Iberomauresian had African DNA but from who?

[CaliTedesse]

Did you know the Iberomauresians had Sub Saharan African DNA. I wonder from which part and people since Somalis have proto Nilote SSA DNA?


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/03/oldest-dna-africa-offers-clues-mysterious-ancient-culture

@EDsomali @sophisticate

 

[Apollo]

They are not mixed with modern-day Sub-Saharan Africans, but rather they descend from Ancestral North Africans who never left Africa (partially). They are something like 50% ANA 50% West Eurasian.

The Sub-Saharan component in them is a false signal.

Rather modern-day Sub-Saharans (including West Africans) are a mixture of ANA and more primitive stuff.

 

[CaliTedesse]

They are not mixed with modern-day Sub-Saharan Africans, but rather they descend from Ancestral North Africans who never left Africa (partially). They are something like 50% ANA 50% West Eurasian.

The Sub-Saharan component in them is a false signal.

Rather modern-day Sub-Saharans (including West Africans) are a mixture of ANA and more primitive stuff.

How is that a false signal. Can you cite a journal on this matter. I believe this is pretty fascinating.

 

[Apollo]

How is that a false signal. Can you cite a journal on this matter. I believe this is pretty fascinating.

 

[CaliTedesse]

But here it says they share genes with Hadza-like ancestry by using West African and Natufian DNA as sample references. The Hadza, or Hadzabe,[ are an indigenous ethnic group in north-central Tanzania, living around Lake Eyasi in the central Rift Valley and in the neighboring Serengeti Plateau. There are, as of 2015, between 1,200 and 1,300 Hadza people living in Tanzania, however only around 300 Hadza still survive exclusively based on the traditional means of foraging. Wallahi I'm gobsmacked.

 

[Apollo]

But here it says they share genes with Hadza-like ancestry by using West African and Natufian DNA as sample references. Wallahi I'm gobsmacked.

View attachment 75171

It's a false signal. It's difficult to explain, but let me try:

If you look at that chart above ANA and AEA split near each other and with just Taforalt samples in an admixture study and not many ANA populations (since they are extinct today) it will attribute it to rare types of Africans like AEAs/Hadzas/Mota while having split from them over 70,000 years ago.

 

[CaliTedesse]

It's a false signal. It's difficult to explain, but let me try:

If you look at that chart above ANA and AEA split near each other and with just Taforalt samples in an admixture study and not many ANA populations (since they are extinct today) it will attribute it to rare types of Africans like AEAs/Hadzas/Mota while having split from them over 70,000 years ago.

Okay so that doesn't necessarily mean it's from Hadza but rather shows affinity with Hadza DNA, but might've originated from other ancient North Africans , which the Hadza might have gotten it from too?

 

[Apollo]

Okay so that doesn't necessarily mean it's from Hadza but rather shows affinity with Hadza DNA, but might've originated from other ancient North Africans , which the Hadza might have gotten it from too?

Mota and the Hadza are rather similar and if you look at that chart above they apparently don't have ANA (too Southern located). While West Africans (closer to North Africa) have it.

I think today Maghrebis and Fulanis (the ones with high Berber-like admixture, not the highly SSA ones) have the most ANA, maybe some Toubous as well. I think Egyptians have less of it, seeing how the Natufian sample charts above.

 

[Sophisticate]

Did you know the Iberomauresians had Sub Saharan African DNA. I wonder from which part and people since Somalis have proto Nilote SSA DNA?


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/03/oldest-dna-africa-offers-clues-mysterious-ancient-culture

@EDsomali @sophisticate

So, @Apollo means to tell us there was only a one-way transfer of ANA, with no Ancient West Subsaharan coming there way during the Humid Period (around 13,000 BC).:siilaanyosmile: (And it's not like we can acquire even older samples any time soon (due to poor preservation of aDNA in hot climates). How confident can one be regarding this? Are we made to believe that the North had some genetic barrier from West whereby only the West was impacted by their gene flow even in Ancient times? Even if that's the incontrovertible truth it seems like a simple model. I would rather say the jury is still out.

Personally, I'm uninvested in what these lots were or are today but I can still leave room for doubt or further exploration. I'm only possessive of Somali genes. Everyone else (be they remote or closer) is still an ajnabi to me. :siilaanyolaugh:

 

[Apollo]

So, @Apollo means to tell us there was only a one-way transfer of ANA, with no Ancient West Subsaharan coming there way during the Humid Period (around 13,000 BC).:siilaanyosmile: (And it's not like we can acquire even older samples any time soon (due to poor preservation of aDNA in hot climates). How confident can one be regarding this? Are we made to believe that the North had some genetic barrier from West whereby only the West was impacted by their gene flow even in Ancient times? Even if that's the incontrovertible truth it seems like a simple model. I would rather say the jury is still out.

Personally, I'm uninvested in what these lots were or are today but I can still leave room for doubt or further exploration. I'm only possessive of Somali genes. Everyone else (be they remote or closer) is still an ajnabi to me. :siilaanyolaugh:

Those are the formal analysis methods that are significantly more reliable than the K= admixture program. There is absolutely zero evidence of true Sub-Saharan ancestry in the Taforalt. You cannot compare epipaleolithic populations to mobile modern populations. People in the old days did not move around much.

The Taforalt also only carried mtDNA U6 and M1, nothing maternally related to West Africans unlike modern-day Maghrebis who have genuine SSA from the Arab slave trade but also Iberian Neolithic. They are not the same people.

 

[Sophisticate]

Those are the formal methods that are more reliable than the K= admixture program. There is absolutely zero evidence of true Sub-Saharan ancestry in the Taforalt. You cannot compare epipaleolithic populations to mobile modern populations. People in the old days did not move around much.

The Taforalt also only carried mtDNA U6 and M1, nothing related to West Africans like modern-day Maghrebis (who have genuine SSA from the Arab slave trade).

Interesting. The layman in me hears ( immobility of ancient populations and thinks inbred).

 

[Apollo]

Interesting. The layman in me hears ( immobility of ancient populations and thinks inbred).

Weren't you into the paleo diet? Are you still?

I'm no longer interested in the paleo diet when I found out that I carry the East African lactase persistence gene. I'm a Neolithic mutant so why eat paleo food.

 

[Sophisticate]

Weren't you into the paleo diet? Are you still?

I'm no longer interested in the paleo diet when I found out that I carry the East African lactase persistence gene. I'm a Neolithic mutant so why eat paleo food.

I'm not lactose intolerant either. But you can still be Primal-Paleo. That includes dairy. Some have issues with the protein casein in cow's milk.

The caano is North America isn't quite the same as what's found in Europe, Asia and Africa.

A protein fragment called BMC-7 is associated with autoimmunity and depending on the type of amino acid it binds to in the bloodstream will reflect what happens. The amino acid proline is found in these Immigrant cows (A2) which holds tightly to BCM-7, while histidine is found in North American cattle (A1 cows). And BCM-7 released from milk in A1 cows in North America is several times higher than their European counterparts.

Doesn't the milk taste different around here? Also, if an individual improves their gut health they might not be as reactive to BCM-7 in general.

Similarly, I've seen people who were fine with consuming dairy raw, in the form of fermented cheeses.

I could never go vegan. I don't have the constitution for it. I've tried long ago and even with B12 supplementation, I was still deficient. My theory is Somalis don't fair well totally meatless. We're carnivore leaning ominvores. Whereas, these West Africans do better as vegans. Honestly, we need personalized nutrition informed by one's genetic makeup, where they live and any nutrient interactions that may or might not agree with them (at the individual level).

 

[MI]

But here it says they share genes with Hadza-like ancestry by using West African and Natufian DNA as sample references. The Hadza, or Hadzabe,[ are an indigenous ethnic group in north-central Tanzania, living around Lake Eyasi in the central Rift Valley and in the neighboring Serengeti Plateau. There are, as of 2015, between 1,200 and 1,300 Hadza people living in Tanzania, however only around 300 Hadza still survive exclusively based on the traditional means of foraging. Wallahi I'm gobsmacked.

View attachment 75171

It’s all in this paper
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/09/20/423079.full.pdf

“
Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt-related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source
“

 

[Prince Abubu]

Some of the terms you guys bandy about are confusing. Are you saying ancient Maghrebians were a mix of a native non-sub-saharan people (ANA?) and ancient levantines (magicians)? And that modern North Africans have a bit more sub-saharan ancestry they picked up from West Africa?
If so, what relationship do these people have with Somalis?

 

[Apollo]

Some of the terms you guys bandy about are confusing. Are you saying ancient Maghrebians were a mix of a native non-sub-saharan people (ANA?) and ancient levantines (magicians)? And that modern North Africans have a bit more sub-saharan ancestry they picked up from West Africa?
If so, what relationship do these people have with Somalis?

You forgot the Anatolian Neolithic component (from Iberia ironically) which Maghrebis acquired after the existence of the Taforalt peoples.

About their relationship with Somalis. These Taforalt samples were very close to the TMRCA of E-M78. I am not aware of any other samples so close to a TMRCA of a major lineage. Also, Somalis might be carrying ANA autosomally.

 

[EDsomali]

You forgot the Anatolian Neolithic component (from Iberia ironically) which Maghrebis acquired after the existence of the Taforalt peoples.

About their relationship with Somalis. These Taforalt samples were very close to the TMRCA of E-M78. I am not aware of any other samples so close to a TMRCA of a major lineage. Also, Somalis might be carrying ANA autosomally.

From our AEA side?

 

[Apollo]

From our AEA side?

AEA and ANA are not closely related, they split tens of thousands of years ago. I don't get the question?

 

[EDsomali]

AEA and ANA are not closely related, they split tens of thousands of years ago. I don't get the question?

No.

I'm saying does our AEA side have the ANA ancestry?

Our Eurasian side is much closer to Natufians then Iberomaurusians.

 

[Apollo]

No.

I'm saying does our AEA side have the ANA ancestry?

Our Eurasian side is much closer to Natufians then Iberomaurusians.

Depends. I think in North Sudan, maybe parts of Egypt, Libya, and Chad there may have been AEA-ANA intermediaries, but I doubt so in the paleolithic Horn which from all the available data seemed to have been a very isolated region very different from today's Horners.