Battle of Alcácer Quibir - Wikipedia
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Legendary Moroccan victory against the Portuguese @SOMALI GENERAL @CaliTedesse @Saeedlfc
Greatest African countries of all time
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en.wikipedia.org
Legendary Moroccan victory against the Portuguese @SOMALI GENERAL @CaliTedesse @Saeedlfc
Christian Sudan is an interesting period as well, Makuria Kingdom where heavily influenced by the Byzantine and they defeated the Arabs twice in battle.
Ajuuran... 
SOMALI GENERAL
VIP
Impressive. The Makurians defeated the Arabs twice at Dongola & manged to keep Arabisation at bay.
Ghengis Kaarhis
VIP
Somalia baby
You be killing that emoji sxb.Adal Sultanate. They conquered Ethiopia. That's on our resume
Adaawe
Xoog iyo Xiniyo #NGM enforcer
Genetic studies show that punics were north african not phoenician which is logical because phoenician settlers took local women and even the elite mixed with the north african elite. Saying carthaginians were lebaneses is like saying modern north africans are arabs because of the arab conquest
Wakanda and Wadiya 
1. Egypt.
2. Mali.
3. Ethiopia.
4. Morocco.
5. Tunisia.
6. Sudan.
7. Algeria.
Those are my guesses. Ethiopia is way too underrated on yours but maybe that's your bias talking.
Not that interesting. Ethiopia and Egypt were converted to Christianity by the Byzantine empire as well. That's why the orthodox tradition exists in those countries. Eventually Egypt and Sudan fell to the Arabs and both converted to Islam became Arabized.
SOMALI GENERAL
VIP
The issue is they were never regarded as "African" by the Numidians/Berbers and were always viewed as foreign aggressors/occupiers.
To my knowledge, the Carthaginian minority may have mixed with locals to an extent, but overall still segregated themselves within the City from the Numidian masses to protect their minority identity. Im aware of the fact that some Carthaginian royals & Numidian/Amazigh royals intermarried, but lets only discuss the average genetic make up of a Carthaginian person.
Could you link a source(s) sxb, to my knowledge these people were still predominantly Phoenician genetically and continued to practice Phoenician culture.
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Actually it was more complicated than this : In north africa they were indeed not seen as "african" because of their punic culture but outsiders like romans for example clearly view them as african that's why they distinguished the Phoenicians of the East "phoenices" and those of the West from a mixture with the local populations "poeni" (Punic). The same way modern north africans are viewed as "arabs" by outsiders but in north africa there is a clear cultural difference between "arabs" and "berbers". Carthaginians were punicized berbers, the same way most modern north africans are arabized and don't feel any kind of relation with the berber culture.
as for genetic studies here some quotes :
"Beyond our focal interest in Sardinia, the results from individuals from the Phoenician-Punic sites Monte Sirai and Villamar shed some light on the ancestry of a historically impactful Mediterranean population. Notably, they show strong genetic relationships to ancient North-African and eastern Mediterranean sources. These results mirror other emerging ancient DNA studies37,58, and are not unexpected given that the Punic center of Carthage on the North-African coast itself has roots in the eastern Mediterranean. Interestingly, the Monte Sirai individuals, predating the Villamar individuals by several centuries, show less North-African ancestry. This could be because they harbor earlier Phoenician ancestry and North-African admixture may have been unique to the later Punic context "
source : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6#Sec9
the mount sirai samples who were directly from phoenicia show way less NA admixture than the later Villamar samples who came directly from Carthage. Also most of these punic samples were mixed with the local sardinians.
Here for example the result of one villamar sample :
| Target: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL011 Distance: 2.9578% / 0.02957823 | ADC: 0.25x | |
|---|---|
| 52.8 | Berber_Tunisia_Chen |
| 27.0 | Sardinian |
| 6.6 | Moroccan_North |
| 5.6 | Yemenite_Mahra |
| 5.0 | Maltese |
| 3.0 | Moroccan_Jew |
here his closest population :
| Distance to: | ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL011 |
|---|---|
| 0.07275738 | Moroccan_North |
| 0.07776363 | Berber_Tunisia_Chen |
| 0.08748593 | Berber_Tunisia_Sen |
| 0.08757873 | Moroccan_Jew |
| 0.08858849 | Libyan_Jew |
| 0.08907660 | Tunisian_Jew |
| 0.09417202 | Tunisian |
| 0.10339761 | Libyan |
| 0.10499990 | Maltese |
| 0.10611097 | Spanish_Canarias |
Also here datas from south-east spain (a region heavily colonized by carthaginians) :
"In the southeast, we recovered genomic data from 45 individuals dated between the 3rd and 16th centuries CE. All analyzed individuals fell outside the genetic variation of preceding Iberian Iron Age populations (Fig. 1, C and D, and fig. S3) and harbored ancestry from both Southern European and North African populations (Fig. 2D), as well as additional Levantine-related ancestry that could potentially reflect ancestry from Jewish groups (21). These results demonstrate that by the Roman period, southern Iberia had experienced a major influx of North African ancestry, probably related to the well-known mobility patterns during the Roman Empire (22) or to the earlier Phoenician-Punic presence (23); the latter is also supported by the observation of the Phoenician-associated Y-chromosome J2 (24). Gene flow from North Africa continued into the Muslim period, as is clear from Muslim burials with elevated North African and sub-Saharan African ancestry (Fig. 2D, fig. S4, and table S22) and from uniparental markers typical of North Africa not present among pre-Islamic individuals (Fig. 2D and fig. S11). Present-day populations from southern Iberia harbor less North African ancestry (25) than the ancient Muslim burials, plausibly reflecting expulsion of moriscos (former Muslims converted to Christianity) and repopulation from the north, as supported by historical sources and genetic analysis of present-day groups (25). The impact of Muslim rule is also evident in northeast Iberia in seven individuals from Sant Julià de Ramis from the 8th to 12th centuries CE who, unlike previous ancient individuals from the same region, show North African–related ancestry (Fig. 2C and table S19) and a complete overlap in PCA with present-day Iberians (Fig. 1D)."
Science | AAAS
science.sciencemag.org
It's also the opinion shared by most historians :
"From this penetration of the Carthaginians into the midst of the African populations was to result a kind of fusion which leads to a large ethnic and cultural community. This is how, to take an example, in the time of Saint Augustine, there was still spoken a kind of Libyco-Punic dialect in certain rural areas. The civilization of Carthage had been able to impose itself little by little, but in their turn, certain indigenous customs and traditional beliefs left their mark on those of these Phoenicians who became Libyphenicians. (This name was first given to the Phoenicians installed in the colonies of the African coast; only later, it is found applied to the Libyans having adopted the Punic customs and it also seems to have taken a legal and administrative value to designate the citizens of the Punic cities who benefited from the same civil rights that the Carthaginians of the capital.) By this "Africanization", which enriches it further, the civil the Punic region genuinely belongs to the North African cultural heritage. "there is no doubt, writes Jérôme Carcopino, that these colonies have, in the long run, formed as many centers of a mixed civilization which, step by step, has spread from the coast to the continent and has prevailed over all of North Africa, and for millennia, the spirit of Carthage "" Carthage ou l'empire de la mer, François Decret, p114
"From the meeting of these two entities, Eastern and African, was born the Punic fact. It is not the simple transplantation on the African ground of what was in Sidon and Tire. If the Punic tradition was so alive among ancient Africans is precisely that it was not foreign to them but formed in their midst, in cities where the essentially Semitic onomastics can not hide the African ethnic contribution. " https://journals.openedition.org/encyclopedieberbere/2293
"Berber princes married women from Carthaginian society, which was largely open to the natives, so that very early on it was difficult to distinguish a Carthaginian of purely Phoenician origin from a Carthaginian of purely Libyan origin. This is why the Punic term, usually applied to the Carthaginians, is still more suitable for the Berbers strongly marked by the influences of the Carthaginian civilization." « La civilisation punique », M'hamed Hassine Fantar, Histoire et Archéologie (les dossiers d'archéologie), nº 69, décembre 82/janvier 83, p. 16
Also north africans played a big role in the carthaginian history they for example made the majority of the carthaginian infantry and cavalry. Some famous generals were even fully berber like Maharbal and if Hannibal lost in Zama it was not because of Scipio's intellect but because the numidian cavalry choose the roman side. Totally isolating carthage from north africa's history is wrong tbh
SOMALI GENERAL
VIP
Did the Punics of full or partial Iberian origin play any significant role in the Carthaginian Empire?Actually it was more complicated than this : In north africa they were indeed not seen as "african" because of their punic culture but outsiders like romans for example clearly view them as african that's why they distinguished the Phoenicians of the East "phoenices" and those of the West from a mixture with the local populations "poeni" (Punic). The same way modern north africans are viewed as "arabs" by outsiders but in north africa there is a clear cultural difference between "arabs" and "berbers". Carthaginians were punicized berbers, the same way most modern north africans are arabized and don't feel any kind of relation with the berber culture.
as for genetic studies here some quotes :
"Beyond our focal interest in Sardinia, the results from individuals from the Phoenician-Punic sites Monte Sirai and Villamar shed some light on the ancestry of a historically impactful Mediterranean population. Notably, they show strong genetic relationships to ancient North-African and eastern Mediterranean sources. These results mirror other emerging ancient DNA studies37,58, and are not unexpected given that the Punic center of Carthage on the North-African coast itself has roots in the eastern Mediterranean. Interestingly, the Monte Sirai individuals, predating the Villamar individuals by several centuries, show less North-African ancestry. This could be because they harbor earlier Phoenician ancestry and North-African admixture may have been unique to the later Punic context "
source : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6#Sec9
the mount sirai samples who were directly from phoenicia show way less NA admixture than the later Villamar samples who came directly from Carthage. Also most of these punic samples were mixed with the local sardinians.
Here for example the result of one villamar sample :
Target: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL011
Distance: 2.9578% / 0.02957823 | ADC: 0.25x52.8 Berber_Tunisia_Chen 27.0 Sardinian 6.6 Moroccan_North 5.6 Yemenite_Mahra 5.0 Maltese 3.0 Moroccan_Jew
here his closest population :
Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL011 0.07275738 Moroccan_North 0.07776363 Berber_Tunisia_Chen 0.08748593 Berber_Tunisia_Sen 0.08757873 Moroccan_Jew 0.08858849 Libyan_Jew 0.08907660 Tunisian_Jew 0.09417202 Tunisian 0.10339761 Libyan 0.10499990 Maltese 0.10611097 Spanish_Canarias
Also here datas from south-east spain (a region heavily colonized by carthaginians) :
"In the southeast, we recovered genomic data from 45 individuals dated between the 3rd and 16th centuries CE. All analyzed individuals fell outside the genetic variation of preceding Iberian Iron Age populations (Fig. 1, C and D, and fig. S3) and harbored ancestry from both Southern European and North African populations (Fig. 2D), as well as additional Levantine-related ancestry that could potentially reflect ancestry from Jewish groups (21). These results demonstrate that by the Roman period, southern Iberia had experienced a major influx of North African ancestry, probably related to the well-known mobility patterns during the Roman Empire (22) or to the earlier Phoenician-Punic presence (23); the latter is also supported by the observation of the Phoenician-associated Y-chromosome J2 (24). Gene flow from North Africa continued into the Muslim period, as is clear from Muslim burials with elevated North African and sub-Saharan African ancestry (Fig. 2D, fig. S4, and table S22) and from uniparental markers typical of North Africa not present among pre-Islamic individuals (Fig. 2D and fig. S11). Present-day populations from southern Iberia harbor less North African ancestry (25) than the ancient Muslim burials, plausibly reflecting expulsion of moriscos (former Muslims converted to Christianity) and repopulation from the north, as supported by historical sources and genetic analysis of present-day groups (25). The impact of Muslim rule is also evident in northeast Iberia in seven individuals from Sant Julià de Ramis from the 8th to 12th centuries CE who, unlike previous ancient individuals from the same region, show North African–related ancestry (Fig. 2C and table S19) and a complete overlap in PCA with present-day Iberians (Fig. 1D)."
Science | AAAS
It's also the opinion shared by most historians :
"From this penetration of the Carthaginians into the midst of the African populations was to result a kind of fusion which leads to a large ethnic and cultural community. This is how, to take an example, in the time of Saint Augustine, there was still spoken a kind of Libyco-Punic dialect in certain rural areas. The civilization of Carthage had been able to impose itself little by little, but in their turn, certain indigenous customs and traditional beliefs left their mark on those of these Phoenicians who became Libyphenicians. (This name was first given to the Phoenicians installed in the colonies of the African coast; only later, it is found applied to the Libyans having adopted the Punic customs and it also seems to have taken a legal and administrative value to designate the citizens of the Punic cities who benefited from the same civil rights that the Carthaginians of the capital.) By this "Africanization", which enriches it further, the civil the Punic region genuinely belongs to the North African cultural heritage. "there is no doubt, writes Jérôme Carcopino, that these colonies have, in the long run, formed as many centers of a mixed civilization which, step by step, has spread from the coast to the continent and has prevailed over all of North Africa, and for millennia, the spirit of Carthage "" Carthage ou l'empire de la mer, François Decret, p114
"From the meeting of these two entities, Eastern and African, was born the Punic fact. It is not the simple transplantation on the African ground of what was in Sidon and Tire. If the Punic tradition was so alive among ancient Africans is precisely that it was not foreign to them but formed in their midst, in cities where the essentially Semitic onomastics can not hide the African ethnic contribution. " https://journals.openedition.org/encyclopedieberbere/2293
"Berber princes married women from Carthaginian society, which was largely open to the natives, so that very early on it was difficult to distinguish a Carthaginian of purely Phoenician origin from a Carthaginian of purely Libyan origin. This is why the Punic term, usually applied to the Carthaginians, is still more suitable for the Berbers strongly marked by the influences of the Carthaginian civilization." « La civilisation punique », M'hamed Hassine Fantar, Histoire et Archéologie (les dossiers d'archéologie), nº 69, décembre 82/janvier 83, p. 16
Also north africans played a big role in the carthaginian history they for example made the majority of the carthaginian infantry and cavalry. Some famous generals were even fully berber like Maharbal and if Hannibal lost in Zama it was not because of Scipio's intellect but because the numidian cavalry choose the roman side. Totally isolating carthage from north africa's history is wrong tbh
That's more difficult to know but what is sure is that iberians also made a big portion of the carthaginian army for example in Italy hannibal had 26,000 men, 6000 horsemen and 20,000 infantrymen of which 12,000 were African and 8000 iberian. Also many carthaginian generals married iberian princesses in order to maintain the order in the region. For example Hannibal's wife was iberian
sicily is in Italy my guy not in africa
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If a street interview were conducted in Somalia, asking people their opinions on marital x**gis, what do you think their responses would be?
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