Debating Religion with Athiests on SSpot be like......
- Thread starter Do-I-Look-Somali
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Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
Fix your grammar. You can prove Allah exists, but you can't prove the unicorn exists. Try to refute the Quran, and then I'll believe you.
"That's a subjective opinion, and has nothing to do with the belief of others. Even science can't prove if God is real, because science can only rely on what it can see, and test. Belief in God is what we believe, and"
This is true.
"... we can prove that belief with what was given to us which is the Quran."
This is false.
"We Muslims believe Allah was always there."
I said that Allah doesn't explain anything logically. Simply believing that he was first is fine but no one can conclude that from any OBSERVATION or REASON. This is the important part.
"He has no beginning or ending therefore our small human minds wouldn't be able to comprehend that."
Okay... if you want to be satisfied with that you can be.
"No sir. Even a camera has a creator."
Are you actually trying to argue for the existence of god logically? Think clearly, you can't do this.
"But Allah isn't a human nor is he a creator. He was always there."
You mean to say 'nor is he a created' right? Allah is supposed to be a creator yes.
"Islam, and Darwinism have nothing to do with each other."
I don't think that they do. I pointed out that monotheism generally and tawheed in Islam serve a similar social function. I don't think you comprehend what's being said. A green ball and a green leaf aren't the same, one may even say 'they have nothing to do with each other' but both are green. The similarity is being made with respect to a particular aspect of the whole. Try to understand that.
"Also what deitys?"
Deities that human beings have worshiped. You can look at the history of natural religion to see this or any anthropological literature on religion.
"Qabil is just a lineage, and has nothing to do with Islam. Islam is a religion, and a way of life. A qabil is just a clan you adhere to."
I know...
"How does the language of the Quran coming down in Arabic make it an act of Arab supremacy? That makes no intellectual sense."
I didn't say how it came down, that would be an accident of history, but the restriction against translation is what makes Islam remains an arabic possession. Don't ask how when I tell you how. You're being incredulous about this for no good reason.
"The Arabic language is very beautiful, and the Quran is very easy to memorize in Arabic. We Somalis are very lucky, because Arabic is in the same afro-asiatic tree. We Somalis share similar words with the Arabs. Millions of ppl who are not arabic have memorized the Quran, and one of the miracles of the Quran is how easy it can be memorized."
Okay.
"Somalis claim to be descendent from Arabs due to political reasons, and nothing else."
This is what my point is based on. If you reread it from this premise it will make more sense.
"What's happening in the middle East, and most Muslim countries is the affect of the colonial, and imprealistic age."
Most of what is happening is but not Somalia. You think colonialism is why we went to war against each other and can't rebuild today? Stop blaming other people. That doesn't mean I think it's religion that causes these problems, but religion and arab supremacist ideas in our clan conceptions are an important part of clan pride and divisiveness. Clan pride is the kerosone to which scarcity in resources is the ember fueling this ridiculous violence. Both religion and qabil are delusions we can do without.
"Plus we Muslims have went astray from what was given to us, and Allah told us when we go astray, harsh punishments will follow,"
You can't be serious...
This is true.
"... we can prove that belief with what was given to us which is the Quran."
This is false.
"We Muslims believe Allah was always there."
I said that Allah doesn't explain anything logically. Simply believing that he was first is fine but no one can conclude that from any OBSERVATION or REASON. This is the important part.
"He has no beginning or ending therefore our small human minds wouldn't be able to comprehend that."
Okay... if you want to be satisfied with that you can be.
"No sir. Even a camera has a creator."
Are you actually trying to argue for the existence of god logically? Think clearly, you can't do this.
"But Allah isn't a human nor is he a creator. He was always there."
You mean to say 'nor is he a created' right? Allah is supposed to be a creator yes.
"Islam, and Darwinism have nothing to do with each other."
I don't think that they do. I pointed out that monotheism generally and tawheed in Islam serve a similar social function. I don't think you comprehend what's being said. A green ball and a green leaf aren't the same, one may even say 'they have nothing to do with each other' but both are green. The similarity is being made with respect to a particular aspect of the whole. Try to understand that.
"Also what deitys?"
Deities that human beings have worshiped. You can look at the history of natural religion to see this or any anthropological literature on religion.
"Qabil is just a lineage, and has nothing to do with Islam. Islam is a religion, and a way of life. A qabil is just a clan you adhere to."
I know...
"How does the language of the Quran coming down in Arabic make it an act of Arab supremacy? That makes no intellectual sense."
I didn't say how it came down, that would be an accident of history, but the restriction against translation is what makes Islam remains an arabic possession. Don't ask how when I tell you how. You're being incredulous about this for no good reason.
"The Arabic language is very beautiful, and the Quran is very easy to memorize in Arabic. We Somalis are very lucky, because Arabic is in the same afro-asiatic tree. We Somalis share similar words with the Arabs. Millions of ppl who are not arabic have memorized the Quran, and one of the miracles of the Quran is how easy it can be memorized."
Okay.
"Somalis claim to be descendent from Arabs due to political reasons, and nothing else."
This is what my point is based on. If you reread it from this premise it will make more sense.
"What's happening in the middle East, and most Muslim countries is the affect of the colonial, and imprealistic age."
Most of what is happening is but not Somalia. You think colonialism is why we went to war against each other and can't rebuild today? Stop blaming other people. That doesn't mean I think it's religion that causes these problems, but religion and arab supremacist ideas in our clan conceptions are an important part of clan pride and divisiveness. Clan pride is the kerosone to which scarcity in resources is the ember fueling this ridiculous violence. Both religion and qabil are delusions we can do without.
"Plus we Muslims have went astray from what was given to us, and Allah told us when we go astray, harsh punishments will follow,"
You can't be serious...
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
"This is false."
Prove its false. Refute it.
"I said that Allah doesn't explain anything logically. Simply believing that he was first is fine but no one can conclude that from any OBSERVATION or REASON. This is the important part."
Allah explains everything logically. Show me something He hasn't fully explained. I'll even let you quote your favorite anti Islam bigots. You can't just say it doesn't make sense without bringing up what doesn't make sense to you. That's called being disingenuous, because it shows you haven't looked into the Quran.
"Are you actually trying to argue for the existence of god logically? Think clearly, you can't do this."
I was making a point to a claim you brought up. You said nothing has a creator, and I responded back by telling you a camera has a creator. Allah doesn't need a creator when He said he has always been there. Like I said before. Your small human mind can't comprehend that.
"You mean to say 'nor is he a created' right? Allah is supposed to be a creator yes."
Yes Allah is the creator of all things. I already told you he wasn't created in the sentence before that.
"I don't think that they do. I pointed out that monotheism generally and tawheed in Islam serve a similar social function. I don't think you comprehend what's being said. A green ball and a green leaf aren't the same, one may even say 'they have nothing to do with each other' but both are green. The similarity is being made with respect to a particular aspect of the whole. Try to understand that."
This is the true definition of mental gymnastics. There are many things wrong with the statements you made here. Monotheism is a form of religion that only believes in one God. Since Chritianity claim monotheism, we Muslims call ourselves Islamic monotheists, because we free ourselves from them. Tawhid is believing in Allah alone. A green ball, and a green leaf only share the same color, but are not the same thing, and this literally has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Stay on point young man.
"Deities that human beings have worshiped. You can look at the history of natural religion to see this or any anthropological literature on religion."
In Islam we don't believe in multiple deities. We only believe in Allah, and worship Allah. That's the meaning of tawhid. Pure Islamic monotheism, and also this has nothing to do with the topic. Please stay on point. Right now we are discussing the validity of Islam. Not other forms of religious literature.
"I didn't say how it came down, that would be an accident of history, but the restriction against translation is what makes Islam remains an arabic possession. Don't ask how when I tell you how. You're being incredulous about this for no good reason."
You're confused. Translating it from Arabic would make it lose some of its actual meaning, because of the complex nature of Arabic. Translations do exist, but the Arabic always written right beside the translation. Also the Arabic isn't a problem at all. It's very easy to memorize, and again this doesn't prove the validity of Islam. We are going in circles. I hate repetitive debates, and going in circles. You need to prove your points.
"Most of what is happening is but not Somalia. You think colonialism is why we went to war against each other and can't rebuild today? Stop blaming other people. That doesn't mean I think it's religion that causes these problems, but religion and arab supremacist ideas in our clan conceptions are an important part of clan pride and divisiveness. Clan pride is the kerosone to which scarcity in resources is the ember fueling this ridiculous violence. Both religion and qabil are delusions we can do without."
Bro only 2 clans say they are from the arabs. That is the darood, and the Isaaq. Raxanweyne, and I think dir never even mentioned they are from them. Raxanweyne have never claimed they are from the Arabs, and I don't even think there is a problem if they do say they are from them. Lineage has nothing to do with the religion. Qabils beef over stupidity, and most of Somalia is realizing how stupid it is killing each other over Qabils. You still haven't even proved how Islam is not valid lol. You keep jumping topics, and dodging my actual questions. Please stick to Islam. Also use facts instead of opinions.
"You can't be serious..."
I'm very serious. Most of the problems facing Muslim countries arose when we accepted the imperalist idea, and let go of our true Islamic governments. This is fact. If you actually knew about Somali history, you would know this. You are very confused in trying to prove your claims, but again like I said many times before you haven't proved any of your accusations against Islam. Prove its false. I'm headed to bed now, but I expect you to actually give me some facts when I wake up.
Sorry my man. You don't seem to be able to comprehend very simple things so I'm not going to continue.
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
Every athiests famous last words after they were proved wrong. It's all good man. I enjoyed the short discussion.
disprove the Invisible Pink Unicorn and i will disprove allah .
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
Bruh...
chill with the retardation.Interestingly, I was watching this video a couple of days ago about baby sea turtles that just hatched in a hole off a beach. What I found particularly interesting was, how did the sea turtles know what an ocean was as soon as they hatched (without having seen it)? And how did the baby sea turtles primarily know, they had to go in the ocean?
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any scientific answers apart from biological hard-wiring/pre-programmed, which really lays claim, that there is Creator Subhanallah.
ramadan mubarak btw guys
example
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any scientific answers apart from biological hard-wiring/pre-programmed, which really lays claim, that there is Creator Subhanallah.
ramadan mubarak btw guys
example
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literally they are the sameBruh...
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
No... They are not. A mythical Norse creature has no backing. Allah has given us countless proofs He exists. Refute the Quran, and then I'll believe you. You still haven't done that. An illogical fallacy doesn't disprove anything lol. Try harder buddy.literally they are the same
a god that failed twice to create a religion == wise and powerful
and his messagener is a psychopath with schizophrenia and is a pedofile who cross dresses .
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
Failed? You must not know history. Allah never fails. Even at the time of the Prophet (SAW) there were Unitarian Christians, and Jews who followed the true path of there religions. Most of them converted to Islam, because their books prophesied the coming of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Islam, and the Quran are the truest most pure form of Monotheism, and that is fact. Muslims only Worship one God, and the Quran has never been changed. You still haven't proved on how islam is false, and how God isn't real. You only resorted to using cheap insults. Sadly I can't disrespect you, because it is Ramadan. Allah told us that we can only marry after pubery. If the Prophet (SAW) is a pedophile then so is everyone in history lol. This insult of the Prophet being a pedophile only came about in recent times. Not even the enemies of the Prophet (SAW) used it against him during ancient time. Many ppl married women who were young. You must've forgotten about the king's of England, France, and even Russia. Even today in new Hampshire you can Marry a 12 year old with the parents consent. This allegation is useless, and is just a cheap shot from the enemies of Islam who can't handle the rapid growth of our religion in their countries.a god that failed twice to create a religion == wise and powerful
and his messagener is a psychopath with schizophrenia and is a pedofile who cross dresses .
As for the allegations of cross dressing you got from Sam shamone (who has been refuted every time). Here is a rebuttal explaining that Hadith. https://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2011/01/prophet-muhammad-cross-dress-lie.html?m=1
monotheism predates Islam and there are many monotheistic religions and every other one claims its the purest monotheistic religion .
I don't care if the quran been changed or not there are errors inconsists and contradictions which leads me to believe it being man made and to equate it Harry potter which is much better in my opinion.
to your point of royals from Europe and Russia marrying underage children well he is in good company among pedos.
in regards to cross dressing :
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammad_and_Cross-Dressing
am still waiting for you to disprove my god the invisible pink unicorn calling it an illogical fallacy is not disproving it .
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
"monotheism predates Islam and there are many monotheistic religions and every other one claims its the purest monotheistic religion ."
I never said it was the first. I addressed your first claim stating Allah failed. I told you both the Torah, and Bible prophesied the coming of the Prophet (SAW), and that there were already Unitarian Christians, and Jews who converted to Islam as soon as news of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) coming reached them. Read what I say carefully. Don't make this repetitive.
"I don't care if the quran been changed or not there are errors inconsists and contradictions which leads me to believe it being man made and to equate it Harry potter which is much better in my opinion."
Again here's another subjective opinion. The Quran has never been changed, and the Bible, and the Torah were both changed a couple centuries after their creation, and are still being altered today. State your contradictions instead of saying there are contradictions. That makes you look disingenuous.
"to your point of royals from Europe and Russia marrying underage children well he is in good company among pedos."
Again your allegations prove nothing. What was normal back then, and not even accused of back then doesn't affect the truth lol. Your logic means every historic person back in ancient times were pedos. Even historians, and theologians disagree with this baseless accusation.
Age of Consent throughout history has usually coincided with the age of puberty although at sometimes it has been as early as seven…
The Romantradition served as the base for Christian Europe as well as
the Christian Church itself which generally, essentially based upon biological development, set it at12 or 14 but continued to set the absolute minimum at seven.
In the pastcentury there has been a tendency to raise the age of consent but the reasons for the change have not always been clear and the issue has been further complicated by the reluctance of many contemporary historians to recognize what the actualage of consent in the past has been. This failure has distorted the importance of biology on age of consent in the past
http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=XH16E3FKBF7Q9P3MKLPC82LUJNKC41U5&ID=87429
"in regards to cross dressing :
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammad_and_Cross-Dressing"
Stop reiterating Sam shamone lol. I already showed you a rebuttal that explains that Hadith. Weak missionary tactics don't work. Besides arent you athiest? https://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2011/01/prophet-muhammad-cross-dress-lie.html?m=1
"am still waiting for you to disprove my god the invisible pink unicorn calling it an illogical fallacy is not disproving it ."
I already did. I told you that a Norse mythological creation has no backing, and both the ancient Norse, and Greek religions were thrown away. That's what makes it an illogical fallacy. You should be smarter than that. I've never debated with anyone who uses that as a comparison lol. Keep trying harder. Also if you rely on science, you would never know if God exists. Science can't prove, or disprove God. Science can only prove what it can see. Do you believe in the multiverse? Lol
simulacrum
Neo-Darwinist
When theists extrapolate from nature in order to give their intelligent design argument some credibility, How come they don't accept it when other people use the same method of extrapolation as well? For instance, the whole survival of fittest and social Darwinism that Herbert Spencer promulgated in the 19th century and which subsequently inspired the likes of Hitler, who's to say they're "incorrect"for making those definite conclusions about the human condition? I don't see no other way than the following : Either the extrapolation method is a gross simpification of reality and that nature is far more subtle and nuanced than our tiny brains can comprehend or it has some validity and that would mean that the intelligent design argument is plausible as well as Herbert Spencers social darwinism and many other concepts by the mere use of extracting analogies from nature ( the essence of deriving an ought from is). I personally think the theist and as well as Herbert Spencer are holding an extreme position about reality and the human condition , based on little to no data.
I will give you this one . I cant be responding with essays , I was trolling about the insults my goal was to trigger
happy ramandan.
I just want to hit on the notion of events here, the view of time in current general relativity is that time and effects of time is inherently ingrained within the universe.This is why you have Gravitational fields affecting time , As well as speed affecting time.Obviously if time is part of the universe this implies that time didnt exist without the universe.Hence the concept of "first" and "last" hold no meaning when referring to "pre universe".Infact most prominent atheists use this to claim that the universe could have just come into existence as there was no such thing as time.
The concept of Allah is such that he exists .In the frame of the universe he has "always" existed (as time came along with the universe.)
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