IMPORTANT: new archaeological finds in Somaliland

[Grant]

It's only the context that gives objects like these value. By themselves they are virtually undatable and practically without meaning. Once removed, this context is lost and generally unrecoverable.

In an ideal world sites like that would be identified and protected and dug only by trained archaeologists under government permit and only after a plan for the preservation of any artifacts found has been made. Sada Mire would be the one.

 

[DuctTape]

It's only the context that gives objects like these value. By themselves they are virtually undatable and practically without meaning. Once removed, this context is lost and generally unrecoverable.

In an ideal world sites like that would be identified and protected and dug only by trained archaeologists under government permit and only after a plan for the preservation of any artifacts found has been made. Sada Mire would be the one.

Apparently Sada Mire is a bad choice according to some users here.
They referenced shady dealings with the Somaliland government and the intentional covering up of certain artifacts by Western archaeologists.
I'm not sure how legit of a claim this is, but multiple users agreed with this.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Sada Mire a Masters and PH.D. holder in Archaeology is a bad choice but
an Amateur tampering and removing potential artifacts for personal storage is all right?

IQ at work here ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Gilgamesh]

What would westerners gain from covering it up? They're the ones who rediscovered 99% of ancient history!
Where is this paranoia coming from?

 

[Prince Abubu]

Wait, what's wrong with Sada Mire?

 

[Grant]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9

Here is Dr Mire's 2015 paper mapping the archaeology of Somaliland. She finds ancient Christian and Jewish items in villages around Aw Barkhadle; that much of the area of the North was controlled by Axum at one point; that the inscriptions are in scripts from Himyar and Saba and the area is part of a larger, regional culture. These are concepts that are especially unattractive to some Somalis.

As of this writing, Dr Mire has taken a neutral stance on the "Puntite" sites (quotation marks hers), declaring only that they and the statuary need to be "examined properly". As far as I am aware neither she nor any western academic have supported their authenticity, which is likely the "problem". Simply put, the context does not exist, which is unsatisfying to some Somalilanders.

Here is what she says:

"The Sheikh took me to his house in Hargeysa to show me the so-called “Pharaonic” sculptures. He proudly declared that he was selling them for up to US $15000, and named well-known figures as his clientele. The Ministry was worried that due to the demand for illicit antiquities, there might be (re)productions of sculptures. However, the sites were former cairns that had been emptied of their stones. Usually stonecutters who are selling stones to construction companies roam the landscapes for cairn sites, as these are perfectly sized stones for building local houses. I was shown sites with alleged Pharaonic artefacts; these include the twin peaks of Naaso Hablood (“girl’s breasts,” 107), Maxamood Mooge (109), Hargeysa Airport area and Masalaha (108). I have previously climbed the left peak, which has shelters with stone tools. Also, there are underground caves that show ancient habitation in the area between the two peaks. The Land of Punt thus may well be the area of current-day Somalia/Somaliland. However, the current interest has triggered looting activities, as demand has increased from wealthy locals for so-called “Puntite” sculptures. The sculptures and decorated tiles claimed to be of “Puntite” origin must be examined properly along with the sites attributed to them, some of them noted in the maps herein."

 

[Prince Abubu]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9

Here is Dr Mire's 2015 paper mapping the archaeology of Somaliland. She finds ancient Christian and Jewish items in villages around Aw Barkhadle; that much of the area of the North was controlled by Axum at one point; that the inscriptions are in scripts from Himyar and Saba and the area is part of a larger, regional culture. These are concepts that are especially unattractive to some Somalis.

As of this writing, Dr Mire has taken a neutral stance on the "Puntite" sites (quotation marks hers), declaring only that they and the statuary need to be "examined properly". As far as I am aware neither she nor any western academic have supported their authenticity, which is likely the "problem". Simply put, the context does not exist, which is unsatisfying to some Somalilanders.

Here is what she says:

"The Sheikh took me to his house in Hargeysa to show me the so-called “Pharaonic” sculptures. He proudly declared that he was selling them for up to US $15000, and named well-known figures as his clientele. The Ministry was worried that due to the demand for illicit antiquities, there might be (re)productions of sculptures. However, the sites were former cairns that had been emptied of their stones. Usually stonecutters who are selling stones to construction companies roam the landscapes for cairn sites, as these are perfectly sized stones for building local houses. I was shown sites with alleged Pharaonic artefacts; these include the twin peaks of Naaso Hablood (“girl’s breasts,” 107), Maxamood Mooge (109), Hargeysa Airport area and Masalaha (108). I have previously climbed the left peak, which has shelters with stone tools. Also, there are underground caves that show ancient habitation in the area between the two peaks. The Land of Punt thus may well be the area of current-day Somalia/Somaliland. However, the current interest has triggered looting activities, as demand has increased from wealthy locals for so-called “Puntite” sculptures. The sculptures and decorated tiles claimed to be of “Puntite” origin must be examined properly along with the sites attributed to them, some of them noted in the maps herein."

Firstly, she's just being a professional and covering her back in case these artifacts turn out fake and the sites corrupted. Personally, i think those "artifacts" are fraudulent and just a quick scheme to rule unsuspecting buyers. Secondly, she express doubt that the location of Punt is in Somaliland/Northern Somalia.

Thirdly, just because there are a few South Arabian scribblings here and there, doesn't mean the region was part of Axum. Scribblings and graffiti doesn't mean anything other than people who spoke those languages passed through the area.

You have a pet theory, and you're trying everything you can to make it fit. That's not a good way to approach history and archeology.

 

[Grant]

Firstly, she's just being a professional and covering her back in case these artifacts turn out fake and the sites corrupted. Personally, i think those "artifacts" are fraudulent and just a quick scheme to rule unsuspecting buyers. Secondly, she express doubt that the location of Punt is in Somaliland/Northern Somalia.

Thirdly, just because there are a few South Arabian scribblings here and there, doesn't mean the region was part of Axum. Scribblings and graffiti doesn't mean anything other than people who spoke those languages passed through the area.

You have a pet theory, and you're trying everything you can to make it fit. That's not a good way to approach history and archeology.

PA,

There is no shoe-horning going on here. It might be a good idea to read the paper:

"A grave marked with a stele carrying an Orthodox cross was found in situ at Aw-Barkhadle, which confirms that Christianity was known here during pre-Islamic times or contemporary with Islam. The Somali Tumaal (blacksmiths) tribe, thought to have a Hebrew origin, are said to still visit the Xabaalo tumaalood (blacksmiths’ cemeteries), 30 km from Berbera on the Berbera Road, for ancestral veneration rites. The Somali regions in the north were, in pre-Islamic times, part of the Aksumite empire. Also, gravestones marked with a Star of David are found around Dhubato (27) village in Hargeysa region."

That the Somaliland region was part of Axum does not follow from Himyarite and Sabaean inscriptions. That was a separate period and a separate culture. Axum came significantly later and very likely sent the Yibir to control the Bab el-Mandeb during the period the Fallasha controlled southern Arabia.

You can accept Dr Mire's conclusions or deny her as a fraud as some here apparently do. Personally, I am comfortable with her Western techniques and professional archaeology. Her narrative fits in well with the balance of what other historians and archaeologists have found, and that is my test.

I think Dr Mire is unpopular because her findings are unpopular. It seems to me a little like my own ratings.

 

[horumar]

Thank god for Somali superstition, most of these archaeological sites have already been discovered, people are just wary of going near them due to 'jins'

These patterns are strange, they resemble pre-European south America artifacts and are not consistent with other findings.

I'm not an archaeologist but either they are recent (past 1000 years)

Or they are from another place, that eventually came to the horn through trade.

 

[Zayd]

Niggas sitting on their ass claiming I'm tampering with my ancient history, subhanallah, the items are well intact. It's not like not having a masters makes you a toddler who smashes everything, I spend a great deal of my time observing documentaries on archaeological procedures on excavations carried out in desert countries similar to Somaliland.

 

[Zayd]

It's just that I'm not going to submit my toiling to someone who emerged from a western academic cloning factory, Ebbe knows best how much I resent seeing my people become carbon copies of another culture.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

All across Awdal, Sanaag, Waqooyi Galbeed, Sool, Nugaal etc there are so many signs that a great civilization once existed, one that predated modern day Somalis. Signs of urban and agricultural settlements all across Northern Somalia which are now just pure grazing land. In Awdal, there are massive ancient towns, and in Sanaag ancient ports.

It's clear that the lazy useless modern day Geeljire is not capable of building such a great civilization, but who is to say that the people who once lived here were not Somalis themselves? Perhaps they spoke in a different type of dialect like Raxanweyne speak Af May today? I believe that this great civilization was once the land of Punt, and ethnic Somalis who spoke a different dialect were once part of it. And it was destroyed by the Geeljires we are descended from today. In Arabia, there are countless examples where the nomads destroyed settled communities and civilizations.

Perhaps the reason why the Tumaal and the Gabooye are looked down upon today is because they were part of this civilization, how else did they gain their skills? Perhaps there were dozens of different dialects spoken in modern day Somalia as well?

@Grant @Prince of Hobyo @jugjugwacwac @Thegoodshepherd @Inquisitive_ @SultanuuFicaan what do you think about my post?

 

[government]

All across Awdal, Sanaag, Waqooyi Galbeed, Sool, Nugaal etc there are so many signs that a great civilization once existed, one that predated modern day Somalis. Signs of urban and agricultural settlements all across Northern Somalia which are now just pure grazing land. In Awdal there are massive ancient towns and in Sanaag ancient ports.

It's clear that the lazy useless modern day Somali is not capable of building such a great civilization, but who is to say that the people who once lived here were not Somalis themselves? Perhaps they spoke in a different type of dialect like Raxanweyne speak Af May? Perhaps the Tumaal and the Madhibaan were once part of it today? I believe that this great civilization was once the land of Punt, and ethnic Somalis who spoke a different dialect were once part of it. And it was destroyed by the Geeljires we are descended from today.

Somalia had already many great civilizations and sultanates

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Somalia had already many great civilizations and sultanates

Lol, I did not say Somalia didn't. I said that the modern day Geeljires didn't build any great civilization/sultanates. That doesn't mean Somalis didn't, because they most likely did. But that another group of Somalis existed, that most likely spoke in a different dialect.

My grandfather told me that none of the wells in Nugaal were built by Dhulbahante. So who built the wells?

 

[government]

Lol, I did not say Somalia didn't. I said that the modern day Geeljires didn't build any great civilization/sultanates. It's not possible.

My grandfather told me that none of the wells in Nugaal were built by Dhulbahante. So who built the wells?

There where Many sultanates like ajuraan and adal etc etc these where in 15th century

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

There where Many sultanates like ajuraan and adal etc etc

And who said that the modern day Somali built any of them?

 

[government]

And who said that the modern day Somali built any of them?

Do you think Somalis just got brought to the horn of Africa in the 16th century and the original inhabitants suddenly vanished

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Do you think Somalis just got brought to the horn of Africa in the 16th century and the original inhabitants suddenly vanished

You don't understand me.

I believe that modern day Somalia was very diverse in terms of ethnic Somalis in the past. Before colonization, almost all Northern Somalis were Geeljire and there were no large settled populations or towns. I think that "Sab" were the majority in all of Somalia in the past, and that the Geeljires defeated them and destroyed their civilization. That's my point.

 

[random12345]

You don't understand me.

I believe that modern day Somalia was very diverse in terms of ethnic Somalis in the past. Before colonization, almost all Northern Somalis were Geeljire and there were no large settled populations or towns. I think that "Sab" were the majority in all of Somalia in the past, and that the Geeljires defeated them and destroyed their civilization. That's my point.

That's cause most of Northern Somalia was Isaaq? The civilisation(not being qabilist here since I ain't Darood) were by Darood leaders. Them being Saab is extremely unlikely. Even in Arab civilisations, Nomads and rural people were the majority. Why any different for Somalis?

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

That's cause most of Northern Somalia was Isaaq? The civilisation(not being qabilist here since I ain't Darood) were by Darood leaders. Them being Saab is extremely unlikely. Even in Arab civilisations, Nomads and rural people were the majority. Why any different for Somalis?

Actually the majority of Northern Somalia was probably Dir before. Why are there large ancient towns? Who built them? Where did Tumaal/Gabooye come from? Perhaps they were the survivors of the settled people and were enslaved? Nomads always look down upon settled people, hard workers and farmers.