How tribalism is being used to undermine our shared ethnicity.

[DR OSMAN]

I am a woman. Most modern moryaans believe that women don’t have a clan and if a man from my clan abuses me, they will cover for him.

Since you want to talk about the real cultural Moryaanimo of the Somalis, let’s both be honest

I knew how they used to joke around after maghrib, after the daily hustle, schemes dee and they liked me cause one I was diaspora and not many existed then plus I possibly was a mashruc as they did tell me once u go back to Australia cut out all that western or islamic naanaabnimo, keep focused on money, hanti, knowledge and they made it clear only deal with anyone as maxaa ii soo kordhin mentality.

I do remember them saying if U get married, make sure she is intelligent or libaxadi type not these maskin types or dependent types waa culays they said and as a libaxad type they said u can can both grow the game.

The libaxad types they mean is like Sheba of old, carawelo of old, etc. these modern women r like children to them not equals. They said just buy em as sex tourist, focus on the real goals(power, money, knowledge).

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Because they’re peddling the idea that we’re are a group of people of various origins and mixed ethnicities hence any historical achievement regardless of where in the Somali peninsula cannot be attributed to Somalis. It’s an act if erasure.

Some people are allowed to believe that. Same way some people can believe in a greater Somalia.

Both are irrational but one form of irrationality is tolerated and the other requires criticism.

But I think you know there might be a larger point of Clans acting like ethnicities. This is probably the future trend. Every clan is it's own ethnicity. Some are tied to different nations (Somaliland), some have their own regional states (Puntland, Jubbaland) or cities (Mogadishu) and this political seperation will speed up the process of clan as ethnicities. The new ethnicities/ethnic states will fight over claiming past acheivements and this already happens anyway.

4.5 political system, Hawiye Darood FGS duopoly are also non-regional driving forces of creating new ethnicities. I think clan as ethnicity is really gaining steam everything going in its favour.

 

[Angelina]

Some people are allowed to believe that. Same way some people can believe in a greater Somalia.

Both are irrational but one form of irrationality is tolerated and the other requires criticism.

But I think you know there might be a larger point of Clans acting like ethnicities. This is probably the future trend. Every clan is it's own ethnicity. Some are tied to different nations (Somaliland), some have their own regional states (Puntland, Jubbaland) or cities (Mogadishu) and this political seperation will speed up the process of clan as ethnicities. The new ethnicities/ethnic states will fight over claiming past acheivements and this already happens anyway.

4.5 political system, Hawiye Darood FGS duopoly are also non-regional driving forces of creating new ethnicities. I think clan as ethnicity is really gaining steam everything going in its favour.

It can’t grow steam simply because you undermine your own governess. The idea of SL is for Northern Somalis but if you try and switch up the idea of clan as ethnicities you’ve now forced an ethnic enclave on Samaroons, some other dir groups and Dhulos and Warsenglis.

Also, clan as ethnicities can’t work since Somalis also war each other on a sub clan level. So what is going to happen tomorrow when sub clans grow exponentially? Sub clans as an ethnicity? If you set a precedent where a clan = nation, what happens when a sub-clan grows powerful enough to demand autonomy? Does a new "ethnic" identity suddenly emerge?
It will forever be a dividing game and that’s what makes people who like to peddle such divisions as being low IQ. Sub clans warring each other isn’t even new in SL which is why the premise is dangerous.

Deep down as an Isaaq, you see SL as an Isaaq project, I could be wrong about you, but growing up, I’d alway hear them refer to warsenglis and Dhulos as being non Landers and that’s why things have combusted recently and why no sane Dhulo would want to remain under Somaliland. Unfortunately, Somalis cannot accept clan dominance, therefore in order for a nationhood to survive within its current borders, an idea more powerful than clan has to emerge.

In order for a nation state to work clan has to be secondary, if not near enough last. Look at Gulf states? They have managed to find a way in which clan isn’t important any more. Someone in Saudi can have the same qabil as someone in Qatar. Half of Omanis share the same tribe as their neighbors with a good % of their clan in Yemen as well. People don’t even live in their Deegaan anymore and follow the money or big city ect despite 80 yrs ago having epic skirmishes.

But a lamagoodle is a lamagoodle whether they’re from North, South, East or West and it’s sad.

 

[Idilinaa]

Haye lets see what macalimad says

There was unified kingdom/sultanate that covered parts of the southern Somali coast with large parts of the interior.

Went through it here:

EU5 Horn of Africa

So there is a fifth installment of a super popular strategy game called Europa Universalis releasing soon and this is their planned depiction of the political and cultural environment during the 14th century in the horn. What are your thoughts on how realistic this is...

www.somalispot.com

But there was no Ajuuran sultanate per say, the name ''Ajuuran'' was a local nickname for taxing state admins not a name for a state.

You can tell they are describing the exact same set up as Bar'Sa Din/Awdal where the leaders would tax and cordinated production because they remember a political organization that stretched as far as Zeila.

Wether you call it Mogadishu sultanate or Ajuuran is trivial as they could be viewed as placeholder names.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

It can’t grow steam simply because you undermine your own governess. The idea of SL is for Northern Somalis but if you try and switch up the idea of clan as ethnicities you’ve now forced an ethnic enclave on Samaroons, some other dir groups and Dhulos and Warsenglis.

Also, clan as ethnicities can’t work since Somalis also war each other on a sub clan level. So what is going to happen tomorrow when sub clans grow exponentially? Sub clans as an ethnicity? It will forever be a dividing game and that’s what makes people who like to peddle such divisions as being low IQ.

Deep down as an Isaaq, you see SL as a Isaaq project and that’s why things have combusted recently and why no sane Dhulo would want to call themselves Somalilanders.

In order for a nation state to work clan has to be secondary if not near enough last. Look at Gulf states? They have managed to find a way in which clan isn’t important any more. People don’t even live in their Deegaan anymore and follow the money or big city ect despite 80 yrs ago having epic skirmishes.

But a lamagoodle is a lamagoodle whether they’re from North, South, East or West and it’s sad.

FGS/Federal somali repubic is an attempt to balance hawiye darood power. It's an attempt to reconcile these two ethnicities. Clan is central to this project in terms of regional state allocations, presidencies etc. Hasn't succeeded due to some problems.

This ethnic project (externally financed and sustained) has spilled over into Somaliland's eastern borders.

I don't really see what point you are making. Ethnic divisions and power sharing are the core of this Federal Somali republic and the core of Somaliland but they cater to do different ethnicities.

You are just mislabelling Somalia as an Somali project when it is really a project for Hawiye/Darood ethnicities and thats how it was conceived and it was hoped by letting them dominate the project it would create a new kind of ethnic domination that would settle the civil war.

I don't see anything about Dir, Rahanweyn, Isaaq here. I see Somalia, Hawiye Darood.

Somalia = failed Hawiye/Darood ethnicity power sharing project.

The State Of Somalia’s Political Settlement | Saxafi Media

As the State of Somalia grapples with its complex political landscape, the age-old concept of the "political settlement" has never been more critical.

saxafimedia.com

 

[Idilinaa]

People on this site are clearly going through a daily identity crisis with these same recycled threads.

They’ve got all this time to waste on endless debates just to drag others down with them. If something hits a nerve, log off and do something productive.

Throwing insults and constantly talking down to other Somalis or twisting narratives to frame them negatively isn’t going to improve your life. Telling yourself comforting lies just to feel good about your group won't change reality either.

Worse still, building insular cliques and echo chambers doesn't just stunt your own growth while you stay stuck, the broader Somali collective moves forward, progressing and collaborating.

Honestly, this kind of behavior reminds me of some Kenyans online: always sabotaging each other, then barking at Somalis who actually see them as neighbors and lend them a hand.

 

[Angelina]

FGS/Federal somali repubic is an attempt to balance hawiye darood power. It's an attempt to reconcile these two ethnicities. Clan is central to this project in terms of regional state allocations, presidencies etc. Hasn't succeeded due to some problems.

This ethnic project (externally financed and sustained) has spilled over into Somaliland's eastern borders.

I don't really see what point you are making. Ethnic divisions and power sharing are the core of this Federal Somali republic and the core of Somaliland but they cater to do different ethnicities.

You are just mislabelling Somalia as an Somali project when it is really a project for Hawiye/Darood ethnicities and thats how it was conceived and it was hoped by letting them dominate the project it would create a new kind of ethnic domination that would settle the civil war.

View attachment 364794


I don't see anything about Dir, Rahanweyn, Isaaq here. I see Somalia, Hawiye Darood.

Somalia = failed Hawiye/Darood ethnicity power sharing project.

The State Of Somalia’s Political Settlement | Saxafi Media

As the State of Somalia grapples with its complex political landscape, the age-old concept of the "political settlement" has never been more critical.

saxafimedia.com

We can agree on that, but you are advocating for the same thing in SL. They are going down that path but it isn’t even a shared thing, but Isaaq dominance which has led to full blown war with Dhulos and you had to subdue Gadabursi in the 90s.

Unfortunately, Somalia from its inception was based on Pastorial clans. When we were united it was Isaaq, Dir, Hawiye and Darood leading the way with Af May languages even being banned on state radios in the early 60s. It was the dominance of major Nomadic Af Maxaa clans from the very beginning

I don’t deny this- never have, but the hypocrisy is that SL is going down that road but with a single tribal entity.

You are not going to see me defend the South either. It’s all the same to me at the end of the day, but you need to think critically here rather than emotionally.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

We can agree on that, but you are advocating for the same thing in SL. They are going down that path but it isn’t even a shared thing, but Isaaq dominance which has led to full blown war with Dhulos and you had to subdue Gadabursi in the 90s.

Unfortunately, Somalia from its inception was based on Pastorial clans. When we were united it was Isaaq, Dir, Hawiye and Darood leading the way with Af May languages even being banned on state radios in the early 60s. It was the dominance of major Nomadic Af Maxaa clans from the very beginning

I don’t deny this- never have, but the hypocrisy is that SL is going down that road but with a single tribal entity.

You are not going to see me defend the South either. It’s all the same to me at the end of the day, but you need to think critically here rather than emotionally.

It can’t grow steam simply because you undermine your own governess.

You are clearly defending the hawiye darood project - this sentence here says everything.

You are presenting the Hawiye/Darood ethnic project as a Somali project that includes or should include Somaliland. You have picked a side because it has the fake illusion of being a Somali project but you can't trick many people with that. Nice try though. Even the UNSOM political adivors clearly designate it a Hawiye/Darood project. It failed because of Hawiye and Darood no one else stop looking for scapegoats.

 

[Angelina]

You are presenting the Hawiye/Darood ethnic project as a Somali project that includes or should include Somaliland. You have picked a side because it has the fake illusion of being a Somali project but you can't trick many people with that.

I really haven’t as it’s currently a failing state and needs huge adjustments.

I am using your arguments and issues with Somalia against you. Everything you accuse Somalia of SL is literally doing it. Sub clan wars, disgruntled minorities that have turned into full blown wars ect. Overemphasis on clan ect.

Hawiye and Daroods aren’t a separate ethnicity. They’re Somali. If you think Hawiye and Daroods are separate, so are Isaaq and Dhulos who are Darood and so are the Dir Gadursi. So now you’re telling me you have 4 ethnic groups in SL but you want to create a narrative of SL being an ethnic enslave which will be based on what Isaaq superiority? In what way is that rational?

At least Garad Awal whilst unhinged is honest- he advocates to to Subject Dhulos and put them in their place because that’s honestly the only way if you want to continue with your fantasy and how are you any better than Somalia? You want the state of Somalia to give you freedom but you’ll force people you deem as a different ethnicity to have to stay put under your rulership so that they can abide by British borders?

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

You are clearly defending the hawiye darood project - this sentence here says everything.

You are presenting the Hawiye/Darood ethnic project as a Somali project that includes or should include Somaliland. You have picked a side because it has the fake illusion of being a Somali project but you can't trick many people with that. Nice try though. Even the UNSOM political adivors clearly designate it a Hawiye/Darood project. It failed because of Hawiye and Darood no one else stop looking for scapegoats.

It’s not like all daaroods or Hawiyes are eating equally under the FGS only certain subclans amongst them you been on this forum long enough to realize terms like daarood or hawiye don’t really exist politically or have a common interest

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

I really haven’t as it’s currently a failing state and needs huge adjustments.

I am using your arguments and issues with Somalia against you. Everything you accuse Somalia of SL is literally doing it. Sub clan wars, disgruntled minorities that have turned into full blown wars ect. Overemphasis on clan ect.

Hawiye and Daroods aren’t a separate ethnicity. They’re Somali. If you think Hawiye and Daroods are separate, so are Isaaq and Dhulos who are Darood and so are the Dir Gadursi. So now you’re telling me you have 4 ethnic groups in SL but you want to create a narrative of SL being an ethnic enslave which will be based on what Isaaq superiority? In what way is that rational?

At least Garad Awal whilst unhinged is honest- he advocates to to Subject Dhulos and put them in their place because that’s honestly the only way if you want to continue with your fantasy and how are you any better than Somalia? You want the state of Somalia to give you freedom but you’ll force people you deem as a different ethnicity to have to stay put under your rulership so that they can abide by British borders?

The only instability Somaliland faces is political spill over from failed Somalia. Otherwise its' fine.

Hawiye/Darood domination politics which itself is not self-sustaining (needs finance and military intervention) has found its way to Somaliland's eastern border and your own dysfunction + SL lack of international recognition becomes the means for you to act like everything is equal. It obviously isn't

Yes you need to start over from scratch completley but it won't include Somaliland.

 

[Angelina]

It’s not like all daaroods or Hawiyes are eating equally under the FGS only certain subclans amongst them you been on this forum long enough to realize terms like daarood or hawiye don’t really exist politically or have a common interest

That is unfortunately Somalis for you. That poster should know that an Ogaden does not have the same political motivations as a Dhulo and a Dhulo has nothing to do with a Marahan and the list continues. Even in SL there have been various skirmishes between HY and the rest ect.

Somalis are incredibly complicated and not in a good way, but everything they accuse Somalia of we are seeing it in 4K in SL because the Somali pastoral nomadic way is engrained in us all hence why you have tension between sub clans and major clans not being able to live as a minority in lands in which another clan dominates.

Furthermore, even in South Somalia the issues that was preventing peace wasn’t even tribalism- Southerners are no more tribalist than Northerners- they had religious fanatics running around being founded by outside actors.

The failure and the chaos they accuse the capital of isn’t even tribal in nature at all.

 

[Angelina]

The only instability Somaliland faces is political spill over from failed Somalia. Otherwise its' fine.

Hawiye/Darood domination politics which itself is not self-sustaining (needs finance and military intervention) has found its way to Somaliland's eastern border and your own dysfunction + SL lack of international recognition becomes the means for you to act like everything is equal. It obviously isn't

Yes you need to start over from scratch completley but it won't include Somaliland.

That’s a lie and you know it. Isaaqs dominates SL and you share your land with Daroods as well as well as Dirs. You’re not being rational right now.

What has been found in SL’s eastern borders is your own Darood citizens or are they excluded in your one clan enclave?

Somalias biggest threat has been for the last 15 yrs religious fanatics. Clan has actually been secondary when it comes to the blood shed. It wasn’t clan politics that has caused places to be blown up. We all know this.

 

[sh-89]

You must live in an alternate timeline

Al shabaab teaches their youth to hate oromo or amharic. Its a tactic they use. Somalis figured out to make the enemy external over a tribe down the block alhamdulilah. Its an improvement but anytime you oromo its code for "gaal" in Shabaab language. Thats how they speak. Imo Shabaab might be able to replace qabilism when the boomers go. I knew about family of three siblings older, one hated other black people, the other brother hated non-muslim whites and the sister hated other somali tribes. Wa yaab. Same family.

 

[DR OSMAN]

It’s not like all daaroods or Hawiyes are eating equally under the FGS only certain subclans amongst them you been on this forum long enough to realize terms like daarood or hawiye don’t really exist politically or have a common interest

Darod and Hawiye are known to have common interest with their respective clans it's called security alliance as all hawiye when the shit hits the fan way isracan like USC, Courts, etc. It's Darods who do not have common security pact but Hartis always did and JL also recently since 2013.

As for when things r business as usual status, then every clan pursues their own personal n clan interest.

Darod is only different in the respect they don't unite even on a shared common enemy called Irir which is a qadiyad not siyasad isbadelayo anytime soon and has been dusted down since Carta till now over 25 years as Plan B model for Hawiye and Isaaq if they don't secure their Plan A centralism and secession.

It's this window of opporthnity that darod should of capitalized as irir its very tense between hags n isaaq and fractured(IOG is keeping it alive on shared goals of darod elimination thru an irir federated model).

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

That’s a lie and you know it. Isaaqs dominates SL and you share your land with Daroods as well as well as Dirs. You’re not being rational right now.

What has been found in SL’s eastern borders is your own Darood citizens or are they excluded in your one clan enclave?

No one gets extra votes if they are isaaq.
Not only isaaq are allowed to be president.

This is just projection from failed Somalia.

Darood are citizens with an equal vote to anyone else in Somaliland. They are not going to have extra rights like in Somalia (like rotating president) so they are in a limbo right now until reality reassert itself.

You conveniently want to forget SL doens't have state allocations or rotating presidencies. It has a democratic vote that isn't faked or frauded so people accept it.

 

[sh-89]

That’s a lie and you know it. Isaaqs dominates SL and you share your land with Daroods as well as well as Dirs. You’re not being rational right now.

What has been found in SL’s eastern borders is your own Darood citizens or are they excluded in your one clan enclave?

Somalias biggest threat has been for the last 15 yrs religious fanatics. Clan has actually been secondary when it comes to the blood shed. It wasn’t clan politics that has caused places to be blown up. We all know this.

Isaaq are the most tribal yet act like they aren't with other Somalis. Imo they have the most self hating tribes who are very docile. I have no idea why they pretend to be aggressive. Just look at the UK and how they get treated with this self loathing. I have no idea why they hurt their own people. They seem to be obsessed with the South while HY don't care. I came across a few them and now realized how matriarchal their community are. Their women refuse to tolerate other Somali women in the South. They are also fanatical and bootyclap for Ethiopians who see most Somalis as basket cases who want to be "arab." Thats their slur for us. Ethiopians despise us and use Somali as a slur. I always liked Eritreans. Good people.

 

[Angelina]

No one gets extra votes if they are isaaq.
Not only isaaq are allowed to be president.

This is just projection from failed Somalia.

Darood are citizens with an equal vote to anyone else in Somaliland. They are not going to have extra rights like in Somalia (like rotating president) so they are in a limbo right now until reality reassert itself.

You conveniently want to forget SL doens't have state allocations or rotating presidencies. It has a democratic vote that isn't faked or frauded so people accept it.

Loool, If SL is so great for Daroods why have they created the SSC in your own colonial borders? Tell me, what are you going to do? Fight then again? Push them out of the land? They now have their own annexed part now so instead of focusing on Failed Somalia focus on how SL which hasn’t even been recognized have already lost a chunk of their land.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Loool, If SL is so great for Daroods why have they created the SSC in your own colonial borders? Tell me, what are you going to do? Fight then again? Push them out of the land? They now have their own annexed part now so instead of focusing on Failed Somalia focus on how SL which hasn’t even been recognized have already lost a chunk of their land.

There is an international project for Hawiye/Darood ethnicity that was being heavily financed and supported by the international community more than Somaliland was.

Very simple really.

 

[sh-89]

No one gets extra votes if they are isaaq.
Not only isaaq are allowed to be president.

This is just projection from failed Somalia.

Darood are citizens with an equal vote to anyone else in Somaliland. They are not going to have extra rights like in Somalia (like rotating president) so they are in a limbo right now until reality reassert itself.

You conveniently want to forget SL doens't have state allocations or rotating presidencies. It has a democratic vote that isn't faked or frauded so people accept it.

Isaaq have a superiority and inferiority complex at the same damn time. They want unity in the diaspora but hate us in E.A. Why are they in our spaces? The title of this forum even clearly says SOMALISPOT. Not SOMALILANDSPOT. I have seen us go out of our way to mix with them. Uff. Everytime I hear their British accents. Even outside of Somalia they dont accomplish shit. They shit on Ilhan but where is their Ilhan? Where is their influence? I no longer tolerate their mental illness.