomadic Somalis tended to avoid the densely forested area, describing it as Gosha, or “unhealthy forest” because of its infestation of tsetse flies, which endangered the pastoralists’ livestock. However, to the Zegua, the fertile land bordering the river was a site for reclaiming identity, autonomy, and self-sufficiency through agricultural sustainability. (Besteman 1999, 60-1) They began clearing land, establishing small-scale farms, fortifying their villages to protect themselves from invasion, and “creating village based forms of authority, mediation, and negotiation.” (Besteman 1999,109) The Zegua were joined by 20,000 other fugitive or manumitted slaves who likewise sought refuge and established their own villages and farmlands from 1865-1895. Collectively, they forged an “independent Goshaland” bound by a common East African ethnic identity but otherwise distinct in terms of cultural practices, language, and internal governance (Menkhaus 1989:127 in Besteman 64, 65).

The Mushunguli transformed the Jubba Valley into a site of productivity that successfully accommodated multiple social identities. However, this independent Goshaland would undergo significant changes with settlement trends occurring after 1895. The influx of former slaves arriving in the lower and middle Jubba Valley after 1895 were distanced from their cultures of origin. Because they had been stolen into slavery as children, memory of the languages, rituals, and cultural practices of their homeland had diminished. Out of necessity for survival, the new arrivals were “Somalized.” They had forged stronger affiliation with the Somali clans in which they were raised and many practiced Islam, albeit a more liberal form that retained elements of the animist and indigenous beliefs held prior to their capture into slavery. They spoke a Cushitic dialect, Maay Maay, which eventually replaced the Swahili and Bantu languages spoken across the villages of independent Goshaland."

 

[anonimo]

You're on point here




The Boran and the Orma were both called Galla.There was a kinda game of thrones in the region .First of all, It is Marehan and Cawlyahan that pushed and raided the Degodiya and Garre ,Consequently the Degodiya pushed the Ajuuran who further pushed the Boran .Currently l think you know the settlement pattern of those clans .Marehan are in Gedo ,Degodiya in Wajir east and wajir north and further west is settled by the Ajuuran in Wajir west and beyond the Ajuuran are Boran territories.

The Orma used to settle lower jubba and Garissa district .They were completely destroyed by the Ogaden .Currently ,the few saved by the British are found in Tana River County which situates on the other side of River Tana .In short,The Orma(wardei) didn't and currently don't border the Garre,Degodiya .

By the way,your links are informative

At first, the OG, Boran, Garre and Ajuran all went HAM on the sickly Wardei with the OG doing the most damage. Then the Garre, Ajuran, Degoodi switched sides and allied with the OG to attack the Boran. The Galti Mareexaan joined in on the frenzy too. Being the Somalis that they are, they turned on each other when there was no longer a Galla threat.

The Reer Xassan actually lived as far as Negelle until the early 90's went the Boran went HAM on them, History ain't it funny!

 

[anonimo]

Semantics didn't stop when the British quit writing about their colony. The Gabaweyn, Gosha and Mushunguli have separate origins. Try sending some random Gosha back to Tanzania.....

You got the wrong person Grant, lower your sword. Bantu Final Solution debates are not my cup of tea. That being said, it will be better for the ones that remember where they came from to be repatriated to their homeland just like the way some freed slaves were resettled in Liberia.

 

[Sultan]

The Gosha abandoned their native languages very early on. Only the Mushunguli retained theirs. Which, along with their organization, is what makes them distinct from the Gosha.


Note also that the Gabaweyn, Shidle, Makaane and Shabelli are Madow but never spoke Bantu languages.

The Gabaweyn,Shiidle,Ree Baarre are called Mahaawaay or Ree Shabeelle.They speak ONLY Somali.

The Mushunguli are newcomers and they are bilingual .

In another post you said The Gosha are around 1M which is simply UNTRUE

 

[Grant]

You got the wrong person Grant, lower your sword. Bantu Final Solution debates are not my cup of tea. That being said, it will be better for the ones that remember where they came from to be repatriated to their homeland just like the way some freed slaves were resettled in Liberia.

The chief weapon of the Final Solution group is the argument that all Madow are the same. I will believe you only if you start making the distinctions.

Liberia was floated for the same reasons Tanzania was. No Blacks in my back yard. How well would you say that worked out?

 

[Grant]

The Gabaweyn,Shiidle,Ree Baarre are called Mahaawaay or Ree Shabeelle.They speak ONLY Somali.

The Mushunguli are newcomers and they are bilingual .

In another post you said The Gosha are around 1M which is simply UNTRUE

https://vergecampus.com/2017/04/an-oppressed-group-youve-probably-never-heard-of-somalia/

"Approximately 10,800,000 people make up the population of Somalia today, most of whom are Islamic and speak Somali, Arabic, Italian, and/or English2. Despite there being few reliable population statistics for Somali minority groups due to chaos in the country, estimates indicate that they compose 1/3 of the total Somalia population; approximately 3,600,000 people3. Somalia’s largest minority and major at risk community is the Bantu groups, collectively known as (Wa) Gosha, which means literally, ‘people of the forest’1. Gosha are the principal non-Somali minority group in the country. The population of Somali Bantu is estimated to be more than 1,000,000 people4. Bantu communities primarily reside in the Lower Juba and Shabelle valleys of southern Somalia, where most live in the vicinity of either the Shabelle or Juba rivers5. Gosha rely on the water source from these rivers for drinking, bathing, fishing, and agriculture."

I am thinking there is some conflation going on, but the number of Gosha is given at over a million (When the total Somali population was 10.8 M.)- probably a Samaale definition, adding Madowweyn and the Lower Shabelli..

 

[Sultan]

https://vergecampus.com/2017/04/an-oppressed-group-youve-probably-never-heard-of-somalia/

"Approximately 10,800,000 people make up the population of Somalia today, most of whom are Islamic and speak Somali, Arabic, Italian, and/or English2. Despite there being few reliable population statistics for Somali minority groups due to chaos in the country, estimates indicate that they compose 1/3 of the total Somalia population; approximately 3,600,000 people3. Somalia’s largest minority and major at risk community is the Bantu groups, collectively known as (Wa) Gosha, which means literally, ‘people of the forest’1. Gosha are the principal non-Somali minority group in the country. The population of Somali Bantu is estimated to be more than 1,000,000 people4. Bantu communities primarily reside in the Lower Juba and Shabelle valleys of southern Somalia, where most live in the vicinity of either the Shabelle or Juba rivers5. Gosha rely on the water source from these rivers for drinking, bathing, fishing, and agriculture."

I am thinking there is some conflation going on, but the number of Gosha is given at over a million (When the total Somali population was 10.8 M.)- probably a Samaale definition, adding Madowweyn and the Lower Shabelli..

The total estimate of Jubaland population is around 1.3 M
1.Gedo 508K (Overwhelming Marehan)
2.Middle Jubba 360K(Overwhelming Absame and Raxaweyn)
3.Lower Jubba 490K (Half of the Population are from Kismayo which Somali or Darood City and the rest are from other districts )

The Dadaab refugee inhabitants are overwhelmingly Daarod from Jubaland.l believe the Madow in Jubaland are around 150K .

 

[Grant]

The total estimate of Jubaland population is around 1.3 M
1.Gedo 508K (Overwhelming Marehan)
2.Middle Jubba 360K(Overwhelming Absame and Raxaweyn)
3.Lower Jubba 490K (Half of the Population are from Kismayo which Somali or Darood City and the rest are from other districts )

The Dadaab refugee inhabitants are overwhelmingly Daarod from Jubaland.l believe the Madow in Jubaland are around 150K .

https://vergecampus.com/2017/04/an-oppressed-group-youve-probably-never-heard-of-somalia/

"In 1991 a refugee camp called Dadaab was set up on the Kenyan-Somali border to house families fleeing conflict in Somalia. For years, Kenya has threatened to shut down the Dadaab refugee camp, which is home to approximately 330,000 residents including a significant proportion of the Bantu minority."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantus_(Somalia)

"All in all, the number of Bantu inhabitants in Somalia before the civil war is thought to have been about 80,000 (1970 estimate), with most concentrated between the Juba and Shabelle rivers in the south.[5] However, recent estimates place the figure as high as 900,000 persons.[1"

You think the Negroids are being ignored much?

 

[Sultan]

https://vergecampus.com/2017/04/an-oppressed-group-youve-probably-never-heard-of-somalia/

"In 1991 a refugee camp called Dadaab was set up on the Kenyan-Somali border to house families fleeing conflict in Somalia. For years, Kenya has threatened to shut down the Dadaab refugee camp, which is home to approximately 330,000 residents including a significant proportion of the Bantu minority."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantus_(Somalia)

"All in all, the number of Bantu inhabitants in Somalia before the civil war is thought to have been about 80,000 (1970 estimate), with most concentrated between the Juba and Shabelle rivers in the south.[5] However, recent estimates place the figure as high as 900,000 persons.[1"

You think the Negroids are being ignored much?

Dadaab refugee is overwhelmingly Daarod then Raxaweyn and lastly Hawiya .The Somali Bantus were resettled en masse in the US in the early 2000s and currently there are very few of them in Dadaab.


I can see ,the much maligned Wikipedia estimated the Bantus in Somalia around 900,000 but don't forget the fact that Benadir,SW,Hirshabelle and Jubaland all have significant Bantu population .Still my 150k Bantu pop. estimation in Jubaland is credible

 

[Grant]

Dadaab refugee is overwhelmingly Daarod then Raxaweyn and lastly Hawiya .The Somali Bantus were resettled en masse in the US in the early 2000s and currently there are very few of them in Dadaab.


I can see ,the much maligned Wikipedia estimated the Bantus in Somalia around 900,000 but don't forget the fact that Benadir,SW,Hirshabelle and Jubaland all have significant Bantu population .Still my 150k Bantu pop. estimation in Jubaland is credible

https://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia

Origin- "Bantu - Bantu communities in East and Central Africa
15% of the total 7000,000 Somali Population.

In the riverine areas across the Juba and Shabelle rivers: Jilib, Jamame, Buale, Sakow, Merka, Qoryoley, Afgoye, Jowhar, Balad, Buloburte, Beletweyne, Somali ( both Maay and Mahatiri); Mushunguli),

Islam and small percentage of Christian (about 300 people) mainly from the Mushunguli communities in Kakuma regugee camp
Some Bantu subclans in the Lower shabelle region identify themselves with Digil and Mirifle in the Lower Shabelle region Small scale farming and labor."

The UN estimates are based at 15% of the Somali total population.

12,316,895.00
x .15 = 1,847,534.35.

Many of the Bantu at Dadaab were moved to Kakuma and the US. It is unclear how many of the Bantu are Shegato among major clans. Note that the Mennonite Misssion was in Jamaame, which probably explains the Christian Mushunguli.

 

[Sultan]

https://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia

Origin- "Bantu - Bantu communities in East and Central Africa
15% of the total 7000,000 Somali Population.

In the riverine areas across the Juba and Shabelle rivers: Jilib, Jamame, Buale, Sakow, Merka, Qoryoley, Afgoye, Jowhar, Balad, Buloburte, Beletweyne, Somali ( both Maay and Mahatiri); Mushunguli),

Islam and small percentage of Christian (about 300 people) mainly from the Mushunguli communities in Kakuma regugee camp
Some Bantu subclans in the Lower shabelle region identify themselves with Digil and Mirifle in the Lower Shabelle region Small scale farming and labor."

The UN estimates are based at 15% of the Somali total population.

12,316,895.00
x .15 = 1,847,534.35.

Many of the Bantu at Dadaab were moved to Kakuma and the US. It is unclear how many of the Bantu are Shegato among major clans. Note that the Mennonite Misssion was in Jamaame, which probably explains the Christian Mushunguli.

They are minority in all those towns. Hopefully they will have some influence in south Somalia when Democratic elections are held but not NOW.

The will have rough time when Jubaland army advances into the middle Jubba .The Somalis don't despise farming anymore

 

[ManlikeYJ]

@Sultan sxb why are dhulos closer to ogs than their harti relatives?

 

[Ferrari]

"At 7 p.m., while the askaris, or African soldiers, were settling down to evening meals, the Aulihan burst upon the British post. The Somalis set the surprised soldiers' huts on fire, and killed many of them as they fled the flames. By one account, 'Abdurrahman Mursaal himself is said to have shot Elliot beneath the ear with a revolver, and by another, to have donned Elliot's sun helmet after the raid. Dozens of Elliot's men were killed in the attack, while the survivors escaped across the Juba River to the nearby Italian post at Baardheere.The Somalis captured the company's maxim gun along with large quantities of arms and ammunition. 24 For the next 18 months, 'Abdurrahman Mursaal's northern Aulihan, strengthened by the acquisition of British weapons, held free reign over much of Jubaland and threatened British rule in the NFD as well. Indeed, a British officer with service in the region would later describe the Ogaden, of whom the Aulihan were a part, as "one of the most formidable fighting tribes in Africa" because of their mobility with their ponies, remarkable endurance, and the skill with which they wielded their spears."

@Grant don't be giving my land to bantus. I know yall cadaans love to f*ck shit up, but ain't u got something better to do than to spend your retirement on here trying to give my land away like your forefathers did in colonial days?