Gulf Arabs fabricating Somali history for political reasons, fight back.

[Galool]

Yeah but the more i think about it the more i realize it's an insane comparison to make. The other three great powers are rome, persia, and china, . The smallest of these three great empires was persia and they had over 10 million people. That's over 10 times aksums pouplation and that's assuming the pouplation was actually 1 million people. There's also the fact that their territory was incredibly small. In comparison to the other 3 especially when you factor in most of souther arabia is just uninhabitable desert. I dont even want to get into the fact that the sheer amount of surving artifacts from these other great powers is like 10-100 times any aksumite stuff we found.

According to the opinion in the lecture I posted above, it was not due to them being an empire in and of itself but more so being allied to the Romans as opposed to the Persians who were surrounding the Muslims and more of a threat at the time.

It makes a lot of sense of it, when you look at it geopolitically.

 

[Idilinaa]

Same thing in Somalia but even worse. In Opone, not even a single percent has been excavated of the ancient city. Much less larger more important cities like Mosylon or Rhapta.

Archaeologist Work in the Ancient city of Opone (Hafun)

Yeah it really is a shame.

Have you seen what i shared about Mogadishu?, the two old medieval quarters. They only managed to dig 1 trench. But based on the descriptions it sounds like it was monumental

one of the abandoned quarters of Mogadishu called Hamar Jabab covered 5km2 , which essentially made it hold around a population of 500.000 people. Thats just 1 quarter, not even El Garweyne was excavated yet crazyy right

They also found a city in Mareeg as well, buried under sand dunes, surrounded by villages

Mareeg is often left out of important mention when it was a prominent city , a lot of the old is submerged under sand dunes tho. And it also had villages enjoining it. Local coinages as well.

A big portion of the coast probably has lost cities, monuments and treasures buried under it.

 

[Idilinaa]

I did not realize this until listening to this lecture recently.

He emphasized the ties they had to the Romans, and that part of the reason the Hijra was directed there is it was the last region the Persians did not control. It was the last region that could be escaped to if they attacked Arabia after they defeated the Romans in Damascus and Alexandria. This is while they already controlled Yemen and Iraq, they basically had Arabia surrounded.

The first initial campaigns into Yemen were kickstarted by the Axumites alone.

The invasions or crusades in general really left a big impact in Arab memory and consciousness, u don't really realize it until you see how many only Arab writers and historians kept re-purposing the past memory of them long after they had gone away to the whole horn itself and as a cautionary tale.

 

[Zak12]

Yeah it really is a shame.

Have you seen what i shared about Mogadishu?, the two old medieval quarters. They only managed to dig 1 trench. But based on the descriptions it sounds like it was monumental



They also found a city in Mareeg as well, buried under sand dunes, surrounded by villages



A big portion of the coast probably has lost cities, monuments and treasures buried under it.

It really does suck. So much history is buried underneath and hardly any effort is being done. We know for a fact from foreign descriptions that Somali cities were large and developed so its out there.

Btw idilina, do you have those texts describing Somali cities having aqueducts and other kinds of infastructure? I remembered someone posted it here

 

[Qeelbax]

By the way for your info, Abu Dharr al Ghifari, the sahabi who had the incident with Bilal was described as black in complexion himself.

As for modern Arabs or Arabised peoples often having a mediterranean appearance, that is due to intermixing that happened. Pure bedouins that retain more Natufian like ancestry do not look like that. They would be considered Caucasian by craniofacial measurements and hair type, but their complexion was much darker.

Its not surprising either, as even us Somalis who have a substantial amount of ancient East African ancestry produce mediterranean looking offspring within one generation of mixing with a European type ethnicity.

What kills me is that Bilal ra was half habesha and half arab, yet he is always depicted as a very very dark and west african looking man. He probably looked way more like those arabs than any black person.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Not too long ago Gulf scholars were making sermon recordings to remind people how much Somali scholars in the late 1800s and early 1900s were aiding in saving Gulf countries from hunger and destitution. They have documents and lists of their names

Somalis should save this information and all Somali history and fight back against these disinformation peddlers. I wouldn't be surprised if they even try to get these things deleted and edited.

 

[Idilinaa]

Somalis should save this information and all Somali history and fight back against these disinformation peddlers. I wouldn't be surprised if they even try to get these things deleted and edited.

We definitely should collect our history and share it but not to fight back against Arabs or others. If they are open to corrections or want to enquire us about we should educate them, if not we should leave them be to think what they want. The most important thing is for us to educate ourselves and our people.

You be surprised to see how many Somalis don't know a lot about their history or even have knowledge about the geography of their country. Or just peddle disinformation themselves.

So we should start at home.

 

[Idilinaa]

It really does suck. So much history is buried underneath and hardly any effort is being done. We know for a fact from foreign descriptions that Somali cities were large and developed so its out there.

Cities throughout history have a tendency to go up and down in population numbers, either be reduced or flourish, be abandoned either completely or in parts. It's no different for Somali cities.

Constantinople for example was a big city with a population of 500.00 but if you visited it before its fall to the Ottomans in 1453 you would have seen it had become an agglomeration of villages, it being abandoned and large parts of it turned into grassland and cow pasture

Most of the the structures, monuments and buildings crumbled or decayed, abandoned or destroyed.


Rather than it falling, the Ottomans did more to revive it when it was dying over centuries.

Btw idilina, do you have those texts describing Somali cities having aqueducts and other kinds of infastructure? I remembered someone posted it here

I shared it in this thread. It was was various vaulted cisterns in Zeila and its Island built out of stone and plastered with lime and an old aqueducts found near Berbera.

The only aqueduct to speak about is the ancient one near Berbera. Berbera as a town is a unique case because it lacks adequate water , so they had to build a water transportation system that brought water from a resovoir miles away in the interior. As far as i know they never said it was built by a forgotten race at all, when the population and the economy declined it fell into disuse. If you don't have any need to use it, you just don't use it anymore. It is not really complicated.

Just to add to this thread , Zeila and its nearby Island Sa'ad Din have been mentioned by 19th century observers that visited them to have vaulted cisterns and several tanks and a system of cannals/water courses.

It may actually support and explain the early references to water being transported from Zayla to Aden and later Barbars(Somalis) from them settling and building the first cisterns.

I was a bit skeptical first when i first read this: But it could be true.

It is actually mentioned in medieval Arab sources that talks about Somalis/Barbars from Zayla were constructing cisterns

HISTORY - Somalis Captured Cadan in the 12th Century and Built Famous Water Works

According to the Yemeni historian, Ibn al Mujawir, the 'Barabir' captured Cadan in the 12th century and built a number of water-works (Tarikh Ibn Mujawir, p. 132). I will try and add the exact photo of the page in the source once I find it. Found this on 'Taariikh iyo Aasaar'

www.somalispot.com

 

[Idilinaa]

Everyone in the comments is calling him out for his lies

Yeah i saw this comment as well.

Not entirely accurate what he saying. We didn't really export what he listed back then.

Not too long ago Gulf scholars were making sermon recordings to remind people how much Somali scholars in the late 1800s and early 1900s were aiding in saving Gulf countries from hunger and destitution. They have documents and lists of their names

Let me clarify this post . Somalis didn't export a lot of livestock or even camels to Arabs, prior to colonial intrusion. You can look up the exports commodities in the early and mid 1800s and livestock/camels didn't figure much in any of it 1800 exports from Berbera

Arabia by and large were partially reliant on agricultural grains coming from the Western Galbeen/Haraar uplands and Southern Somalia. Wheat from Berbera and Millet from Mogadishu were the main cash crops exported.

Somalia was the main supplier of grain and other products to Southern Arabia and Yemen. Which basically dubbed southern-central part of Somalia as the ''Grain Coast supplier of Southern Arabia'' from the mid 1800s

In the medieval times 1500s Northern Somalia used to produce a lot of food of all types, especially various agricultural products and the export of it went to supply Aden and other parts of Arabia to qoute ''A port of much provisions for Aden, and all parts of Arabia'' . So yeah you are right in a way when you say it was the ''breadbasket''

The general region produced so much food that it exported much of it's surplus to regions nearby.

 

[Maakhri2024]

That is due to modern ignorance. Ancient Arabs were generally darker in complexion so that sentiment is a modern thing. Probably due to more slaves coming from Africa in later ages, whereas it was the opposite in the ancient past slavery was synonymous with whiteness.

No, it probably was a general association that started from the 18th century when there was slave boom where the majority of the slaves became swahili and ethiopian/oromo in origin who were transported out of East Africa to the the wider Arab and Middle Eastern world

You are wrong, Arabs always look down on black people, even before and after Islam.

Black Africans were the first type of slave known to the Arabs and the last to be imported into the Arab-Islamic Middle East.
One of the first known black Africans to be enslaved in the Arabian Peninsula and become one of the first converts to Islam was an Abyssinian named Bilal ibn Rabah, who was possessed and later freed by Abu Bakr.


Abu Dharr exclaimed out of anger (to Bilal ), “Even you, O son of a black woman, try to correct me?”
Bilal ibn Rabah got up, visibly upset at what was said .
قال ﺃﺑﻮ ﺫﺭ لبلال ﺣﺘﻰ ﺃﻧﺖ ﻳﺎ ﺍﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ ﺗﺨﻄﺌﻨﻲ؟
ﻓﻘﺎﻡ ﺑﻼﻝ ﻣﺪﻫﻮﺷﺎً ﻏﻀﺒﺎﻥ ﺃﺳﻔﺎً


examples :

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."
عَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ اسْمَعُوا وَأَطِيعُوا وَإِنِ اسْتُعْمِلَ عَلَيْكُمْ عَبْدٌ حَبَشِيٌّ كَأَنَّ رَأْسَهُ زَبِيبَةٌ ‏"‏‏.‏

The hadith means that it is obligatory to hear and obey, even if the ruler is an Abyssinian slave .
The significance of that statement shows the widespread condescending view that Arabs have towards blacks.


A mutilated black slave was mentioned, and the blackness of his skin was added as a sign of slavery and to demean the black man and make him a slave who is not fit to rule : ⤵
(It was narrated from Umm Husain that she heard the Messenger of Allah ﷺ say: "Even if the one appointed over you is a mutilated Ethiopian slave whose nose and ears have been cut off, listen to him and obey, so long as he leads you according to the Book of Allah".).
عَنْ جَدَّتِهِ أُمِّ الْحُصَيْنِ، قَالَتْ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ﷺ يَقُولُ ‏ "‏ إِنْ أُمِّرَ عَلَيْكُمْ عَبْدٌ حَبَشِيٌّ مُجَدَّعٌ فَاسْمَعُوا لَهُ وَأَطِيعُوا مَا قَادَكُمْ بِكِتَابِ اللَّهِ

The status of the black slave is lower than that of the white slave : ⤵
Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported: There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) .
عَنْ جَابِرٍ، قَالَ جَاءَ عَبْدٌ فَبَايَعَ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَلَى الْهِجْرَةِ وَلَمْ يَشْعُرْ أَنَّهُ عَبْدٌ فَجَاءَ سَيِّدُهُ يُرِيدُهُ فَقَالَ لَهُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ بِعْنِيهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَاشْتَرَاهُ بِعَبْدَيْنِ أَسْوَدَيْنِ ثُمَّ لَمْ يُبَايِعْ أَحَدًا بَعْدُ حَتَّى يَسْأَلَهُ ‏"‏ أَعَبْدٌ هُوَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

 

[Lightshow]

You are wrong, Arabs always look down on black people, even before and after Islam.

Black Africans were the first type of slave known to the Arabs and the last to be imported into the Arab-Islamic Middle East.
One of the first known black Africans to be enslaved in the Arabian Peninsula and become one of the first converts to Islam was an Abyssinian named Bilal ibn Rabah, who was possessed and later freed by Abu Bakr.


Abu Dharr exclaimed out of anger (to Bilal ), “Even you, O son of a black woman, try to correct me?”
Bilal ibn Rabah got up, visibly upset at what was said .
قال ﺃﺑﻮ ﺫﺭ لبلال ﺣﺘﻰ ﺃﻧﺖ ﻳﺎ ﺍﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ ﺗﺨﻄﺌﻨﻲ؟
ﻓﻘﺎﻡ ﺑﻼﻝ ﻣﺪﻫﻮﺷﺎً ﻏﻀﺒﺎﻥ ﺃﺳﻔﺎً


examples :

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."
عَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ اسْمَعُوا وَأَطِيعُوا وَإِنِ اسْتُعْمِلَ عَلَيْكُمْ عَبْدٌ حَبَشِيٌّ كَأَنَّ رَأْسَهُ زَبِيبَةٌ ‏"‏‏.‏

The hadith means that it is obligatory to hear and obey, even if the ruler is an Abyssinian slave .
The significance of that statement shows the widespread condescending view that Arabs have towards blacks.


A mutilated black slave was mentioned, and the blackness of his skin was added as a sign of slavery and to demean the black man and make him a slave who is not fit to rule : ⤵
(It was narrated from Umm Husain that she heard the Messenger of Allah ﷺ say: "Even if the one appointed over you is a mutilated Ethiopian slave whose nose and ears have been cut off, listen to him and obey, so long as he leads you according to the Book of Allah".).
عَنْ جَدَّتِهِ أُمِّ الْحُصَيْنِ، قَالَتْ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ﷺ يَقُولُ ‏ "‏ إِنْ أُمِّرَ عَلَيْكُمْ عَبْدٌ حَبَشِيٌّ مُجَدَّعٌ فَاسْمَعُوا لَهُ وَأَطِيعُوا مَا قَادَكُمْ بِكِتَابِ اللَّهِ

The status of the black slave is lower than that of the white slave : ⤵
Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported: There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) .
عَنْ جَابِرٍ، قَالَ جَاءَ عَبْدٌ فَبَايَعَ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَلَى الْهِجْرَةِ وَلَمْ يَشْعُرْ أَنَّهُ عَبْدٌ فَجَاءَ سَيِّدُهُ يُرِيدُهُ فَقَالَ لَهُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ بِعْنِيهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَاشْتَرَاهُ بِعَبْدَيْنِ أَسْوَدَيْنِ ثُمَّ لَمْ يُبَايِعْ أَحَدًا بَعْدُ حَتَّى يَسْأَلَهُ ‏"‏ أَعَبْدٌ هُوَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

You are the definition of confirmation bias.

 

[Maakhri2024]

You are the definition of confirmation bias.

Do you want more?
What Somalis need is critical thinking .
Critical thinking is rare and crippling among Somalis .

 

[Lightshow]

Do you want more?
What Somalis need is critical thinking .
Critical thinking is rare and crippling among Somalis .

Bro now you are displaying what we call the dunning kruger effect.

Your sources and opinions are overly simplistic and brash, and yet you believe someone else needs critical thinking.

 

[Guure⁸]

That's not true, most believe we speak Arabic and pester us about it, a lot of the times they lump us with Sudanese.

If anything the slavery conflations would probably have to do with Ethiopians because there was a large oromo/ethiopian slave population in the Gulf. So i doubt there is any deep rooted agenda towards us. It's just ignorance of historical knowledge

It's true I've met some that think somali is a kswahili language