First mention of "harari"

[Somali_patriotic]

It's futile and worthless to argue with you.

You're moving so desperate lil bro, should stop coping and accept it.
Ask anyone here who "it's futile and worthless" to argue with, lol. I'm open minded unlike you who made lying about somalis his work
Shaqao la'an 50yo xabashi

The fact that you don't know Hubat is in the same zone as Zaka shows you don't have the intellectual capacity to effectively engage in this topic.

Prove it, you became confident after @Step a side comment, btw he knows that somalis built all what i claimed they built
So Calm down bro.

You are cherry-picking and selectively choosing passages while disregarding their context to further advance your outrageous claims. Why are you quoting random passages in French? Why don't you quote the sources in English?

They're primary sources of explorers and such who visited the city, why do you bubble before understanding what is it about?
There's no "cherry" picking here blud, Can you refute the primary sources of the explorers who visited the city and said majority of it's inhabitants are somalis?
I've quoted several different explorers of different time lines to prove my point, why don't you use your "critical analysis eyes" type stuff and realise majority of the inhabitants were somalis? Or you just don't like that fact?

You are always disregarding academic sources and claiming that the statements of intellectual scholars are historical revisionism. By using your own logic, I could simply disregard all your sources. Your thinking processes and cognitive reflection are extremely strange and bizarre.

No, i don't disagree.
Shame on you to say that! what i actually do is check their citation (the primary source they quoted) and compare it to what they wrote.
The people you quote such as Richard pankhurst create their own stories lol, you like to quote him
Why don't you check his citations?
My thinking processes and cognitive reflection aren't strange nor bizarre at all, they're normal.
On the other hand you seem to be suffering from some kind of psychological disorder. Ilahi ha ku cafiyo.

Emir Nur Mujahid built a wall around Harar as a protective barrier and to keep the town safe

Yes the somali man who built the walls to keep oromos out.

The name of the wall isn't of Somali origin. Jugol is a synonym for the land of the indigenous Harari people.

Get me any historical record mentioning the walls by the name "Jugol" primary source, the name doesn't prove shiet. It might've got popularised during late 19th century by the so-called Hararis (modern hararis)

Somali hoteps claim Emir Nur was Marehan and built the wall.

Idc what his qabiil was, he was a somali.
If he wasn't somali, what was he?! A harari?!
But he literally created the ethnicity??!!
Did emir nur die and reborn to become harari after he created the identity?!!

The presence of Somali caravan traders in Harar implies that Somalis built and founded the historic city. Beautiful logic.

Beautiful logic, but that was never my logic nor what i wrote.
Stop putting words into my mouth,
You have clearly demonstrated that you don't have any moral regard for intellectual honesty. You don't have the intellectual capacity to analyze or comprehend historical sources with a critical eye.
I suggest you go re-read what i wrote and get educated.

The Walashma rulers were Arabs.

You're Trying so hard to discredit somalis for everything, keep the coping mechanism up

I am arguing with the same fool who couldn't even tell me what the word Malasay means in the Somali language, but apparently Malasay were all Somalis.

Here again lying about me, I've never claimed Malassay is a somali name nor did i say all Malassay were somalis.
Majority of them were tho, did you know that the Malassay were called temur Which's a name for somali people??!!
You'll avoid that aswell.
From what I've wrote in my previous responses,
You didn't refute a single point but still managed to cope so hard.
Nga if you're here to have fruitful discussions I'm ready.
Stop being intellectually dishonest first.

 

[Khaemwaset]

I really have no idea why people shill the Muslim Ethiosemites like this. The Futuh doesn't even mention the supposedly important Argobba once lol

They try make the claim people like argobba are descended from Harla who they say are ethio semitic. Funny cause the only modern clans that can actually trace their lineage to Harla are Somali. Such as us Issa who have some sub clans that trace back to Harla tribes. But where are these records of "ethiosemetic" people tracing back to Harla.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Semetic-speaking groups founded and built the Adal and Ifat kingdoms. The Walashma rulers were Arabs. I am arguing with the same fool who couldn't even tell me what the word Malasay means in the Somali language, but apparently Malasay were all Somalis.

The majority of the Malasay would follow the Somalis in deserting the Imam's army if their demands weren't met, despite only some of them agreeing with the Somalis.
there are only two conclusions you can draw from this;

1. The majority of Malasay were Somali
2. Somalis have a disproportionate amount of influence over the imam's elite core

 

[Step a side]

The Malassay were Somali. German historian Manfredd Kropp who wrote extensively about Ethiopian history dedicated a book on who the Malassay were. He states in his book that they were mostly Somali.

 

[HabarSteven12]

The majority of the Malasay would follow the Somalis in deserting the Imam's army if their demands weren't met, despite only some of them agreeing with the Somalis.
there are only two conclusions you can draw from this;

1. The majority of Malasay were Somali
2. Somalis have a disproportionate amount of influence over the imam's elite core

View attachment 304895

Your conclusion lacks historical objectivity. It's important to put things into context. After a resounding victory by Imam Ahmed's forces against the Solomomic army, some Somali clans were not interested in continuing further military expeditions against Abyssinia. They were exhausted and wanted to return home with the vast booty they had collected.

Certain Somali clans saw it as an opportunity to desert the army of Imam Ahmed and return home with the vast booty they had attained. By the way, the entire Malasay unit didn't agree with what the Somalis had recommended. The passage says only some agreed. Some members of the Malasay unit were tempted to also desert and return home with the vast and rich booty they had attained.

Certain Somali clans assumed that if they deserted the army of Imam Ahmed, the Malasay would follow suit, leaving Imam Ahmed vulnerable. People were physically exhausted, and some lost the morale to continue Jihad against Ethiopia. Imam Ahmed's forces also encountered many hardships during their military expeditions against Abyssinia. Some died due to famine and disease. Some people died due to the cold weather in the Highlands. They suffered from hunger for many days.

Somali warriors fled during the battle of Shimbure Kure. Had the Imam Ahmed or Malasay been Somali, would the futuh, which otherwise praises the Imam at every turn, mention these disconcerting details of the imam's kin?

In the futuh, it was discussed that Imam Ahmed arranged his army into three regiments based on their ethnic identity. Accordingly, the left wing was made up of Somalis under the leadership of Mattan. Notable academic scholars such as Mohamed Hassen, Meri Wolde, and Duri Mohamed ascribe the Malasay to semetic speakers. Most reputable academic sources do not allude to Malasay being Somali.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Another text wall from @HabarSteven12

Your conclusion lacks historical objectivity. It's important to put things into context. After a resounding victory by Imam Ahmed's forces against the Solomomic army, some Somali clans were not interested in continuing further military expeditions against Abyssinia. They were exhausted and wanted to return home with the vast booty they had collected.

Certain Somali clans saw it as an opportunity to desert the army of Imam Ahmed and return home with the vast booty they had attained. By the way, the entire Malasay unit didn't agree with what the Somalis had recommended. The passage says only some agreed. Some members of the Malasay unit were tempted to also desert and return home with the vast and rich booty they had attained.

but why were Somalis so confident that the Malasay abandoned the Imam and followed a bunch of nomads that are completely outside of Adal society according to you?

Certain Somali clans assumed that if they deserted the army of Imam Ahmed, the Malasay would follow suit, leaving Imam Ahmed vulnerable. People were physically exhausted, and some lost the morale to continue Jihad against Ethiopia. Imam Ahmed's forces also encountered many hardships during their military expeditions against Abyssinia. Some died due to famine and disease. Some people died due to the cold weather in the Highlands. They suffered from hunger for many days.

Somalis didn't deserted the battle, they retreated after it became unbearable, they were still described as martyrs alongside the non-Somali combatants

Somali warriors fled during the battle of Shimbure Kure. Had the Imam Ahmed or Malasay been Somali, would the futuh, which otherwise praises the Imam at every turn, mention these disconcerting details of the imam's kin?

the Somali clan leaders were literally praised for their bravery in the battle and mentioned one of them as "the Brother-in-law of Imam Ahmed". did you even read futuh Al-habasha?

In the futuh, it was discussed that Imam Ahmed arranged his army into three regiments based on their ethnic identity. Accordingly, the left wing was made up of Somalis under the leadership of Mattan. Notable academic scholars such as Mohamed Hassen, Meri Wolde, and Duri Mohamed ascribe the Malasay to semetic speakers. Most reputable academic sources do not allude to Malasay being Somali.

you're repeating the same point over and over again. show us that Arab Faqih made a distinction between the Somali language and Abyssinian languages. in his work. we can talk about "Ethiosemitic this and that" later.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

you're repeating the same point over and over again. show us that Arab Faqih made a distinction between the Somali language and Abyssinian languages. in his work. we can talk about "Ethiosemitic this and that" later.

Exactly, @HabarSteven12 tell us the exact page and line where the Faqih made any distinction between Somali and “Abyssinian” languages. This Ethio-Semitic nonsense doesn’t have much backing to begin with and can prob be broken if more linguistic research is done in the Horn.

 

[Step a side]

Hobat is a Somali word. Hobat means the steep valley. Hobat preceded harar, hobat existed during ifat times (1285 to 1415) and supported an alliance with ifat dynasty which was weak and pro ethiopian for many centuries. Thats why hobat and other provincial regions only supported ifat at arms length, it was dominated by a weak urban class of merchant rulers in zeyla with the exception of 1 or 2 great ifat leaders. Only when ethiopians finally sacked zeyla and the ifat leaders fled to yemen did the walashma family of ifat decide to regroup and change their approach. By 1415 ifat was pretty much done for. This was when harar started to grow as a new hub but it was still not a capital yet, even imam mahfuz of karanle was still governing from zeyla though he was originally from harar. Same with Garad Abun who also ruled from Zeila. Only by ahmed gureys time i believe they moved the capital to harar in 1520s