Then why mention Salafism? You really think a million Uyghur Muslims in interment camps are all foaming at the mouth terrorists eager to wage jihad against the Chinese government?
China has passed a new law that seeks to "Sinicize" Islam within the next five years.
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@CaliSomali
I have explained how it got to this situation. Salafism was the root cause and before Salafism, though the Muslims lived under hardships during Communism, but not as bad to this scale. When there is a crisis situation, one studies the root causes to understand it and to solve/overcome it.
You yourself (many here too) criticised Salafism within the Somali context and vowed to eradicate them from Somalia, how would you have done it differently than the Chinese authorities?
I don’t think locking up thousands of people and brainwashing their children to abandon their religion is a good thing. I would never advocate that against Christian or atheist Somalis.
The Uyghurs live in their own region in China. The Chinese government brought the extremism on themselves when they decided to clamp down on their community (like they did to Tibet) and ethnically cleanse them of their ancestral lands by sending in Han Chinese to flood the area.
Salafism comes from two things: chaos and instability. Somalia has Salafists that were born after the collapse of the federal government. China made their own by ethnically cleansing another race of people from their own lands and religion.
You're making it about salfisim when it's a human crisis if you hate salfisim that's fine but don't to push your narrative when their are people suffering
We are moving the topic from criticizing the ccp to talking about salfisim.
great job @AussieHustler@government
Yes, it is a human crisis but please don't absolve the Wahabis the role they played here.
@CaliSomali
You haven't answered my question. Since you hate Salafis and vowed to remove the ideology from Somalia, how will you do it?
As I indicated at my posts above, Salafism penetrated China in the early 1990's and the radicals takfiri elements are second generation Salafis.
We are moving the topic from criticizing the ccp to talking about salfisim.
@government
Here you are again having a fit about the "Salafi Sali7een". Give up Sxb and admit nothing positive comes out wherever this Saudi ideology invades like a deadly bacteria.
Getting rid of Salafism in Somalia is not that complex tbh.
1. You need a strong federal government and strong president like the late Siad Barre. Someone like Farmaajo is weak and he cannot handle when little "autonomous" states pimp slap him. Siad Barre would lock up those worthless cretins to rot. Someone like him is badly needed.
2. Somalia is a poverty stricken shithole. The economy must be improved so people have something to actually live for and be proud of.
3. Greatly equipped military. Foreign forces and arms embargos are there to make sure our army stays weak so those filthy al-shabaab killers stay strong.
4. f*ck those gulf countries. Everyone knows they're the ones funding al-shabaab and other terrorist organizations elsewhere. Cutting ties with them is the best thing to do.
5. Arabization needs to end. In my opinion, Somali culture > imported ayrab culture
Less of this:
And more of this:
Getting rid of Salafism in Somalia is not that complex tbh.
1. You need a strong federal government and strong president like the late Siad Barre. Someone like Farmaajo is weak and he cannot handle when little "autonomous" states pimp slap him. Siad Barre would lock up those worthless cretins to rot. Someone like him is badly needed.
2. Somalia is a poverty stricken shithole. The economy must be improved so people have something to actually live for and be proud of.
3. Greatly equipped military. Foreign forces and arms embargos are there to make sure our army stays weak so those filthy al-shabaab killers stay strong.
4. f*ck those gulf countries. Everyone knows they're the ones funding al-shabaab and other terrorist organizations elsewhere. Cutting ties with them is the best thing to do.
5. Arabization needs to end. In my opinion, Somali culture > imported ayrab culture
Less of this:
And more of this:
@CaliSomali
I'm not criticising your theory of removing Salafism from Somalia and I also agree with you restoring the Somali cultural dress-code, but let's look at the two major points you mentioned, 1) a strong leader like the late Siad Barre and 2) a "mighty army". The late leader has murdered dozens of Salafi "sheikhs", arrested many more who opposed his policies and was very tough with what is preached in the mosques and said on the streets and that is why most Imams towed his line because they were frightened for their safety. You want this president to do the same, arrest and kill all Salafis who oppose him. How many millions of Somalis are Salafis today? How many will oppose him to be killed and arrested? The deaths and incarceration of Salafis will reach hundreds of thousands. How is that different than what China is right now doing? Some will argue that this suggestion is worse than the Chinese "solution" because it will be proportional to a holocaust?
Never mind about the army because they will obliterate villages, cities and towns who oppose the "strong leader".
The problem with your argument is that you’re conflating normal Sunni Islam with Salafism, which wasn’t in Somalia at the time. Radical Islam was not introduced to Somalia until the civil war came into fruition. There was no Salafism in Somalia when Siad Barre was in power, he just hated religion because he had a God complex and he didn’t like Muslim leaders reminding him of all the shady clan backstabbing and suppression he was doing to benefit his own people. And Al-Shabaab arose long after he had fled the capitol anyway, so that’s not an argument.
The average Somali would not overthrow a secular and stable government. We were fine with Siad Barre’s rule until the economy turned to shit and he started genociding people in the thousands.
That’s why I said a stable economy and strong leadership brings moderate Islam in the populace. A fractured and overly authoritarian one breeds radicalism. It’s as simple as that.
@CaliSomali
You've a potential as a stand-up comedian. I mentioned secularism while I was in Somalia and you should've seen the faces of those who were around me and they hate Alshabaab and are fighting them daily.
Forget about Shafici or Sufi, the two most dominant sects in Somalia are Salafis and Iqwaan (Muslim Brotherhood). The Salafis are divided into Jadiid and Jihadi (Alshabab). The Salafis are supported by Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E, while the Iqwaanis are supported by Turkey and Qatar. How many regions of Somalia did they divide? If there is ever any ideological sectarian war between these countries, the initial theatre it would be staged will be Somalia.
"secular and stable government".
Lmaoooo. Aussie, are you being this obtuse on purpose?@CaliSomali
You've a potential as a stand-up comedian. I mentioned secularism while I was in Somalia and you should've seen the faces of those who were around me and they hate Alshabaab and are fighting them daily.
Forget about Shafici or Sufi, the two most dominant sects in Somalia are Salafis and Iqwaan (Muslim Brotherhood). The Salafis are divided into Jadiid and Jihadi (Alshabab). The Salafis are supported by Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E, while the Iqwaanis are supported by Turkey and Qatar. How many regions of Somalia did they divide? If there is ever any ideological sectarian war between these countries, the initial theatre it would be staged will be Somalia.
"secular government".
:siilaanyolaugh:
Read the sentence I wrote after that. What I say is the truth:
“We were fine with Siad Barre’s rule until the economy turned to shit and he started genociding people in the thousands.”
I think you’re being a little dense on purpose. Your trolling skills are a true work of art I must say. I’ve never seen someone completely disregard 90% of the stuff I write to harp on one sentence and turn it around on some other tangent.
But is it so hard to believe in a moderate form of Somali Islam? We’ve had that for hundreds of years. Remember that the recent form of Salafism came after the civil war sxb. We were never hardline Muslims. We can become that once again through a stable economy and a Somali cultural Renaissance.
I think I’m gonna turn in for the night, but thanks for the discussion. I still think you’re a smart guy Aussie, you just seem to be even more pessimistic about Somalia than me, and I always refer to our country as a shithole. All I can say is that you really know how to push them buttons.
@CaliSomali
Sxb, if you want me to address the elephant in your story of a strong leader like the late leader, it would never happen now or in the near future because the global politics that brought him and kept him in power are no longer there. The Cold War is over and no major power has any appetite in installing, protecting and fighting for a dictator like during the Cold War. Therefore, forget about a strong leader. Coupled with that, no Somali clan is ready to support such a leadership if the boss isn’t from their clan. Trust amongst the Somali clans of a strong leader is dead and buried. Farmaajo would like to be one but the clans won’t give him that kind of a power. It’s not his fault.
Secondly, in a decade or so, if Somalia’s Constitution is declared shariah based and a stricter version than the one in Iran emerges, I wouldn’t be surprised. That kind of a Sharia-Law declaration is what could only unite these two major sects I mentioned above.
A brotherly unsolicited advice. Go and visit Hamar now before we become the Islamic Republic of Somalia.
Sxb, if you want me to address the elephant in your story of a strong leader like the late leader, it would never happen now or in the near future because the global politics that brought him and kept him in power are no longer there. The Cold War is over and no major power has any appetite in installing, protecting and fighting for a dictator like during the Cold War. Therefore, forget about a strong leader. Coupled with that, no Somali clan is ready to support such a leadership if the boss isn’t from their clan. Trust amongst the Somali clans of a strong leader is dead and buried. Farmaajo would like to be one but the clans won’t give him that kind of a power. It’s not his fault.
Secondly, in a decade or so, if Somalia’s Constitution is declared shariah based and a stricter version than the one in Iran emerges, I wouldn’t be surprised. That kind of a Sharia-Law declaration is what could only unite these two major sects I mentioned above.
A brotherly unsolicited advice. Go and visit Hamar now before we become the Islamic Republic of Somalia.
Look at Rwanda. One man changed the entire country for the better after a genocide. I truly believe we only need one person’s spark to change up our system of government to make a less corrupt and stable one instead.
Farmaajo is weak. He signs Somalia away to Ethiopia and China all the time. He is clearly not someone who cares about the best interests of the nation.
Siad Barre’s gained power first by staging a coup. That came before the Ethiopian-Somali war and he managed to keep Somalia in pretty good condition once he was there. I’m not exactly saying that someone needs to do that again, but it’s clear that government overhaul is possible in Somalia. Barre already did it. So why can’t someone else?
I still have a little glimmer of hope in our country sxb. But I do understand where you’re coming from. It’s very possible that we may continue to regress and become Iran 2.0 in the coming years. Inshallah I want to move with my family back to Xamar in the near future, and hopefully something like that never happens. But I still acknowledge that it’s possible.
@CaliSomali
Sxb, I explained to you the conditions that gave rise and enabled Siad Barre become a "strong leader", they do not exist any longer and they will never exist looking by the current world global politics. That was the cold war politics and it ceased to exist. Ask Khadafi, one of it's latest victims. Secondly, let's not compare oranges and apples. Rwanda is supported by heavyweight evangelicals and big corporation bosses and American wealthy individuals whom felt a guilty conscious that the world have ignored them at times of greed need. Unlike Somalia with 55 clans clashing and changing alliances daily like kim kardishian changes knickers in a week, in Rwanda, you only have two major ethnic groups and it was a miracle that the Tutsis who were committed acts of genocide against them have won the war. The whole world sympathised with them and who would oppose such a leader from this ethnic group? He has proven to be a very shrewd, smart and worthy leader who has done for his country what no other leader in Africa is capable of doing and now is admired by his former foes, the Hut.us. He would have never achieved this feat without the support of the Americans. How do you compare it with Somalia? Somalia is heading to be the epicentre of a clash between the former two groups I mentioned above. Here is why?
Persian Gulf rivalries threaten to tear fragile Somalia apart, report warns.
For nearly 30 years, Somalia has been a weak, divided state threatening the stability of the Horn of Africa and the key international waterway leading to the Suez Canal.
International actors, including the United States and the African Union, which has thousands of peacekeepers in Somalia to bolster the government, have been trying to train the country's army, feed its people and keep it from falling into total chaos or into the hands of the Islamist group al-Shabab.
Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Turkey have also been among Somalia's most generous supporters. For years, Turkey was one of the biggest investors in Somalia — with its largest embassy abroad in Mogadishu — while the UAE paid and trained an anti-piracy force and other units of the Somali military.
But the year-old rivalry between these Middle Eastern powers is now threatening to destroy what gains have been made, according to a new report by the International Crisis Group.
Read the rest on;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-report/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fd5ba2330383
Sxb, I explained to you the conditions that gave rise and enabled Siad Barre become a "strong leader", they do not exist any longer and they will never exist looking by the current world global politics. That was the cold war politics and it ceased to exist. Ask Khadafi, one of it's latest victims. Secondly, let's not compare oranges and apples. Rwanda is supported by heavyweight evangelicals and big corporation bosses and American wealthy individuals whom felt a guilty conscious that the world have ignored them at times of greed need. Unlike Somalia with 55 clans clashing and changing alliances daily like kim kardishian changes knickers in a week, in Rwanda, you only have two major ethnic groups and it was a miracle that the Tutsis who were committed acts of genocide against them have won the war. The whole world sympathised with them and who would oppose such a leader from this ethnic group? He has proven to be a very shrewd, smart and worthy leader who has done for his country what no other leader in Africa is capable of doing and now is admired by his former foes, the Hut.us. He would have never achieved this feat without the support of the Americans. How do you compare it with Somalia? Somalia is heading to be the epicentre of a clash between the former two groups I mentioned above. Here is why?
Persian Gulf rivalries threaten to tear fragile Somalia apart, report warns.
For nearly 30 years, Somalia has been a weak, divided state threatening the stability of the Horn of Africa and the key international waterway leading to the Suez Canal.
International actors, including the United States and the African Union, which has thousands of peacekeepers in Somalia to bolster the government, have been trying to train the country's army, feed its people and keep it from falling into total chaos or into the hands of the Islamist group al-Shabab.
Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Turkey have also been among Somalia's most generous supporters. For years, Turkey was one of the biggest investors in Somalia — with its largest embassy abroad in Mogadishu — while the UAE paid and trained an anti-piracy force and other units of the Somali military.
But the year-old rivalry between these Middle Eastern powers is now threatening to destroy what gains have been made, according to a new report by the International Crisis Group.
Read the rest on;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-report/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fd5ba2330383
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Rorschach
...
You are a degenerate.
22 CIA asse... I mean fighters is a reason for forced internment on a populous NATIVE to that area of the world?
Throw in a a couple of Saudi donors to a few mosques (who have a global network) and all of a sudden there is some reasoning to their oppression?
I aM oNLy giVGinG CoNtext...
Let's see what other atrocities you can 'contextualise' in the spirit of undermining Islam.
@Rorschach
Sxb, I couldn’t fathom the rest of your post except that sentence. If you are a good believer, why insult me for my opinion? I apologise if I insulted your Salafi sect.
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