Steamdevolopment
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Are you Christian my love?
Islamic morality is trash and this is why
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Are you Christian my love?
Molotoff
VIP
Steamdevolopment
VIP
I have no reason to believe in God and therefore not sin either, which is again a arbitrary system created by the men who invented Allah.
Why did you use a phrase from the bible?
TekNiKo
Loyal To The One True Caliph (Hafidahullah)
1. I do call to witness the Resurrection Day;
2. And I do call to witness the self-reproaching spirit: (Eschew Evil).
3. Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones?
4. Nay, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers.
5. But man wishes to do wrong (even) in the time in front of him.
6. He questions: "When is the Day of Resurrection?"
7. At length, when the sight is dazed,
8. And the moon is buried in darkness.
9. And the sun and moon are joined together,-
10. That Day will Man say: "Where is the refuge?"
11. By no means! No place of safety!
12. Before thy Lord (alone), that Day will be the place of rest.
13. That Day will Man be told (all) that he put forward, and all that he put back.
14. Nay, man will be evidence against himself,
15. Even though he were to put up his excuses.
16. Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur'an) to make haste therewith.
17. It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:
18. But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated):
19. Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear):
20. Nay, (ye men!) but ye love the fleeting life,
21. And leave alone the Hereafter.
22. Some faces, that Day, will beam (in brightness and beauty);-
23. Looking towards their Lord;
24. And some faces, that Day, will be sad and dismal,
25. In the thought that some back-breaking calamity was about to be inflicted on them;
26. Yea, when (the soul) reaches to the collar-bone (in its exit),
27. And there will be a cry, "Who is a magician (to restore him)?"
28. And he will conclude that it was (the Time) of Parting;
29. And one leg will be joined with another:
30. That Day the Drive will be (all) to thy Lord!
31. So he gave nothing in charity, nor did he pray!-
32. But on the contrary, he rejected Truth and turned away!
33. Then did he stalk to his family in full conceit!
34. Woe to thee, (O men!), yea, woe!
35. Again, Woe to thee, (O men!), yea, woe!
36. Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)?
37. Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)?
38. Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did ((Allah)) make and fashion (him) in due proportion.
39. And of him He made two sexes, male and female.
40. Has not He, (the same), the power to give life to the dead?
2. And I do call to witness the self-reproaching spirit: (Eschew Evil).
3. Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones?
4. Nay, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers.
5. But man wishes to do wrong (even) in the time in front of him.
6. He questions: "When is the Day of Resurrection?"
7. At length, when the sight is dazed,
8. And the moon is buried in darkness.
9. And the sun and moon are joined together,-
10. That Day will Man say: "Where is the refuge?"
11. By no means! No place of safety!
12. Before thy Lord (alone), that Day will be the place of rest.
13. That Day will Man be told (all) that he put forward, and all that he put back.
14. Nay, man will be evidence against himself,
15. Even though he were to put up his excuses.
16. Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur'an) to make haste therewith.
17. It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:
18. But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated):
19. Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear):
20. Nay, (ye men!) but ye love the fleeting life,
21. And leave alone the Hereafter.
22. Some faces, that Day, will beam (in brightness and beauty);-
23. Looking towards their Lord;
24. And some faces, that Day, will be sad and dismal,
25. In the thought that some back-breaking calamity was about to be inflicted on them;
26. Yea, when (the soul) reaches to the collar-bone (in its exit),
27. And there will be a cry, "Who is a magician (to restore him)?"
28. And he will conclude that it was (the Time) of Parting;
29. And one leg will be joined with another:
30. That Day the Drive will be (all) to thy Lord!
31. So he gave nothing in charity, nor did he pray!-
32. But on the contrary, he rejected Truth and turned away!
33. Then did he stalk to his family in full conceit!
34. Woe to thee, (O men!), yea, woe!
35. Again, Woe to thee, (O men!), yea, woe!
36. Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)?
37. Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)?
38. Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did ((Allah)) make and fashion (him) in due proportion.
39. And of him He made two sexes, male and female.
40. Has not He, (the same), the power to give life to the dead?
As Muslims, we worship God not because of what He does for us, but because He is the greatest and most merciful. God is great and His existence is an amazing thing. I'm not trying to be rude or harsh, but that's the reason why as His creations we should worship Him, no other reason.
Steamdevolopment
VIP
With all due respect sister, this debate wasn't about why should pray to Allah but the problem with islamic morality.
You can either refute me or agree, it seems you agree that obeying Allah as in following sharia is rooted in "God" said so instinct rather than because it is good morality in of itself.
You therefore face the same problem as stipulated in scenario 1.
None of us here are scholars. If you want real answers from people who know the deen well, I'd say you should hit up a local mosque or something. Morality is subjective to us as human beings, so I have never thought it was right to enforce religion or anything else on anyone.
We all have one life. We don't know what awaits us after we die, no matter how faithful we are. But if Islam turns out to be the truth, I hope you haven't bet your soul on something else. I don't agree with disowning people that leave our religion though. You are Somali whether or not you follow Islam. But I hope some worldly gains don't distract you from the deen. I don't think betting your soul is worth it. Inshallah (if you're not trolling) you will come back to the right religion.
YourBroMoe
Ｗｈｏ ｔｈｅ ｆｕｃｋ ａｍ Ｉ？ ギくェズー
*eats popcorn in the side*
Steamdevolopment
VIP
Firstly I'll thank you for this message that is full empathy.
But I think you might have misunderstood me sister, I didn't leave for worldy gain, I have gained nothing from my leaving religion except no longer having to defend the unproven and irrational.
I reject islam for the same reason I never believed in Christianity because it never meet the burden of proof and both are full of scientific error and both cause human suffering for irrational reasons.
You do not need to be a scholar to find rational arguments for a morality and if you can't rationally defend it I urge you to reject it.
homosexuality is abomination and
morality really is what you are going with
Steamdevolopment
VIP
Please explain without reference to Muhammed/Allah why homosexual in consensual and safe relationship be killed?
cause Allah said so nothing more nothing less. at least i derive my morals from my religion as for you i can't say the same. what makes homosexuality acceptable in your point view and how does it benefits us as specie.
Steamdevolopment
VIP
My morality is based on decrease suffering of human (eventually all concious beings) and increasing well-being for the same while adhering to rational principle.
Consensual and homosexual relationship harm no one, in fact fewer children commit sucicide or have other adverse effects because of it and therefore it should be allowed as it decreases suffering, increases well-being and adheres to rationality.
The key to understand the cause of the inferior quality of morality from Islam requires understanding the Euthyphro dilemma.
The fundamental problem presented to theists including muslim is:
Are morally good acts willed by God because they are morally good, or are they morally good because they are willed by God?
In other words is something morally good in itself or is it morally good simply because "God" says so?
Scenario 1: Because God said so
The first scenario perfectly fits with islamic morality, that which is commanded by the Creator and superior being must be enforced otherwise we risk punishments and loose rewards in the hereafter.
It is a morality that cares first and foremost to appease this entity known as Allah, and less interested in the cohesive nature of those commands with a greater morality.
It has two main flaws, firstly the lack of evidence for a deity that is omnipotent, omniscience and personal, let alone evidence for the islamic deity, secondly the morality of this deity becomes arbitrary based on the personal whims of this imagined deity alone.
A morality based on a set of unproven stipulations is intellectual untenable and therefore the theist must resort to scenario 2.
Scenario 2: The morality of islam is morally good in of itself
Here the problem becomes to define morally good and then to measure morally good to teachings of islam.
In general all morality claims to reduce suffering and increase well-being and most claim to conform to rationality and therefore these are the three pillars by which we shall measure islam.
Sex-slavery:
Sex-slavery runs afoul of our morally good as it increases suffering for the woman who is now sexual property, and it therefore does not meet our three-pronged test.
Punishment for homosexuality:
This punishments has neither any rational basis as consensual and safe relations cause no harm neither does it contribute to increasing well-being and nor does it reduce suffering and thus it fails all three pillars.
Punishments for apostasy:
Apostasy laws can only be upheld with unwavering belief in God, and as rational people who demand extraordinary proof for this extraordinary claim such a stipulation must be rejected and the laws cause suffering and does not increase well-being and therefore also fail to meet the three pillars.
A morality that only makes sense if I agree with your superstition is poor basis for moral, don't you think? @VixR @Defendant @AussieHustler @Reiko @Knowles @Saabriin Omar
We get it you judge Islam by your definition of morality and it's kind of obvious you are no longer Muslim. (How can not be satisfied with something you rejected already?
Steamdevolopment
VIP
I mean isn't a morality that promotes suffering without a strong rational basis immoral?
How can you claim that islamic morality as presented is good morality in that light?
Always Lit
Everybody lies, which ones are tolerable??
لك دينك ؤلي دين
Invader
👾pʅɹoʍ pǝʇɐʅǝxᴉd ɐ uᴉ ƃuᴉʌᴉʅ👾
@Steamdevolopment gaal means christian you mean kafir
Invader
👾pʅɹoʍ pǝʇɐʅǝxᴉd ɐ uᴉ ƃuᴉʌᴉʅ👾
@Steamdevolopment DON'T make fun of islam as it is true to us and we respect of your choices
I mean isn't a morality that promotes suffering without a strong rational basis immoral?
How can you claim that islamic morality as presented is good morality in that light?
Islamic morality is sufficiently bullet proofed all around that it captures the hearts and minds of billion people, now for someone to question Islamic morality when they have rejected it is just pure madness. I advise you to find what works best for you, and be it homosexual morality (If that is a thing) hold on to that, instead of always playing the victim.
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