Good-looking Somalis should only produce with good-looking Somalis

[Vanessa]

I dont know I guess it's not ugly I retract that part but imo it's less attractive than light gums

That’s your preference mate

 

[Adi]

Somalis with buck teeth and weird shaped heads are most likely the product of ''incest'' aka marrying inside family clans. This is why I probably won't marry a Somali girl or have baby's with her.

Don't get me wrong...there are some beautiful Somali lady's out there. But I just don't want to take the risk of ending up with a girl that is a far relative of me (Somalis are all far relatives), or children that are the product of semi-incest. Diversity is good for the genes, even if we hate to see our women with others.

 

[Sophisticate]

Somalis with buck teeth and weird shaped heads are most likely the product of ''incest'' aka marrying inside family clans. This is why I probably won't marry a Somali girl or have baby's with her.

Don't get me wrong...there are some beautiful Somali lady's out there. But I just don't want to take the risk of ending up with a girl that is a far relative of me (Somalis are all far relatives), or children that are the product of semi-incest. Diversity is good for the genes, even if we hate to see our women with others.

Most populations are semi-related as most used to marry within their respective class, race and ethnic groupings (until lately they would often marry those within a couple kilometres away from them). Also birds of a feather flock together in the more shared the similarities in outlook, looks, education, finances and heritage the more favourable the marital outcome(s). Commonalities bind. You're overstating the closeness between Somalis. I'm the same tribe on both sides not the same family. My parents aren't particularly related and look nothing alike. I'm actually closer to some clans outside of my qabil. So what you are saying doesn't match up. And my parents both lack those undesirable traits which have never been inherited. Also you are in favour of cuckoldry which is odd but do you.

 

[Adi]

Most populations are semi-related as most used to marry within their respective class, race and ethnic groupings (until lately they would often marry those within a couple kilometres away from them). Also birds of a feather flock together in the more shared the similarities in outlook, looks, education, finances and heritage the more favourable the marital outcome(s). Commonalities bind. You're overstating the closeness between Somalis. I'm the same tribe on both sides not the same family. My parents aren't particularly related and look nothing alike. I'm actually closer to some clans outside of my qabil. So what you are saying doesn't match up. And my parents both lack those undesirable traits which have never been inherited. Also you are in favour of cuckoldry which is odd but do you.

Sure, the human population around the world are some what related but most of them have a more diverse ancestry and gene pool compared to Somalis who keep reproducing inside the same small pool, all most likely having the same recessive genes, and this clearly shows in some of Somali looks and the high number of severe retardation, mental health problems and low IQ numbers. The average untrained spectator probably thinks that 90% of Somalis all look-alike and come from the same family, ffs.

I am not in favor of cuckoldery at all, but If I have the choice, I choose not to have children with a girl that comes from the same genetic population giving me a high risk of having children that suffer from the above named problems.

I'm just keeping us healthy by diversifying the gene pool.

 

[Sophisticate]

Sure, the human population around the world are some what related but most of them have a more diverse ancestry and gene pool compared to Somalis who keep reproducing inside the same small pool, all most likely having the same recessive genes, and this clearly shows in some of Somali looks and the high number of severe retardation, mental health problems and low IQ numbers. The average untrained spectator probably thinks that 90% of Somalis all look-alike and come from the same family, ffs.

I am not in favor of cuckoldery at all, but If I have the choice, I choose not to have children with a girl that comes from the same genetic population giving me a high risk of having children that suffer from the above named problems.

I'm just keeping us healthy by diversifying the gene pool.

Lol, you generated those 'facts' from thin air. Somalis are no more inbred than any other group. I think you are speaking more as a product of close cousin marriage. Am I correct?

I have not met Somalis with congenital health abnormalities from close cousin marriage at the occurrence of MENA groups and some Muslim South Asians populations. Also, there is really no data to substantiate your claim.

The Japanese are significantly less diverse but highly homogenous with high IQs.

Also, IQ is a cop out when many Somalis overseas are at least of near average intelligence or above. Compare that to a lawless and listless nation that has been starved and polluted with superstition, suspicions of rival tribes and zero sum politics.

But I see mating choices as totally individual but if we are going down that rabbit hole. As a female with non-inbred features I have my pick but I choose a desirable Somali that is unrelated to me over a foreigner. You can get on with whoever you choose. I like when people express their agency.

 

[Adi]

Lol, you generated those 'facts' from thin air. Somalis are no more inbred than any other group. I think you are speaking more as a product of close cousin marriage. Am I correct?

I have not met Somalis with congenital health abnormalities from close cousin marriage at the occurrence of MENA groups and some Muslim South Asians populations. Also, there is really no data to substantiate your claim.

The Japanese are significantly less diverse but highly homogenous with high IQs.

Also, IQ is a cop out when many Somalis overseas are at least of near average intelligence or above. Compare that to a lawless and listless nation that has been starved and polluted with superstition, suspicions of rival tribes and zero sum politics.

But I see mating choices as totally individual but if we are going down that rabbit hole. As a female with non-inbred features I have my pick but I choose a desirable Somali that is unrelated to me over a foreigner. You can get on with whoever you choose. I like when people express their agency.

Obviously I don't have data to back up my claims since Somalia is a shithole country right now with no proper governance and reliable studies coming out of it. My comment was mostly based on my own observations and experience. I have seen plenty of Somalis looking healthy and fit but this is a minority imho.

 

[Abdi sensei]

Two good looking parents do not often produce a good looking child.

DNA recombination is a funny thing.

A good looking father’s physical features he passes down to his child could make an homely daughter. And the same goes for a pretty mother to her son.

The most beautiful people often come from homely parents.

 

[Sophisticate]

Two good looking parents do not often produce a good looking child.

DNA recombination is a funny thing.

A good looking father’s physical features he passes down to his child could make an homely daughter. And the same goes for a pretty mother to her son.

The most beautiful people often come from homely parents.

I disagree. You also have not factored in the looks of the grandparents which bear some consideration nor the environment factors which contribute to being less attractive. Also how many good looking kids became unattractive with age (from mouth breathing) and how many beaver teeth possessing children blossomed with braces. It's not as straight forward as you think. I would say attractive parents give you a good starting point.

Also, it's not attractive men that ruin their daughters in beauty it's men with highly masculine 'brawny' features that have the possibility of passing that on to their female kin. Some Somalis have chiseled jaws but most don't have highly angular features that would make their daughter androgynous looking. Thank God for that. @Adi enjoy the genetic roulette.

 

[Squidward245]

Lol, you generated those 'facts' from thin air. Somalis are no more inbred than any other group. I think you are speaking more as a product of close cousin marriage. Am I correct?

I have not met Somalis with congenital health abnormalities from close cousin marriage at the occurrence of MENA groups and some Muslim South Asians populations. Also, there is really no data to substantiate your claim.

The Japanese are significantly less diverse but highly homogenous with high IQs.

Also, IQ is a cop out when many Somalis overseas are at least of near average intelligence or above. Compare that to a lawless and listless nation that has been starved and polluted with superstition, suspicions of rival tribes and zero sum politics.

But I see mating choices as totally individual but if we are going down that rabbit hole. As a female with non-inbred features I have my pick but I choose a desirable Somali that is unrelated to me over a foreigner. You can get on with whoever you choose. I like when people express their agency.

This is false. Most inbred countries or countries which have the highest rate of consanguineous are mostly muslim.

With regards to Somalia,

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214426917301507

Somali's were included in the Arab ethnicity(no idea why), however only 28.6% were consanguineous.

However looking at the bigger picture, I would say most if not all Muslim countries definitely practice incest related marriage meaning most are inbred which isn't a surprise if you look at the stats.

 

[Sophisticate]

This is false. Most inbred countries or countries which have the highest rate of consanguineous are mostly muslim.

With regards to Somalia,

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214426917301507

View attachment 78363

Somali's were included in the Arab ethnicity(no idea why), however only 28.6% were consanguineous.

However looking at the bigger picture, I would say most if not all Muslim countries definitely practice incest related marriage meaning most are inbred which isn't a surprise if you look at the stats.

Consanguineous marriage was not common among Somalis. They used to encourage marrying exogenously between sub-clans rather than within (I'm not sure if this was universal). Nonetheless some do marry closely but it is by no means not the norm, nor do they have the practice of multi-generational first cousin marriage commonly practiced by certain South Asians and certain MENA groups. That is the point I was making.

Also I see no mention of Somalia in the graphic nor in the article. But if you can provide a source with disaggregated data of Somalis from Arabs that would be appreciated since they do not behave exactly the same in this respect. And then compare Somalis relative to other Muslim groups.

 

[Squidward245]

Consanguineous marriage was not common among Somalis. They used to encourage marrying exogenously between sub-clans rather than within (I'm not sure if this was universal). Nonetheless some do marry closely but it is by no means not the norm, nor do they have the practice of multi-generational first cousin marriage commonly practiced by certain South Asians and certain MENA groups. That is the point I was making.

Also I see no mention of Somalia in the graphic nor in the article. But if you can provide a source with disaggregated data of Somalis from Arabs that would be appreciated since they do not behave exactly the same in this respect. And then compare Somalis relative to other Muslim groups.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-8749.2008.03036.x

"
Results
Prevalence rates
A total of 501 children (0.2% of the total child population, with a male:female ratio of 3:1) had a diagnosis of autistic disorder or PDDNOS and were registered at either of the two habilitation centres for children with autistic disorder or PDDNOS in Stockholm in 2005. Seventeen (13 males, four females, population‐adjusted male:female ratio 3.3:1) of the 501 children with autistic disorder (n=14) or PDDNOS (n=3; 3.4% of all with autistic disorder or PDDNOS) had a Somali background. Fifteen of these were registered at the north centre and two at the south centre.

The minimum prevalence of autistic disorder or PDDNOS was 0.7% (17 of 2437; 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.37–1.03) among children with a Somali background. Among the children with a non‐Somali background the corresponding prevalence was 0.19% (484 of 250 565; 95% CI 0.18–0.21; p<0.001).
"

Our hypothesis that the prevalence of autistic disorder or PDDNOS was increased in children with a Somali background living in Sweden was confirmed. The prevalence was threefold to fourfold that in children of non‐Somali origin living in the county (0.7% vs 0.19%). At the habilitation centres, children from Somalia constituted 3.4% (17 of 501) and the rate of Somali children in the county was 0.96% (2437 of 253 002).

Consanguineous marriages were assumed to be a factor of importance in the distribution of aetiologies of severe learning disability in that study.





-Autism linked to Consanguineous marriages from Somali groups


Also, I know this isn't a relevant source of information, but read these replies

https://www.somnet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=294361

 

[Sophisticate]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-8749.2008.03036.x

"
Results
Prevalence rates
A total of 501 children (0.2% of the total child population, with a male:female ratio of 3:1) had a diagnosis of autistic disorder or PDDNOS and were registered at either of the two habilitation centres for children with autistic disorder or PDDNOS in Stockholm in 2005. Seventeen (13 males, four females, population‐adjusted male:female ratio 3.3:1) of the 501 children with autistic disorder (n=14) or PDDNOS (n=3; 3.4% of all with autistic disorder or PDDNOS) had a Somali background. Fifteen of these were registered at the north centre and two at the south centre.

The minimum prevalence of autistic disorder or PDDNOS was 0.7% (17 of 2437; 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.37–1.03) among children with a Somali background. Among the children with a non‐Somali background the corresponding prevalence was 0.19% (484 of 250 565; 95% CI 0.18–0.21; p<0.001).
"

Our hypothesis that the prevalence of autistic disorder or PDDNOS was increased in children with a Somali background living in Sweden was confirmed. The prevalence was threefold to fourfold that in children of non‐Somali origin living in the county (0.7% vs 0.19%). At the habilitation centres, children from Somalia constituted 3.4% (17 of 501) and the rate of Somali children in the county was 0.96% (2437 of 253 002).

Consanguineous marriages were assumed to be a factor of importance in the distribution of aetiologies of severe learning disability in that study. In the present study it was not possible to obtain information about consanguinity in most of the families, but this factor cannot be excluded as being of crucial importance.





-Autism linked to Consanguineous marriages from Somali groups

You realize that Somalis have micro-cultural variations in practices among them regarding consaguinity. What I can tell you is I'm from the Galbeed close cousin marriage was not popular. In fact certain sub-clans were discouraged from marriage until recently (as they were deemed too close). I can not speak for Somalis as a whole. But what I can tell you is there is a certain degree of insight missing.

Autism and consanguity might be linked but it's a condition that is multi-factorial.

 

[Squidward245]

You realize that Somalis have micro-cultural variations in practices among them regarding consanguinity. What I can tell you is I'm from the Galbeed close cousin marriage was not popular. In fact certain sub-clans were discouraged from marriage until recently. I can not speak for Somalis as a whole.

I see, but your original statement was
"Somalis are no more inbred than any other group." in which I was arguing against. Maybe your particular tribe was against it and that is honestly really good, but i was arguing against "Somali" in general. I do agree with you that certain tribes don't practice this, but based on my study it does show that Somalis in general do show signs of inbreeding. Maybe not your tribe but others.

Although there are signs of inbreeding, it is not as high as the Pakistani community which I believe is roughly 70% are a result of cousin marriages.

Overall good argument. I learned some good stuff.

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-8749.2008.03036.x

"
Results
Prevalence rates
A total of 501 children (0.2% of the total child population, with a male:female ratio of 3:1) had a diagnosis of autistic disorder or PDDNOS and were registered at either of the two habilitation centres for children with autistic disorder or PDDNOS in Stockholm in 2005. Seventeen (13 males, four females, population‐adjusted male:female ratio 3.3:1) of the 501 children with autistic disorder (n=14) or PDDNOS (n=3; 3.4% of all with autistic disorder or PDDNOS) had a Somali background. Fifteen of these were registered at the north centre and two at the south centre.

The minimum prevalence of autistic disorder or PDDNOS was 0.7% (17 of 2437; 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.37–1.03) among children with a Somali background. Among the children with a non‐Somali background the corresponding prevalence was 0.19% (484 of 250 565; 95% CI 0.18–0.21; p<0.001).
"

Our hypothesis that the prevalence of autistic disorder or PDDNOS was increased in children with a Somali background living in Sweden was confirmed. The prevalence was threefold to fourfold that in children of non‐Somali origin living in the county (0.7% vs 0.19%). At the habilitation centres, children from Somalia constituted 3.4% (17 of 501) and the rate of Somali children in the county was 0.96% (2437 of 253 002).

Consanguineous marriages were assumed to be a factor of importance in the distribution of aetiologies of severe learning disability in that study.





-Autism linked to Consanguineous marriages from Somali groups

Nothing wrong with cousin marriages. The prophet's parents were the same sub clan(same 5th or 6th grandfather). Daughter of the prophet married imam ali , the prophets first cousin.

 

[Sophisticate]

I see, but your original statement was
"Somalis are no more inbred than any other group." in which I was arguing against. Maybe your particular tribe was against it and that is honestly really good, but i was arguing against "Somali" in general. I do agree with you that certain tribes don't practice this, but based on my study it does show that Somalis in general do show signs of inbreeding. Maybe not your tribe but others.

Although there are signs of inbreeding, it is not as high as the Pakistani community which I believe is roughly 70% are a result of cousin marriages.

Overall good argument. I learned some good stuff.

You are correct. I should not assume universality in experience when it comes to Somalis. I remember reading an old quote which discussed the old practice of exogamy (marriage across clans) among Somalis. I'll quote @Factz as I'm sure he has access.