How tribalism is being used to undermine our shared ethnicity.

[Angelina]

In political science, “nation” and “ethnicity” occupy related but distinct concepts. An ethnicity is a cultural/ethnic community defined by shared language, ancestry, religion, or customs; it endures even without formally organized institutions or borders. A nation, by contrast, implies not only a common identity but also some degree of political cohesion typically expressed through institutions, centralized governance, and recognized territorial boundaries.

Historically, the Somalis did not constitute a unified nation-state in the conventional sense. Rather, the region was characterized by a patchwork of autonomous clans and kinship groups who shared a common language and cultural traits; nothing more.

Unlike historically centralized civilizations such as Iran, China, Egypt, Morocco, and even India; nations with longstanding state traditions, recurring periods of unification, and relatively stable territorial identities. The Somali territories lacked a sustained, centralized political structure that encompassed the entire ethnic group.

The narrative that a unified Somali polity existed prior to colonial intervention is, in fact, a constructed political instrument. Southern Somali elites have promoted this national myth to legitimize the centrality of Xamar and to subjugate other Somalis to the ruling interests of the Xamarawi based Hawiye-Jabarti duopoly.



Because Somalis were an ethnicity….and this wasn’t even the earliest mention of ethnic Somalis.

When I use the word ‘nation’ I mean a nation of people based on ethnicity. I acknowledge we were never a nationhood or state which is why becoming one centralized country was difficult

Awal, I totally agree and if you read what I wrote you’d know that. We are an ethnicity but we have never been politically aligned. Which is why I said, I don’t care about the idea of Djibouti, Somaliland, heck even a Puntland

I take issue with ethnic minorities who reside in Somalia saying that ethnic Somalis have different origins or crazy politicians in Somaliland creating a false narrative that they’re ethnically different to a Southerner so that they can create a Somaliland identity which is hilarious since you and a Gadabursi or a Dhulo don’t even have the same political motives. All of this a joke.

 

[Angelina]

Why should I care who ruled Xamar or Banadir in the past? Banadiri Indians are your cousins, don’t expect foreign Somalis to step-in on your behalf because of “shared ethnicity”

Because they also claim to have ruled Zeila. They claim that Arabs have ruled every successful port on the Somali peninsula. Foreign and both being Somali doesn’t make sense, even the Gulf Arabs who are all recognized as being different states call non Arabs and non Khaleeji as ‘Foreign’ and you a man whose so called nation is still under Somalia since you’re not recognized is calling other Somalis foreign.

Garaad, the issue of Somalis never having a
Centralized gov is also biting Somaliland as well. You’re going by colonial borders and you can’t even play nice with those who have historically lived in these borders. The Dhulos aren’t leaving their land and now a chunk of historic British Somaliland isnt controlled by your GoV.

The whole thing is a joke.

 

[Garaad Awal]

We had centralized civilizations before the oromo invasions

You must live in an alternate timeline

 

[Garaad Awal]

Because they also claim to have ruled Zeila.

Never seen them claim SL history. They generally are super obsessed about Banadir. If they ever claimed Adal or Ifat or any of the ancient antiquity ports like Zeila & Berbera. Landers would put them in their place & would not need to beg other Somalis to help defend ourselves.

Lastly these people are 40% Somali which derives from Raxanweyn & Hawiye. They are you cousins, your beefs should be considered internal family matters.

Garaad, the issue of Somalis never having a
Centralized gov is also biting Somaliland as well. You’re going by colonial borders and you can’t even play nice with those who have historically lived in these borders. The Dhulos aren’t leaving their land and now a chunk of historic British Somaliland isnt controlled by your GoV.

The whole thing is a joke.

The Dhulos of Eastern Sool will be taught a lesson eventually. SL is here to stay whether Xamarawis like it or not.

 

[Zak12]

The narrative that a unified Somali polity existed prior to colonial intervention is

The Adal and Ajuran sultanates were unified entities that ruled northern Somaliweyn and southern Somaliweyn respectively.

Plenty of countries were formed very recently or weren't fully united until the last century. Germans and Italians never had a nation state until the 19th century for example. Nearly all of Africa consist of nations that never existed prior to the mid 20th century.

The Somali nation existed long before the modern Somali state. When the Majerteen sultans introduced themselves to the wider world, it was as the ''Emir of the Somalis'', and the territory was known as ''Bar Al-Somal ''the Land of the Somalis.

When Somalis in Ogaden and Harar needed support, they appealed to Somali sultanates, and they responded sending troops and arms to defend Harar. When colonial powers requested to use Somali lands to attack the Darawiish, the Majerteen refused and waged anti-colonial resistance. Similarly, when factions of Isaaqs in Berbera needed help to secure control over trade, the Majerteen sultans supported them as well.

This wasn’t some fragmented, regional identity it was a shared national and ethnic consciousness that extended from Hobyo to Kismaayo, from NFD to Harar.

The idea that Somali political identity began with modern federalism is revisionist. What we see in Puntland today is a modern construct, born partly out of Ethiopian interference and consolidated by leaders like Abdullahi Yusuf, whose legacy includes division and collaboration with foreign forces.

Historically, Somali political organization was defined by cross-regional ethnic unity, strategic cooperation, and mutual defense. That’s the legacy we should be proud of not narrow regionalism dressed up as nationalism.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

You must live in an alternate timeline

 

[Barkhadle1520]

The Adal and Ajuran sultanates were unified entities that ruled northern Somaliweyn and southern Somaliweyn respectively.

Plenty of countries were formed very recently or weren't fully united until the last century. Germans and Italians never had a nation state until the 19th century for example. Nearly all of Africa consist of nations that never existed prior to the mid 20th century.

Man said ajuran Fictional kingdom

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Because they also claim to have ruled Zeila. They claim that Arabs have ruled every successful port on the Somali peninsula. Foreign and both being Somali doesn’t make sense, even the Gulf Arabs who are all recognized as being different states call non Arabs and non Khaleeji as ‘Foreign’ and you a man whose so called nation is still under Somalia since you’re not recognized is calling other Somalis foreign.

Garaad, the issue of Somalis never having a
Centralized gov is also biting Somaliland as well. You’re going by colonial borders and you can’t even play nice with those who have historically lived in these borders. The Dhulos aren’t leaving their land and now a chunk of historic British Somaliland isnt controlled by your GoV.

The whole thing is a joke.

Lmao stop making up stuff never has a single Banadiri claimed that, they claim they founded southern cities and educated southern lamagodles

 

[novanova]

The Adal and Ajuran sultanates were unified entities that ruled northern Somaliweyn and southern Somaliweyn respectively.

The Somali nation existed long before the modern Somali state. When the Majerteen sultans introduced themselves to the wider world, it was as the ''Emir of the Somalis'', and the territory was known as ''Bar Al-Somal ''the Land of the Somalis.

When Somalis in Ogaden and Harar needed support, they appealed to Somali sultanates, and they responded sending troops and arms to defend Harar. When colonial powers requested to use Somali lands to attack the Darawiish, the Majerteen refused and waged anti-colonial resistance. Similarly, when factions of Isaaqs in Berbera needed help to secure control over trade, the Majerteen sultans supported them as well.

This wasn’t some fragmented, regional identity it was a shared national and ethnic consciousness that extended from Hobyo to Kismaayo, from NFD to Harar.

The idea that Somali political identity began with modern federalism is revisionist. What we see in Puntland today is a modern construct, born partly out of Ethiopian interference and consolidated by leaders like Abdullahi Yusuf, whose legacy includes division and collaboration with foreign forces.

Historically, Somali political organization was defined by cross-regional ethnic unity, strategic cooperation, and mutual defense. That’s the legacy we should be proud of not narrow regionalism dressed up as nationalism.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Never seen them claim SL history. They generally are super obsessed about Banadir. If they ever claimed Adal or Ifat or any of the ancient antiquity ports like Zeila & Berbera. Landers would put them in their place & would not need to beg other Somalis to help defend ourselves.

Lastly these people are 40% Somali which derives from Raxanweyn & Hawiye. They are you cousins, your beefs should be considered internal family matters.

The Dhulos of Eastern Sool will be taught a lesson eventually. SL is here to stay whether Xamarawis like it or not.

Even in case of an union SL will always remain, we fought for it and they know they cant take that from us

 

[novanova]

Even in case of an union SL will always remain, we fought for it and they know they cant take that from us

Who’s we?

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Who’s we?

Reer Shk isaaq

 

[Zak12]

Man said ajuran Fictional kingdom

It was real sxb. Idiliina, step a side, and shimbris and others have all talked about it extensively.

You can say that the name "Ajuran" isn't accurate (neither is Adal to be honest) but there very much was a state that ruled over most of koonfur with Mogadishu as its capital.

It's not an assertion, its documented that there was a large polity with Mogadishu as it's center. People visited the area and described it in detail.

@Garaad Awal They called the interior Machida/Mogadishu as well and it was seen as the northern most interior extant of it near the river and was seen as powerful. Machida is how the Abyssinians used to pronounce Mogadishu

They connected Mogadishu the capital city to a wider country and to the interior, various medieval authors mentioned it with production of the riverrines which produced grains, fruits and livestock.

I think we should treat Ajuuran/Mogadishu as more of a footholder name for it. Kinda like we do it with Adal , because the state was not called that, it was called Bar Sa'Adin and the Eastern horn Bari-Makhir was called Bar Khazain.

Same people calling the northern polity Adal will have you believe the polity in the south was called Ajan. Adal is Awdal which was the name for Zayla and its surounding hinterland which Europeans applied to the whole state and Ajan was Ajam the Arabic name for non-arab speakers.

 

[Angelina]

Never seen them claim SL history. They generally are super obsessed about Banadir. If they ever claimed Adal or Ifat or any of the ancient antiquity ports like Zeila & Berbera. Landers would put them in their place & would not need to beg other Somalis to help defend ourselves.

Lastly these people are 40% Somali which derives from Raxanweyn & Hawiye. They are you cousins, your beefs should be considered internal family matters.

The Dhulos of Eastern Sool will be taught a lesson eventually. SL is here to stay whether Xamarawis like it or not.

Thanks for proving my point. The only way you can have a nation state is by teaching people a lesson to force them to live nicely via colonial borders. Somalis were never united is something you parrot yet you’re forcing a fake unity using might. Even you know how precarious the statehood of SL is.

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[Barkhadle1520]

It was real sxb. Idiliina, step a side, and shimbris and others have all talked about it extensively.

You can say that the name "Ajuran" isn't accurate (neither is Adal to be honest) but there very much was a state that ruled over most of koonfur with Mogadishu as its capital.

Mans talking about these people like theyre prophets

Nio are you guys retarded ? Do you just see some fob tiktoks with "ajuran boqortoyo bower" and never question it ?

I challenge you to bring me one primary source of this Ajuran kingdom or Ajuran as a whole before the 19th century, I will personally paypal you 5$ if you find it

Also Ajan has nothing to do with Ajuran

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

I won’t post the TikTok since I don’t want the girl to be trolled or mistreated. So I was scrolling through TikTok and I saw something that mildly irritated me. I saw a Banadiri girl saying that Somali is a fake ethnicity that only came about via colonialism. Unfortunately, I’ve been seeing some ethnic Somalis co-signing it via hatred of their fellow Somalis especially the ones that want independence. She tried to say we had various different haplogroups saying T and EV-whatever I don’t care for haplogroups but that clearly isn’t the case since we only seem to have two different haplogroups and even then we are probably the most homogeneous ethnic group on earth. Our autosomal is incredibly connected.

It’s crazy how uneducated Somalis are of our history. The Somalis were a nation before we were ever a state and that’s apparent even when foreigners came to our shores decades before colonialism. Why did Burton call us the Somalis well before 1880? Why did the people he meet call themselves Somalis well before we ever became a country or a state?

I have no issues with our Banadiri mixed brothers and sisters. They have contributed a lot to the Southern Somali coast, but undermining our ethnicity and trying to play divide and conquer isn’t doing them any favors.

I say this not out of frustration towards that community since they are a small minority and on average lovely people, but the fact that Somali tribalism has led to this discourse and due to Siyad’s Barre’s regime over emphasizing our Nomadic roots and not the traders amongst us or the city dwellers. Also ignorance plays a big role. I have older relatives who are of an ethnic Somali background saying ‘no one knows where Somalis come from we could be of different origins’ or the boomers who’ve been fed a steady diet of how all Af Maxaa tiri Somalis were just desert dwelling nomads in the interior so now they too stupidly believe that Xamar was ruled by Banadiris.

Ethnicities are not nations. Somali ethnicity was not created by colonialism obviously but your point is also wrong.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Ethnicities are not nations.

View attachment 364776

To be honest Berbers are not a single identity or ethnicity, you cant tell me a kutami is the same as a sanhaja, same for many others on the list like nilotes

 

[Angelina]

Ethnicities are not nations.

View attachment 364776

I’ve made that clear that Somalis are an ethnicity. When I mentioned nation I meant in terms of a group of people who share an ethnicity and not via nationhood.

The word nation has varying meanings, that should be known to English speakers. A nation also means people of common descent and doesn’t necessarily only mean statehood and nationhood.

Hence why I said, the Somalis were a nation but never a statehood. That statement alone should have been obvious what I am getting at.

 

[Zak12]

Mans talking about these people like theyre prophets

Nio are you guys retarded ? Do you just see some fob tiktoks with "ajuran boqortoyo bower" and never question it ?

I challenge you to bring me one primary source of this Ajuran kingdom or Ajuran as a whole before the 19th century, I will personally paypal you 5$ if you find it

Also Ajan has nothing to do with Ajuran

Primary sources are limited but they exist. Its the oral history that should be paid attention. Many Somali clans across the south all say a sultanate ruled them and they attribute the ruins to the Ajuran.

Just going to dump all the Ajuran related texts I have

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[Barkhadle1520]

Primary sources are limited but they exist. Its the oral history that should be paid attention. Many Somali clans across the south all say a sultanate ruled them and they attribute the ruins to the Ajuran.

Masha Allah Oral history Empire

I even heard from some nomads that Ajuran conquered China! Wee ilbaxeen reer ajuran