Honest Question: How can Slanders convince our neighbours to support independence?

[El padrone]

Give us awdal and the patriotic parts of Khaatoom and we can find a deal.

another cuqdad filled gadabuursi!
how does it feel when a small marginalized clan like madhibaan, who are socialy, politically and economically disadvantaged than gadabuursi holding it together and not letting inferiority complex cloud their hope and optimistic future!

The land cant be moved so maybe wanlaweynists should move to xamar

 

[El padrone]

If they haven't figured it out in the past 25 years then it probably won't happen.

Somaliland should just give up and work with the South to build a country that also works for them.

If they wait until the new constitution is settled; they'll have no choice but to accept the rules set out for them by others.

If they are smart they'll use this whole ictiraaf bs as a tactic in the negotiations with Xamar for more autonomous powers as a state.

lmao , how can they afford that when they cannot even manage their resources to withhold a drought ?

acah1: Yall must be kiddinh right? Kenya, ethiopia, and biggest economies in the developing world have problems too and draughts affects them all equally! even ethiopia with their infamous famine and food shortage gets reaources to send satelites in orbit!

 

[Mokillem]

But there has been no slaughterhouse. Since the 90s it has been a place where people of any tribe can live and work. I'd say the press is pretty free, and the 3 party system creates real competition. The situation in the east is a difficulty, and I think the last people want is to replicate a version of what happened to us; but if you look at the politics of the country you see all the minority tribes are bought of, and when it comes to complicated land issues and conflicts the government often takes the side of the minority or kicks the issue into the long grass.

Walaal, I wouldn't go so far as to say that we have strong institutions, but we have institutions. The problem of tribe is obvious, but it is a shared one, and I think it can only be helped not by delusional anti-tribalism, but by bringing it into the open; and in a way our system of party as effective tribal proxy kind of does that.

The famine is a crime of the government, and it is because there is no attention to the basic issues of drought prevention and food security. This can be done on a very low budget and it is a great shame on all who had responsibility for it. As an Issaq person I do not favour Somaliland because I think my lot are any better or worse; I just think we should always try to be governed by the closest unit to us that is capable of exercising control over the territory, and there is real hope Somaliland can be that.

Prosperity isn't an excuse for independence, puntland has prospered but that doesn't mean it gets independence. The Press isn't free , please do not fall under the propaganda of the state.Nearly all somali regions do not have freedom of press.Somaliland is no different, it only allows media which is pro-Somaliland. Any criticisms of the government isnt allowed and pro unionists are imprisoned. Also they have blocked people from looking at some media sites.

The 3 party system is a great attempt but it renders any chance of non majority Isaaq party to be impossible, thus marginalising tribes that are
not part of the majority.


Ill assume you are young just like me. However I think you forgot the samaroon people being forcefully attacked by the Isaaq militias who raided the Somali Government weapons vault.They then also went out to occupy Las Caanod , a non-Isaaq city, by force.Somaliland isn't innocent they have killed many people in the civil war however they have propagandised the somali pain to focus only on the previous dictatorial regime.

Anti Tribalism, lmao, how can you state that? will you claim "somali-land-nimo" or something ? The very essence of Somaliland is tribalism .If it wasn't it would support a regional somali power.However one tribe believes they will simply be marginalised and thus want to monopolize power within the Somaliland region.

Your last paragraph is basically not an excuse, you are describing federalism.

Btw I'm from the Somaliland Area , ( maakhir).

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

I wanted to reach out and try to find out the answer to this question. Of course there are issues in the east, but let's just assume an arrangement was worked out where even something akin to Khatumo remained in Somalia, what is the problem? I personally know that I love to be able to visit a booming Hamar, and I sometimes think that people from the south don't realise that an independent Somaliland would actually be great for them. Leave aside all tribal issues for now, what would it take for you guys to accept SL?

I want isaaq to stay within the unity

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

It is easier for me to recognize Masailand instead of Isaaq.

 

[Menelik III]

I think the reason why south Somalia is so afraid of somliland independence is because of a few things.

1. Greater Somalia will finally end.

2. Somaliland will be "escaping" the fate of the south by seceeding. Essentially they see Somaliland leaving their troubled past while Somalia will have to continue to suffer for many more years.

3. Somaliland will prosper to become the dominant Somali inhabited country. They will have the trust of all regional countries. Somliland will benefit tremendously from the export import sector of Ethiopia, with many roads, railways, and trade developing.

Somalians feel as though there little brother is surpassing them so they feel very hesitant and hurt by Somaliland wanting independence. They would rather stay in chaos forever than have both regions prosper under two different countries.

These are my views on the situation.

 

[Mokillem]

acah1: Yall must be kiddinh right? Kenya, ethiopia, and biggest economies in the developing world have problems too and draughts affects them all equally! even ethiopia with their infamous famine and food shortage gets reaources to send satelites in orbit!

Your argument is flawed, Ethiopia is a corrupt shit hole.Somaliland on the other hand claims to have institutions to prevent this, also compare the size of Ethiopia to Somaliland

 

[Adam Isaaq]

Prosperity isn't an excuse for independence, puntland has prospered but that doesn't mean it gets independence. The Press isn't free , please do not fall under the propaganda of the state.Nearly all somali regions do not have freedom of press.Somaliland is no different, it only allows media which is pro-Somaliland. Any criticisms of the government isnt allowed and pro unionists are imprisoned. Also they have blocked people from looking at some media sites.

The 3 party system is a great attempt but it renders any chance of non majority Isaaq party to be impossible, thus marginalising tribes that are
not part of the majority.


Ill assume you are young just like me. However I think you forgot the samaroon people being forcefully attacked by the Isaaq militias who raided the Somali Government weapons vault.They then also went out to occupy Las Caanod , a non-Isaaq city, by force.Somaliland isn't innocent they have killed many people in the civil war however they have propagandised the somali pain to focus only on the previous dictatorial regime.

Anti Tribalism, lmao, how can you state that? will you claim "somali-land-nimo" or something ? The very essence of Somaliland is tribalism .If it wasn't it would support a regional somali power.However one tribe believes they will simply be marginalised and thus want to monopolize power within the Somaliland region.

Your last paragraph is basically not an excuse, you are describing federalism.

Btw I'm from the Somaliland Area , ( maakhir).

I know mistakes were made, but you have to concede that the SNM was the most civilized of forces. A worse lot would have commited atrocities that would have completely changed the tribal map of the region. I am proud of the SNM and at the same time I want to reach an understand with the Reer Woqooyi tribes that don't favour independence. I would even be happy to give up territory, as for me it's not about territory but the principal of preserving stability. The 3rd rail of Sonaliland politics and society is unionism, and I believe unionists should be able to express themselves. But we do have diversity of opinion, and genuinely open elections.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

I would say in reality an independent Somaliland would help pan-Somali goals. It would draw a line under the past. This is part of the reason why I think it is better for the Federal Government. I think you might even see in 2160 another attempt to give the whole United Somalia idea another go if we build up interdepency and political maturity.

In 2160 we are in our graves

 

[Mokillem]

I think the reason why south Somalia is so afraid of somliland independence is because of a few things.

1. Greater Somalia will finally end.

2. Somaliland will be "escaping" the fate of the south by seceeding. Essentially they see Somaliland leaving their troubled past while Somalia will have to continue to suffer for many more years.

3. Somaliland will prosper to become the dominant Somali inhabited country. They will have the trust of all regional countries. Somliland will benefit tremendously from the export import sector of Ethiopia, with many roads, railways, and trade developing.

Somalians feel as though there little brother is surpassing them so they feel very hesitant and hurt by Somaliland wanting independence. They would rather stay in chaos forever than have both regions prosper under two different countries.

These are my views on the situation.

What you really believe is that " Somaliland will secede , tensions will be increased by Ethiopia, Ethiopia will come in to "mediate"."

 

[Adam Isaaq]

In 2160 we are in our graves

Typo haha. 2060

 

[Adam Isaaq]

It is easier for me to recognize Masailand instead of Isaaq.

Even if you stand to gain?

 

[Xooshdheere]

I wanted to reach out and try to find out the answer to this question. Of course there are issues in the east, but let's just assume an arrangement was worked out where even something akin to Khatumo remained in Somalia, what is the problem? I personally know that I love to be able to visit a booming Hamar, and I sometimes think that people from the south don't realise that an independent Somaliland would actually be great for them. Leave aside all tribal issues for now, what would it take for you guys to accept SL?

The international community were not born yesterday. They know it's only one clan pushing this agenda for an independent state.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

Adam Isaaq,
Why do u want this disgusting disunity when we can reshape Somalia by making better powersharing deal?
The land should stay united.
Look at Ethiopia. 80 ethnic groups.


Our strength lies in unity.
I know if disunity occurs and sland gets recognition, and somehow in the future Ethiopia invades Somaliland, while South is a strong state in such situation, we wouldnt help our waqooyi brethren. We would mind our own business because we would think thats not our country thus it is not our problem. And vice versa could happen.

Disunity is dangerous!
We will come together in unity again Insha Allah.

 

[Mokillem]

I know mistakes were made, but you have to concede that the SNM was the most civilized of forces. A worse lot would have commited atrocities that would have completely changed the tribal map of the region. I am proud of the SNM and at the same time I want to reach an understand with the Reer Woqooyi tribes that don't favour independence. I would even be happy to give up territory, as for me it's not about territory but the principal of preserving stability. The 3rd rail of Sonaliland politics and society is unionism, and I believe unionists should be able to express themselves. But we do have diversity of opinion, and genuinely open elections.

This wont happen, SNM just like everyone else murdered and invaded people.How can we forgive Somaliland when they blame Somalia for the massacares of the Siaad Barre government? You don't have diversity of opinions saxib if you did why is Somaliland banning media sites and arresting journalists.Not only Unionist people, just people who criticize the government . I personally semi supported Somaliland then puntland back in my naïve years.However as I went pass the propaganda of the states I realized the truth of corruption and hypocritical acts.

P.S these are some links of Somaliland Media Suppression:
https://www.ifex.org/somalia/2009/09/24/nusoj_somaliland_report/
https://cpj.org/2017/06/somaliland-journalist-held-without-charge-for-aski.php
https://www.alleastafrica.com/2017/...ess-to-news-sites-raising-censorship-specter/
http://soljaorg.com/2017/04/25/high...ess-law-272004-implementation-and-adaptation/

 

[El padrone]

I'm sorry Saxib, you seem to have fallen under the "Somaliland delusional disorder" it can be defined as : the belief that Somaliland is a separate democratic state with strong institutions.

To begin , Somaliland is already becoming more and more authoritarian. Freedom of speech within Somaliland has been silenced which will eventually lead to a spiral of corruption and humanitarian abuses.The end result will simply be an attack against its marginalised citizens who are not supporting the government unconditionally.

Another failing institution within Somaliland and even somali weyn is the lack of management , why else did a large amount of "somalilanders" suffer from a famine in a country with one of the most arable lands throughout Somalia.

Finally, your statement that Somaliland wont turn into south sudan is inherently flawed. It has all the makings of a failed state:
Widespread corruption , lack of management , tribal tensions and old wounds. All it takes is one Daarod in the Maakhir or Khaatumo region to be killed and the region will flare into a wide spread rebellion. Funnily enough Somaliland government will simply do what Siaad did and bomb the areas into submission.

In conclusions, this Somaliland dream wont happen. If anything Somaliland will get worse , there is a corrupt inner circle within Somaliland trying to reap the greatest benefits it can from the Northerners. Unfortunately all they have to do is shout Qabil and the Isaaq people will happily follow them to the slaughter house.

Hold up waryaa! You are making stupid statements, first sland aint like the savage souths. if we wanted to be like yall we should have already went apeshit on each other and make the world headlines: 20,000 killed in xamar civil war, suicide bomb killed 100,000 in xamar, etc!

Fact check: countless daroods already killed in tribal clashes in sool in the hundreds if not thousands since 1991, mostly bw same sub clan affiliations. same in the west, still no bombs from sland gov.

our democratic institutions albeit still weak has been praised and aknowledged by the world and most pro democracy instutions in the world like the UN and western nations.

infact if u google sland u will see most respectable papers in the world favoring us and heaping orgasm inducing praise on Sland development and democracy! :siilaanyolaugh:

Sland isnt even close to s.sudan, the civil war in sudan killed and displaced millions, you cant say the same about sland since independency.
infact sland accomplished what s.sudan couldnt achieve with international recignition, tons of aid money and petrodollars and huge support from uncle sam!


Fact check: Sland usnt arable compared to Somalia and ethiopia. we have only two agricultural belts;, baki, dilla, wajaale and gabiley in waqooyi galbeed and awbarkhadle, ceerigaabo in the west. our total crop cultivation is 25% of our total annual food import! which i think is impressive considering the lack of commercial farms, input and knowledge-how, little gov assistance of our agriculture industry.

Also yall forgeting our end game isnt only recognition! :siilaanyosmile:

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

Even if you stand to gain?

Brother, the only reason we wont recognize sland is because we know its a clan enclave.
Only a blind cannot see that.
The whites are aware of this. The whole world knows it.

Instead of focussing clanbased disunity, lets focuss on how to make our country great again in such a way where bantu somali and madhibaan can become presidents.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

Actually if recognition comes in Waqooyi without the blessing of Hawiye. Then we will sent killers there who does not fear death.
And we will make waqooyi into hell. Dhulbahante already hates isaaq. They wouldnt mind to shelder hg, marexaan and ogaden battlehardened killers specialized in bomb making and ambushes. There is also Mujahid Wabar and his men. Its very explosive situation.
South Sudan would appear like heaven compared to sland if recognition comes without south blessing.


But iam sure the wise leaders of sland are aware of this. Thats why they want wadahadal.

:siilaanyosmile:

 

[El padrone]

I want isaaq to stay within the unity

Somalia: I want isaaq to stay within the unity!
Sland: iga ilaali!

#StoryOfSlandLife.

 

[Mokillem]

Hold up waryaa! You are making stupid statements, first sland aint like the savage souths. if we wanted to be like yall we should have already went apeshit on each other and make the world headlines: 20,000 killed in xamar civil war, suicide bomb killed 100,000 in xamar, etc!

Fact check: countless daroods already killed in tribal clashes in sool in the hundreds if not thousands since 1991, mostly bw same sub clan affiliations. same in the west, still no bombs from sland gov.

our democratic institutions albeit still weak has been praised and aknowledged by the world and most pro democracy instutions in the world like the UN and western nations.

infact if u google sland u will see most respectable papers in the world favoring us and heaping orgasm inducing praise on Sland development and democracy! :siilaanyolaugh:

Sland isnt even close to s.sudan, the civil war in sudan killed and displaced millions, you cant say the same about sland since independency.
infact sland accomplished what s.sudan couldnt achieve with international recignition, tons of aid money and petrodollars and huge support from uncle sam!


Fact check: Sland usnt arable compared to Somalia and ethiopia. we have only two agricultural belts;, baki, dilla, wajaale and gabiley in waqooyi galbeed and awbarkhadle, ceerigaabo in the west. our total crop cultivation is 25% of our total annual food import! which i think is impressive considering the lack of commercial farms, input and knowledge-how, little gov assistance of our agriculture industry.

Also yall forgeting our end game isnt only recognition! :siilaanyosmile:

A lot of Straw man argument walal .
Your democratic institutions are weak but have been praised because of the low bar set by Somalia and East Africa.I didn't say Sland is s.sudan I said it will result in s.sudan assuming current borders are maintained.

I'm pretty sure if the Somaliland government hired more botanists and agricultural scientists it could have a higher rate of arability rate.Also Ethiopia supplies a lot of Somaliland thus causing lack of investment in the agricultural sector.

your end game? don't tell me you wanna go on a military expedition
:siilaanyolaugh: