Is a working woman masculine?

Is the working woman masculine? Not necessarily. However, what is pushed in this current capitalistic market framework is a strong bias toward professional male-trait human capital and the reason is it drives higher economic gain. You see especially with high positioned workers, male characteristics are what prevails, and yes, female executives, to give an example, on average, got way more masculine traits than a teacher or a nurse, and there are good reasons for this.

Females with managerial aspirations are selected and self-select for agentic qualities, i.e. masculine traits like assertiveness, dominance, high-level strategic thinking, and decisiveness, with low in communal traits which is normally much higher amongst women in non-high rank roles -- generally what is required of ascending males. This means there is a homogenizing selection pressure regardless of gender that makes women conform to what is considered stereotypical archetypical male leadership traits as those qualities in an organizational context are considered to cover the strong role demands to deliver effective performance. So, a woman has to move a lot more from the normal disposition toward this ideal leadership profile than men.

With this in the background, of course, it will play out in a relationship. Imagine a woman primed, and somewhat maybe carry some psychological pre-requisites to be better susceptible to work and fill those conditions, bossing other men around using dominant characteristics, and then coming home to a man expecting a wife, preferring feminine traits, not a domineering woman. This does not need to be reduced to "the man is insecure" but actually the average man would see an issue with the fact that such a woman would take up a portion of his role in the marriage, and that just facilitates too much potential for a lot of issues and contentions down the line.

You might say, 'yeah, true, but the average woman is not an executive so this is not universal'. That is correct, but all jobs have an inherent hierarchy. And going further, the average woman -- even the whole of Western civil culture -- tries to advertise this executive woman as the ideal progressive form of womanhood (when in fact it is just conforming to what men naturally do), so you have a lot of women looking up to or emulating these executives as some role models without assessing if that lifestyle is healthy for the average woman, or at least be looked at from a realistic holistic lens; how what makes a woman successful at work does not translate to a being a good partner or nurturing relationships. I'm, of course, generalizing here. Yet, there is a reason high-achieving women in a very high percentile reaching maybe 50% never get children even though they want to, and end up regretting that later on. While it is the opposite for men, their high-achieving peers. Furthermore, men don't need to sacrifice childbearing and childrearing years also depresses earning power (this is where the economic inequality comes from. In truth, this issue stem from biological and parenthood differences between sexes than discrimination).

I'm not making a case for women not working or the average working woman being a bad thing as a whole, that is crazy. But I think what I specifically addressed is very much real and it permeates in the public conscience to the general population which creates a lot of unnecessary discussions like these. All in all, the woman the guy on TikTok talked about, might have indeed been masculine and dominant. To each his own, but I don't think that is the average man's choice for mate selection. Similar to how men should be expected to be men, I think women should sometimes have self-awareness and also cater to what is expected of them on the feminine side. There is nothing unhealthy about this, and you will probably increase for potential suitors. Like a man acting like a woman will surely struggle to find a woman, and I don't see men cry on their behalf. No, we say the same thing to them; be a man.
 
I think it’s a long shot but I keep making duaa because I truly just want to be taken cared of financially by my spouse so I can focus on the home and raising children. Unless your spouse is in a high paying field then two people with have to work to be middle class. I would rather work really hard the first 3-4 years of marriage to acheive mutual goals so then i can become a housewife/sahm.
Allaha ku aqbalo Huno. That's good mindset.
 
Is the working woman masculine? Not necessarily. However, what is pushed in this current capitalistic market framework is a strong bias toward professional male-trait human capital and the reason is it drives higher economic gain. You see especially with high positioned workers, male characteristics are what prevails, and yes, female executives, to give an example, on average, got way more masculine traits than a teacher or a nurse, and there are good reasons for this.

Females with managerial aspirations are selected and self-select for agentic qualities, i.e. masculine traits like assertiveness, dominance, high-level strategic thinking, and decisiveness, with low in communal traits which is normally much higher amongst women in non-high rank roles -- generally what is required of ascending males. This means there is a homogenizing selection pressure regardless of gender that makes women conform to what is considered stereotypical archetypical male leadership traits as those qualities in an organizational context are considered to cover the strong role demands to deliver effective performance. So, a woman has to move a lot more from the normal disposition toward this ideal leadership profile than men.

With this in the background, of course, it will play out in a relationship. Imagine a woman primed, and somewhat maybe carry some psychological pre-requisites to be better susceptible to work and fill those conditions, bossing other men around using dominant characteristics, and then coming home to a man expecting a wife, preferring feminine traits, not a domineering woman. This does not need to be reduced to "the man is insecure" but actually the average man would see an issue with the fact that such a woman would take up a portion of his role in the marriage, and that just facilitates too much potential for a lot of issues and contentions down the line.

You might say, 'yeah, true, but the average woman is not an executive so this is not universal'. That is correct, but all jobs have an inherent hierarchy. And going further, the average woman -- even the whole of Western civil culture -- tries to advertise this executive woman as the ideal progressive form of womanhood (when in fact it is just conforming to what men naturally do), so you have a lot of women looking up to or emulating these executives as some role models without assessing if that lifestyle is healthy for the average woman, or at least be looked at from a realistic holistic lens; how what makes a woman successful at work does not translate to a being a good partner or nurturing relationships. I'm, of course, generalizing here. Yet, there is a reason high-achieving women in a very high percentile reaching maybe 50% never get children even though they want to, and end up regretting that later on. While it is the opposite for men, their high-achieving peers. Furthermore, men don't need to sacrifice childbearing and childrearing years also depresses earning power (this is where the economic inequality comes from. In truth, this issue stem from biological and parenthood differences between sexes than discrimination).

I'm not making a case for women not working or the average working woman being a bad thing as a whole, that is crazy. But I think what I specifically addressed is very much real and it permeates in the public conscience to the general population which creates a lot of unnecessary discussions like these. All in all, the woman the guy on TikTok talked about, might have indeed been masculine and dominant. To each his own, but I don't think that is the average man's choice for mate selection. Similar to how men should be expected to be men, I think women should sometimes have self-awareness and also cater to what is expected of them on the feminine side. There is nothing unhealthy about this, and you will probably increase for potential suitors. Like a man acting like a woman will surely struggle to find a woman, and I don't see men cry on their behalf. No, we say the same thing to them; be a man.
So why don’t we think that actually being good at your job and getting higher in the ranks does not have to link to masculinity? Why don’t we consider it more of a personality variation. There are men out here who don’t have the charisma and personality to land managerial roles and are stuck into their positions because that’s their personality they prefer to be in the shadow. The same goes with women there are shy women, there are women who are naturally leaders without faking it. As a person who grew up in a very segregated environment whether in the educational system or social life. There are women who are naturally leaders and they don’t LOOK like that they are forcing themselves or faking it, again this happened in an educational conservative environment where there are no males in sight. So it is more of a personality variation than assigned gender roles. Historically, yes all those leadership positions and stuff like that were more common in men. Because women could be easily oppressed when they are physically abused and brainwashed from a younger age into certain roles, especially when there isn’t any information being taught to them other than the traditions by their families. I am sorry to say this, but women in 2022 who are keep saying that men should pay, be providing, … etc. this is basic laziness. Studies have shown that children that were born into a family where the mother is working are not different from children that were born into a family where the mother is a housewife. https://memberfiles.freewebs.com/13/79/101137913/documents/Roshan Ali Mugheri.pdf



“Learning from Mum: Cross-National Evidence Linking Maternal Employment and Adult Children’s Outcomes”



“When Does Time Matter? Maternal Employment, Children’s Time With Parents, and Child Development”


Plus women work harder in their prime to go up higher in their jobs earlier than men because later in their age opportunities would drop significantly if they are older due to society thinking that children hinder women from working hard, this is a bias that women have to work against. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220603-why-women-have-to-sprint-into-leadership-positions



My mother is a housewife but still spends time that people are working when we are not home to take courses to learn stuff she never stopped that is equivalent to working from 9-5. Even though no one asked her to do so. When I asked my mom why she is doing that? She said she doesn’t want to go crazy by sitting around and doing nothing, there would be other women pass time to watch soap operas,.. etc. which is not good for mental health. House chores (not children) with good managing skills should not take more than 2 hours a day, especially when we have washing machines and ovens and other modern lifestyles privileges, we don’t need to wash clothes with our hands and food preparation takes about 30 minutes, why are people making everything a big deal.
 
So why don’t we think that actually being good at your job and getting higher in the ranks does not have to link to masculinity? Why don’t we consider it more of a personality variation. There are men out here who don’t have the charisma and personality to land managerial roles and are stuck into their positions because that’s their personality they prefer to be in the shadow. The same goes with women there are shy women, there are women who are naturally leaders without faking it. As a person who grew up in a very segregated environment whether in the educational system or social life. There are women who are naturally leaders and they don’t LOOK like that they are forcing themselves or faking it, again this happened in an educational conservative environment where there are no males in sight. So it is more of a personality variation than assigned gender roles. Historically, yes all those leadership positions and stuff like that were more common in men. Because women could be easily oppressed when they are physically abused and brainwashed from a younger age into certain roles, especially when there isn’t any information being taught to them other than the traditions by their families. I am sorry to say this, but women in 2022 who are keep saying that men should pay, be providing, … etc. this is basic laziness. Studies have shown that children that were born into a family where the mother is working are not different from children that were born into a family where the mother is a housewife. https://memberfiles.freewebs.com/13/79/101137913/documents/Roshan Ali Mugheri.pdf



“Learning from Mum: Cross-National Evidence Linking Maternal Employment and Adult Children’s Outcomes”



“When Does Time Matter? Maternal Employment, Children’s Time With Parents, and Child Development”


Plus women work harder in their prime to go up higher in their jobs earlier than men because later in their age opportunities would drop significantly if they are older due to society thinking that children hinder women from working hard, this is a bias that women have to work against. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220603-why-women-have-to-sprint-into-leadership-positions



My mother is a housewife but still spends time that people are working when we are not home to take courses to learn stuff she never stopped that is equivalent to working from 9-5. Even though no one asked her to do so. When I asked my mom why she is doing that? She said she doesn’t want to go crazy by sitting around and doing nothing, there would be other women pass time to watch soap operas,.. etc. which is not good for mental health. House chores (not children) with good managing skills should not take more than 2 hours a day, especially when we have washing machines and ovens and other modern lifestyles privileges, we don’t need to wash clothes with our hands and food preparation takes about 30 minutes, why are people making everything a big deal.
Basically, top position jobs require what is naturally normal from the biological disposition of men. Males and females behaviorally are different underpinned by biological realities. Sure you can have variation in personality traits on a distribution scale, but this is not overlapping and is dimensionally reductive as male and female brains fundamentally are different. The country with the most social freedom between genders, the one I currently live in, still has a typical gender skew in a career choice that pattern across what we always assumed because women choose what they enjoy, mirroring men will not equate to happiness. Even babies, infants young as 9 months old have different developmental trajectories across genders and chose toys specific to their own gender. This is not some social pressure, there is a difference between males and females. Of course, there can be minor cultural factors that reinforce what clearly lies underneath but they do not define the differences on a chief basis.

I'm not responding to if women should work or not, that was never my initial claim. I responded to the particular thread question and content of that TikTok, and how high achieving roles, mainly in the corporate world, (can also be academic), reflects stark differences between men and women in regards to relationship, parenting, etc. If women want to find themselves a good job and work, that is great, they're half the workforce after all.
 

zackattack

Cowabunga
Nah it's a god sent when your girl works in this expensive life , nothing's getting cheaper so unless I become rich I would want my wife to help out .
 
Basically, top position jobs require what is naturally normal from the biological disposition of men. Males and females behaviorally are different underpinned by biological realities. Sure you can have variation in personality traits on a distribution scale, but this is not overlapping and is dimensionally reductive as male and female brains fundamentally are different. The country with the most social freedom between genders, the one I currently live in, still has a typical gender skew in a career choice that pattern across what we always assumed because women choose what they enjoy, mirroring men will not equate to happiness. Even babies, infants young as 9 months old have different developmental trajectories across genders and chose toys specific to their own gender. This is not some social pressure, there is a difference between males and females. Of course, there can be minor cultural factors that reinforce what clearly lies underneath but they do not define the differences on a chief basis.

I'm not responding to if women should work or not, that was never my initial claim. I responded to the particular thread question and content of that TikTok, and how high achieving roles, mainly in the corporate world, (can also be academic), reflects stark differences between men and women in regards to relationship, parenting, etc. If women want to find themselves a good job and work, that is great, they're half the workforce after all.
Sorry, I got carried away by the working part. Yes there are biological, personality and cultural variations in how men and women act they way they do. Yes men are more common in leadership positions than women now, that doesn’t mean we should encourage younger women not to be leaders since it is a man’s job. Some women tend to double think, worry more, complicate things more because we overthink too much. Constantly any thoughts that we say or anything we do is constantly being attacked from a young age, hence you see a lot of hesitancy from women where urgent decisions and instant creative solutions don’t need all that time to be thought for that will not help to be a leader and that could be fixed I think. Studies for example show that daughters to women in managing positions tend to do better in their careers compared to daughters of a traditional household. Because children’s thought process and how they see gender roles and interactions is greatly shaped from their family and their community.


But I again stand with my point some women are not trying to equate with men or faking masculinity. They are doing what they want to do, because that is who they are. No one is happy with anything 100%, women who are leaders can be sad or depressed, why link it to their positions? Women who are housewives can also be depressed (which personally I have seen and the movie called “revolutionary road” depicts this aspect too). But some men are perceiving that differently. No one can change an extrovert to an introvert, it is somehow impossible. If certain men are not attracted to women being leaders and being serious in their job, that’s his own issue, why talk on behalf of the entire male gender. No need for generalizing and enforcing certain cultural beliefs (that is not constructive) into young girls saying that should happen and this shouldn’t happen “to some extent”.

Does every female leader other than doing her job exactly acts like a man (which requires seriousness and not double checking for answers which is common in women generally due to cultural upbringings, otherwise no one will respect her)? Does she stop wearing makeup? Does she stop wearing female clothing ? Is interested in sports? Is interested in bodybuilding? Does she develop the body language of male? No!

when we say “men acting like women”? It is more related to clothing and the body languages of a female.
 

Qeelbax

East Africa UNUKA LEH
VIP
A job requires you to be competitive, dominate over others and even if you don't realise it, that rubs a bit of go getter masculine energy on you.
So is khadijah ra masculine? She was the CEO of her buisness and prophet muhammed saw was her subordinate, you are implying that our prophet was….feminine?

See that doesn’t make sense. Please use your brain and refrain from low iq posting. Jazakallah khair.
 

Qeelbax

East Africa UNUKA LEH
VIP
There are jobs more appropriate for women and jobs more appropriate for men. For example, Women shouldn't be in the army as combatants because that makes no sense since they're too weak for that. Men shouldn't work as nursery daycare workers because women are better with children. And so on and so forth.
It’s 2022, wars hardly are face to face. A man with a gun and a woman with a gun ain’t no different.

And caring for children or working with them in any capacity is how much you like children. Couldn’t be me.
women feel more for THEIR children not all children, hence the evil stepmother trope. There’s a psychological and hormonal change that causes that. We don’t have that for children that aren’t ours.
 

Qeelbax

East Africa UNUKA LEH
VIP
Depends on the job. Nursery/primary school teacher? :banderas:

Anything in finance, IT or managerial positions give off nigga energy, but f*ck it. Living ain't cheap.
Manager to me gives very much female. Finance, I think of cadaan men. IT I think of men, but also any smart person looking for a bag. Including myself. Just cause a job is male/female dominated doesn’t mean it’s traditionally for one or the other. IT is new, how does that even give male energy? Sitting down an coding is not masculine but fighting a lion for some food is.
 

Qeelbax

East Africa UNUKA LEH
VIP
When you negotiate a contract...
When your in a meeting and you put your point across
When you order around those beneath you if you have a managerial post
Etc the list goes on
Most women can't transition so if they are a boss at work they'll try act like one at home.
This whole topic makes it seem like ppl are creating stories out of thin air.
Please refrain from low iq posting
 
With regards to work, what's masculine and what's feminine, depends on a man's insecurities and ego. Throughout history, women not earning an income has allowed men to gain access to women by preying on their need to survive. Without that, a lot of men are struggling to get a wife.

Somali men never thought it was 'masculine' for women to build the aresh or to walk hours to the well or to look after goats and other animals. These are 'physical' jobs that require manpower or 'woman power' shall I say. It's a lot harder than a woman working in an air conditioned office. Women have been 'working' along side men for thousands of years. Women would be working the fields alongside their husbands on his farm or land or if they're peasants they would work for their overlord ect. Even upper class women would work as accountants and managers as they would be in charge of the accounting books and looking after the servants ect. Yet, when women do this to for their benefit to earn an independent income, it is seen as 'masculine'.

What some men consider 'masculine' , is women being paid for their time and efforts. The idea of women having their own income is a threat to their security and ego.
 
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Qeelbax

East Africa UNUKA LEH
VIP
With regards to work, what's masculine and what's feminine, depends on a man's insecurities and ego.

Somali men never thought it was 'masculine' for women to build the aresh or to walk hours to the well or to look after goats and other animals. These are 'physical' jobs a lot harder than a woman working in an office which is a lot suited to her body. Women have been 'working' along side men for thousands of years. Women would be working the fields alongside their husbands ect. The only women who would not work were the upper classes.

What some men consider 'masculine' , is women being paid for their time and efforts. The idea of women having their own income is a threat to their security and ego.
Abdis are gonna skip your post!
 
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR8EDu37/?k=1

What are your thoughts on this video? I personally don’t agree. To be deemed as masculine or feminine, wouldn’t the main thing you look to consider be how you portray yourself and not your occupation/education??

Have you noticed that many religious men are against women working? If there is no ruling against women working in Islam why do they hate it so much?

Woman has job = Money = Independence = Not relying on her husband = If he tries some dumb shit she has the resources to get the hell out

These men are scared and they themselves are not in their masculine energy that’s why they’re projecting onto women telling them they aren’t feminine. Reverse psychology

Why does nobody talk about how insecure a lot of men are?
Who is the individual in the video? Is he just giving his own advices or does he have some sort of qualification lol

I see a lot of fluff here with not much sustenance tbh. I found what he said to be repetitive and similar to talking points made by certain other content creators online.
 
Abdis are gonna skip your post!
Of course they are. Anyone that has any understanding of history will tell you women have worked for thousands of years. From working in the fields, to looking after livestock to even a rich aristocratic wife managing her husbands estates which would be similar to being a CEO as those estates would be huge with at least dozens of people working for the family. It was the wife's duty to manage the servants and manage the household income.

Women working, is only an issue now because we get paid, and because working benefits us and our future. Also, another issue is that for the first time in history, many women now out educate and out earn men. Women aren't marrying or staying in relationships due to survival and sadly without that, a lot of men cannot attract women. All of this boils down to the ability to get women.
 

Lostbox

「Immortal Sage」| Qabil-fluid
VIP
Can he afford to have his future wife not work? Paying for himself is difficult for a average working class man. Add in a wife and maybe a kid on a single income. That would provide a terrible lifestyle
 
It doesn’t really make sense to call working women masculine because housewives have never been the norm. You’re basically saying the vast majority of women throughout human history were masculine. 🤔
 
Of course they are. Anyone that has any understanding of history will tell you women have worked for thousands of years. From working in the fields, to looking after livestock to even a rich aristocratic wife managing her husbands estates which would be similar to being a CEO as those estates would be huge with at least dozens of people working for the family. It was the wife's duty to manage the servants and manage the household income.

Women working, is only an issue now because we get paid, and because working benefits us and our future. Also, another issue is that for the first time in history, many women now out educate and out earn men. Women aren't marrying or staying in relationships due to survival and sadly without that, a lot of men cannot attract women. All of this boils down to the ability to get women.
You are a misandrist :susp:
 
Nah it's a god sent when your girl works in this expensive life , nothing's getting cheaper so unless I become rich I would want my wife to help out .
I'll put on an apron and start dusting the house like a 50s style housewife if she's willing to chip in with the mortgage payments sxb. The guys who think working = masculine/unattractive don't seem to understand the economic situation we're in :heh:
 

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