Islamic-relief.org.uk. ''Mogadishu was founded by settlers in the 8th century''

[Barkhadle1520]

Bruh check the first image, it says 720 CE.

Oh that one, My bad

Bro believe im not lying but wallahi Ive seen in a book that this was a misread. Everything Ive read on Xamar I never save because its pointless, southern history is just too blurry and there are no native texts about the history like for the north

As for the source that all these europeans are quoting its in De Barros Decades de Asia, sub title is "a chronicle of the kings of this city"

Basically the portuguese captured Kilwa in the early 16th century, and copied a book that they had found there, the book was a variant of Kitab al Sulwa and contained the whole story about Fakr al Din and the Al Ahsa tribe and the arabs etc etc, but this same story can also be found in Kitab Al Zunuj, and this is the only documentation of the founding of the city we have around the 800-900ADs, I tried disproving this but the only thing you can counter this with is chittick saying that he found no traces of the city prior to the 12th century

I only vaguely remember all this because I tried disproving these stories myself one day, Im too lazy to start researching all these manuscripts and books just to argue with the other idiots in this thread, waste of energy but if you really want to disprove the arab origins of mogadishu this is what you need to read :

De Barros Decades de Asia (1552)
Kitab al Sulwa
Kitab Al Zunuj

And theres chances that this story is present in more swahili manuscripts cause swahilis have over 30 000 manuscripts on their history, compared to banadir which has none, one of them even says the arabs of pate conquered mogadishu and many other things

If you manage to find a way to disprove the fakhr al din story and the rest, which I could not do, then you basically debunked the foreign origins

Wsc Im not gonna waste my time on this any longer, this isnt my taarikh

 

[JamalFarah]

This wouldve been a good argument but the story says that they just left after somalis took over

Never in collective history has a group of people simply up and left, especially considering there was nowhere to flee and no real reason for harm to be done. Mogadishu has changed hands between differing Somali clans and all of them are still around and present. Somalis rarely annihilate and mostly beat you to your knees and tax and marry you. The Bantus didn’t leave Somalia, and plenty of .5 clans have lived in relative peace for centuries. Either they would have been genetically assimilated or subjected to genocide. Besides, if these fictitious Arabs had done something so heinous that it led to their genocide by Somalis, there is absolutely no way it wouldn’t have been remembered, retold, and embedded as an ethnic memory.

 

[Zak12]

can also be found in Kitab Al Zunuj,

This is a fabricated text.

In any case, I'm going to have to defer to @Shimbiris and @Idilinaa in regards to De Barros Decades de Asia (1552) and Kitab al Sulwa since I'm not as well versed as them when it comes to koonfur history and the Portuguese.

chittick saying that he found no traces of the city prior to the 12th century

Yeah this is false too since Mogadishu was references to it even earlier than that but I can't find the sources at the moment.

compared to banadir which has none

Benadir does have some manuscripts IIRC but what should be emphasized here are local traditions and oral stories. Remember how Swahilis claimed for a long time that Persians and Arabs founded their towns and DNA proved them right?

 

[Zak12]

@Barkhadle1520 What's funny is that I was arguing with a cadcad guy several days ago on another website about Benadir's history and he claimed cadcads, Arabs and Bantus founded every major town in koonfur, it was a long argument yet he never brought up the stuff you said

 

[Barkhadle1520]

This is a fabricated text.

Thats not how history works you cant just say its fabricated and move on

Yeah this is false too since Mogadishu was references to it even earlier than that but I can't find the sources at the moment.

No the earliest mention is Al Idrisi in the 12th century so this fits

 

[Barkhadle1520]

@Barkhadle1520 What's funny is that I was arguing with a cadcad guy several days ago on another website about Benadir's history and he claimed cadcads, Arabs and Bantus founded every major town in koonfur, it was a long argument yet he never brought up the stuff you said

I know because cadcads are retards at best they will try to use aydrus which is even worse than anything they could say, the only smart cadcad I seen quoted al qazwini (i think im not sure or dont remember who it was exactly) who says the city is inhabited by arabs, but turns out he was quoting from someone else and he misread a word similar to arab

But honestly if they were smart they would stop using aydrus bs and start using sources like these, i dont think they even care about claiming the city they just want to be seen as laandheere and gain more rights, thats how it works in somali society

 

[Zak12]

Thats not how history works you cant just say its fabricated and move on

Its literally from the 19th century and has no corroborating archeological, written or oral evidence backing it up.

No the earliest mention is Al Idrisi in the 12th century so this fits

I think its very possible that Xamar existed since the 700s but it didn't become a large town until the 1100s.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Its literally from the 19th century and has no corroborating archeological, written or oral evidence backing it up.

View attachment 367332


I think its very possible that Xamar existed since the 700s but it didn't become a large town until the 1100s.

Lol I found that source and gave it to the guy he posted it a year or two ago on tiktok

This source is good if you wanna cope but lets be real this is vague and doesnt disprove anything, for example he says the story is not mentioned by any other texts when it is, but if you dont wanna go in depth like most people then sure use this

This is a real debunk, he goes through the manuscript and points out the mistakes

 

[Zak12]

he says the story is not mentioned by any other texts when it is

You talking about the De Barros Decades de Asia (1552) and Kitab al Sulwa? Well historians themselves say the Zunuj isn't connected to those but I'll wait and see what the others will have to say about it.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

You talking about the De Barros Decades de Asia (1552) and Kitab al Sulwa? Well historians themselves say the Zunuj isn't connected to those but I'll wait and see what the others will have to say about it.

The Fakhr ad din story is present in multiple texts, that im sure of, but the story has small variations from one book to another

 

[Zak12]

The Fakhr ad din story is present in multiple texts, that im sure of, but it the story has small variations from one book to another

Multiple texts huh? How interesting since I never came across one when researching the city's history and all those fools who claim Xamar isn't Somali never bring it up either.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Multiple texts huh? How interesting since I never came across one when researching the city's history and all those fools who claim Xamar isn't Somali never bring it up either.

I just told you its because theyre idiots, but I gave you the books now you're free to read them if you want and have a try at disproving this

Theres thousands of swahili manuscripts that arent digitized, if they were serious about claiming xamar they would definitely look into this

 

[amiirad]

https://www.islamic-relief.org.uk/somalia-a-forgotten-past/

​

Black History Month​

This month we have put together a series of blogs, that will focus on and celebrate, the rich Islamic history and culture of some of the countries Islamic Relief works in.

In this blog, we will explore the history and culture of Somalia, Islamic Relief has been working in Somalia since 1996.

Somalia​

Country Background:
Independence: 1st July 1960
Population: 15 million (2018)
Religion: Sunni, Islam
Official Languages: Somali, Arabic

Islamic History​

Modern-day Somalia was among the first places on the continent to embrace Islam. The earliest mention of Islam in the country came shortly after the first Hijra (migration) in the port city of Zeila, Somaliland. The city hosts Masjid al-Qiblatayn which is the oldest mosque in Somalia, the third oldest in Africa.

Masjid al-Qiblatayn literally means ‘the mosque with two qiblas’ and is one of only a few mosques in the world that feature two mihrabs: one oriented to the north toward Mecca, and the other faced to the northwest toward Jerusalem. The Ka’bah in the holy city of Mecca is now used by millions of Muslims around the world as the qibla. This was ordained by God in several verses of the Qu’ran revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) in the second Hijri year. Prior to this revelation, the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) and his followers in Medina faced Jerusalem for prayers.




Aside from Zeila, many ancient mosques can also be found in southern Somalia most notably Mogadishu the capital of modern-day Somalia. Mogadishu was founded by Arab settlers in the 8th century, Ibn Battuta, the famous scholar, and traveler described the city as an Islamic center and an active commercial port on the Banadir coast. The famous 14th-century scholar Ibn Khaldun also noted in his book that Mogadishu was a massive metropolis and claimed the city was very populous with many wealthy merchants.

Notable Islamic Figures​

Yusuf bin Ahmad al-Kawneyn

One of the most notable figures in the region is Yusuf bin Ahmad al-Kawneyn, popularly known as Shaykh Abu Barakat al Barbari (‘Blessed Father of Somalia’). He was a 12th Century Islamic Scholar and traveller who was born in the port city of Zeila. After completing his studies in Iraq, he returned to the region establishing learning centres in Harar Ethiopia, and various cities in southern Somalia all of which were part of the Shafi’i school of thought.

He is known for spreading the Islamic faith, to the Maldives islands, Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia, after traveling there from Zeila, and was called ‘Al Barakat Al Barbari’ (‘Blessed Father of Somalia’) by the residents of these countries.

Sa’id min Mogadishu

Sa’id min Mogadishu was a 14th-century scholar and traveler. Aside from his scholastic work, Sa’id traveled the world, including visiting Bengal and China. He also went to India, where he stayed in a mosque and met Ibn Battuta.

According to some scholars when Sa’id and Ibn Battuta met in India they had a long conversation in which Sa’id told Battuta about his travels in China, detailed the Yuan Dynasty’s political landscape and succession. It is also widely believed that Sa’id was the first Ambassador from the African continent in China representing the Sultanate of Mogadishu. He is also considered to be the first African to study Mandarin and to translate works from the language to Arabic. He is also accredited with making Somali coastal towns the leaders in trade between Africa and Asia.

Economy​

Somalia has the highest population of camels in the world around 6.2 million camels, the majority of the people in this region are nomadic and rely heavily on camels and livestock. The livestock sector is the largest contributor to Somali livelihoods. With over 65% of the population engaged in some way in the livestock industry, it still remains the most vital sector in the country. In 2015, the Horn of Africa nation exported a record 5.3 million animals, the highest such figure in two decades, according to the Food and Agriculture (FAO) organisation.

Despite this, the region now suffers from prolonged droughts and intense flooding as a result of climate change. The ongoing civil war and conflict in the region has also resulted in many losing their livelihoods. However, this wasn’t always the case, in fact, just hundred years ago modern-day Ethiopia, Somalia, and Sudan had such large numbers of livestock that they regularly sent charity to the Arabian Peninsula during times of difficulty.

Culture​

The country is not entirely homogeneous, 85% of the population is ethnic Somali with the remaining 15% consisting of Arab and Bantu populations, despite this, Somali is the dominant language. Until very recently the majority of the country were nomads or agropastoralists. For centuries nomads have relied on meat, maize, and camel milk, the cuisine – therefore, has always been very simple. The Arab and Bantu ethnic groups almost exclusively live in coastal/urban or settled farming areas.

The Indian Ocean trading networks makes the urban/ coastal cuisine is very different, with influences from Southern Arabia, Persia, and the Sub-Continent. European colonialism in the latter part of the 19th-century meant that Italian cuisine has also left its mark with pasta now considered somewhat of a staple in Southern Somalia.

The country is sometimes referred to as the nation of poets as poetry plays a significant role in society. Somali poetry includes both a rich folklore heritage such as work songs (hees-hawleed) sung to accompany everyday tasks like watering camels and a classical form of poetry (maanso) composed by poets.



Incense also plays a vital role in Somali culture and serves various purposes, frankincense is not just known for its inebriating smell, but also for its deep healing properties. Dissolved in water, it is widely used as a malaria repellent and as a cure for indigestion, nausea, hypertension as well as a post-partum medicine. Somalia is the world’s biggest producer of frankincense, it’s woodsy and sweetly aromatic, is one of the oldest commercial commodities, spanning more than 5,000 years. Today, thousands of tons of it are traded every year to be used by Catholic priests as incense in thuribles, and by makers of perfumes, natural medicines, and essential oils that can be inhaled or applied to the skin for their purported health benefits.

Frankincense is found in from resin in the Boswellia sacra tree which is native to North Africa, Oman, Somalia, and Yemen but is also found in parts of India. Fine resin is produced in Somalia, from which the Roman Catholic Church has been purchasing most of its stock for centuries.

This is giving AI text but I don’t ever support humanitarian organisations who say they are helping Somalia or other other countries. A good book to read on this is Road to Hell by Michael Maren.

 

[Zak12]

Theres thousands of swahili manuscripts that arent digitized,

Imma be honest, most of them probably aren't worth anything like how Timbuktu's manuscripts are mostly random crap.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Imma be honest, most of them probably aren't worth anything like how Timbuktu's manuscripts are mostly random crap.

Timbuktu is single pages of religious texts

When I said 30 000 pages I was referring to the manuscripts of the history of the kings of pate, mombasa and kilwa, so its 30 000 pages worth of history, probably a few more thousands when you add religious texts

 

[Zak12]

Timbuktu is single pages of religious texts

When I said 30 000 pages I was referring to the manuscripts of the history of the kings of pate, mombasa and kilwa, so its 30 000 pages worth of history, probably a few more thousands when you add religious texts

View attachment 367338

Well of course they will have manuscripts of their own history but I'm more interested in what they have to say about Benadir (if they do at all).

Btw are you actually entertaining the idea of Xamar being founded by non-Somalis or are you just playing devil's advocate to ensure our arguments are strong?

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Well of course they will have manuscripts of their own history but I'm more interested in what they have to say about Benadir (if they do at all).

Btw are you actually entertaining the idea of Xamar being founded by non-Somalis or are you just playing devil's advocate to ensure our arguments are strong?

dude I literally told you I tried to disprove it for a while

 

[Zak12]

dude I literally told you I tried to disprove it for a while

Our power levels aren't strong enough when it comes to this topic so all I can do is wait for others to have their takes

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Our power levels aren't strong enough when it comes to this topic so all I can do is wait for others to have their takes

Southern history overall is confusing and blurry due to it not being mentioned in details by foreign sources like maqrizi did for north, and local historical manuscripts like futuh al habesha for example missing, so I rather not talk about this at all anymore

 

[Abdixakim]

Yes. Persians came, built the large urban city in 60 years, gave the keys to Somalis, packed up, and jumped ship. Right after, Ibn Battuta came to a buzzing rich metropolis even for his world-traveling standards. But wait.. no Persians in sight and Somalis in control, fully integrated, established, and part and parcel of it all.

That's what we call a legit story, bro.

People read stuff without processing anything. They would say, "See, a Persian came flying on a magic carpet at that date and established the city. It's here on texts," without questioning how that does not fit into reality.

The Swahili claim is not even worth responding to. No one has time to play silly semantical word games like a child wasting grown people's time. Even Egypt-obsessed Blacks have countless coincidences they can match and build a narrative around. You can't entertain everything. The opponent has to show some level of intelligibility where there is a common ground of respect for inference and basic sense to accept a better explanation. To start, one should initially gauge the level of loaded presuppositions. If the person is sincere and just uninformed, then sure. It's a waste to engage ideologically driven people. You're not engaging ideas but their insistence on forcing something no matter how desperate and low.

Why are people obsessed with attributing Somali history to foreign non-Somali elements and the origin of any geographic and structural capacity? It's interesting. If those cities were not significant, no one would have cared at all. But now you have random social-media users that find some silly obscure text that make incoherent claims that are factually irrational with the backdrop of everything we know and can prove but still hold that little text above anything else. I find it amazing how it all relies on the ignorance of European and other biased writers that obscured info with their impartial drives, making a silly exception that overrides everything. This is Hotep level.

But do you know what is at the heart of it? It is the belief that Somalis are some backward people that could never build or maintain anything that requires organizational capacity. Those people are so sure of that, that it drives their motivation. If they try hard enough, they will uncover it. That is at the back of their heads. So they stoop so low in the most undignifying confirmation bias quest. It is so apparent. Let me tell you a fact, if they believed us to be capable, we would have another conversation, or better yet, not a conversation at all. And that goes for Somalis too. We see those individuals that constantly give the same type of foreign attribution. It comes from self-hatred and low ethnic esteem. That simple.

So ask me again, why should ajnabi and their Somali lapdog deserve our effort wasted on lowlife objectives? I don't need to defend or prove anything when everything worth discussing is substantiated. Notice how modern academics don't take these positions anymore. They stopped because they recognized the fraudulent track record of their disciplinary predecessors, too embarrassed to address the apparent garbage they threw around (strangely hands-off this age, aren't they?). The only area where the bullshit persisted was the history north of that and into Ethiopia. But that is now getting put right.

The only thing we need to do is, write our pieces for us on rigorous and respectable grounds, and that is it, create an informative milieu for our collective value orientation. Anything else has to bend to that, and there is no other conversation.