Buur Heybe Ancients

[land owner]

Hopefully we can get an abstract this year.

I feel like if we can get this buur heybe HG and maybe a pure proto nilote sample and run it we can get an almost perfect fit for somalis

 

[Prince Abubu]

What's the significance of these finds? What will we learn?

Are the Buur Heybe fossils related to this guy?

https://www.pnas.org/content/105/31/10693

 

[Apollo]

What's the significance of these finds? What will we learn?

Are the Buur Heybe fossils related to this guy?

https://www.pnas.org/content/105/31/10693

Nah, highly unlikely E-M293 is from pastoralist Red Sea Cushites, not (South) HOA hunter-gatherers like the Buur Heybe HGs. See this quote on wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-Z827#E-V1515 (V15V15 is the ancestral version of M293).

I personally think they will have paternal haplogroup E-V16/E-M281, which was detected in our honorable @Geeljire Sandheer.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Nah, highly unlikely E-M293 is from pastoralist Red Sea Cushites, not (South) HOA hunter-gatherers like the Buur Heybe HGs. See this quote on wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-Z827#E-V1515 (V15V15 is the ancestral version of M293).

I personally think they will have paternal haplogroup E-V16/E-M281, which was detected in our honorable @Geeljire Sandheer.

Were the Buur Heybe hunter-gatherers Cushites? Or simply ancient east-africans carrying cushitic y lineage due to admixture?

Who are the Red Sea Cushites? Ancestors of Somalis or Bejas/Afars?

 

[EDsomali]

Were the Buur Heybe hunter-gatherers Cushites? Or simply ancient east-africans carrying cushitic y lineage due to admixture?

Who are the Red Sea Cushites? Ancestors of Somalis or Bejas/Afars?

Buur Heybe preceded cushities by thousands of years.

The skeletal remains are dated 7000bp, earliest Cushitic evidence in Somalia is 5500bp.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Buur Heybe preceded cushities by thousands of years.

The skeletal remains are dated 7000bp, earliest Cushitic evidence in Somalia is 5500bp.

Let me rephrase the question: Are they likely to have substantial ancient Eurasian ancestry like the Cushitic-speakers (maybe from a preceding migration)?

Otherwise, I don't see how they could have the T-haplogroup E-V16/E-M281, like @Apollo said.

 

[EDsomali]

Let me rephrase the question: Are they likely to have substantial ancient Eurasian ancestry like the Cushitic-speakers (maybe from a preceding migration)?

Otherwise, I don't see how they could have the T-haplogroup E-V16/E-M281, like @Apollo said.

E-M281 is an African lineage. Don't see as to why they would need to have Eurasian admixture.

 

[EL LEETO]

Lads you got the habar awal dna??

 

[Prince Abubu]

E-M281 is an African lineage. Don't see as to why they would need to have Eurasian admixture.

I thought all E1b1b wasn't native to Africa, but the Afro-Asiatic marker?

 

[EDsomali]

I thought all E1b1b wasn't native to Africa, but the Afro-Asiatic marker?

E1b1b and it's descendents E-M281 and E-M35 originated in Africa and it's spread tied to ANA the population that admixed with Iberomaurasians and Natufians.

 

[Prince Abubu]

E1b1b and it's descendents E-M281 and E-M35 originated in Africa and it's spread tied to ANA the population that admixed with Iberomaurasians and Natufians.

ANA = Ancestral North African?

Was that an intermediate group between Iberomaurasians and Natufians or a basal group?

 

[EDsomali]

ANA = Ancestral North African?

Was that an intermediate group between Iberomaurasians and Natufians or a basal group?

Basal African group.

They split at the same time Nilote, Niger-Congo split.

 

[Apollo]

E1b1b and it's descendents E-M281 and E-M35 originated in Africa and it's spread tied to ANA the population that admixed with Iberomaurasians and Natufians.

I thought all E1b1b wasn't native to Africa, but the Afro-Asiatic marker?

E-M35 is (autosomally) the odd one out in the E group in that it is often associated with (South)West Eurasian autosomal admixture. IMO, I think it is because this group encountered M1, N1, R0, and U6 females early on at the transition phase between the late Paleolithic and early Neolithic (there's even mt N* found in archaic samples from Libya, likely in E-M35 carriers). E-M281/E-V16 & E-M329 (both Paleo HOA, non-AA) likely did not and remained in the Horn while E-M35 traveled more northwards and then back.

 

[Prince Abubu]

E-M35 is (autosomally) the odd one out in the E group in that it is often associated with (South)West Eurasian autosomal admixture. IMO, I think it is because this group encountered M1, N1, R0, and U6 females early on at the transition phase between the late Paleolithic and early Neolithic (there's even mt N* found in archaic samples from Libya, likely in E-M35 carriers). E-M281/E-V16 & E-M329 (both Paleo HOA, non-AA) likely did not and remained in the Horn while E-M35 traveled more northwards and then back.

1) So E-M35 went to North Africa and Levant, intermingled with the local populations then came back south into North East Africa and East Africa, bringing with it also a whole bunch of Eurasian MtDNA ancestry e.g. M1, N, R etc.?

2) I know Somalis are associated with E-V32, but what were the other Cushitic speakers associated with, particular the South Cushites?

3) So you're predicting these Buur Heybe people to be Ancestral East African with some hunter-gather San-like archaic African genes?

 

[Apollo]

1) So E-M35 went to North Africa and Levant, intermingled with the local populations then came back south into North East Africa and East Africa, bringing with it also a whole bunch of Eurasian MtDNA ancestry e.g. M1, N, R etc.?

2) I know Somalis are associated with E-V32, but what were the other Cushitic speakers associated with, particular the South Cushites?

3) So you're predicting these Buur Heybe people to be Ancestral East African with some hunter-gather San-like archaic African genes?

First part, yes more or less correct. Second part, South Cushites had E-V32 (confirmed by Prendergast et al. 2019) - the one with E-CTS3282 is an V32 subclade/alternative mutation name (use ISOGG's tree for confirmation), but it was not their dominant lineage, due to paternal bottlenecks in them E-M293 became the dominant one. E-M293 is not to be confused with E-M329, the latter is an Ethiopian hunter-gatherer lineage.

Usually in pastoralist groups only one or two paternal lineages become extremely dominant (see for example how E-M81 took off in Sahara Berbers or J-P58 in Arabian Bedouins), while in more agricultural groups (like Ethiopian highlanders or Egyptian farmers) a more diverse set of paternals remain. It's kinda odd, but that is how things seem to be apparently.

About the Buur Heybe, we have to wait and see, but I don't think they will have anything in common with the South African Khoisan. They are just local proto-Out-of-Africa people that never left the Horn basically. They will likely not be that close to modern Somalis either, similar to how modern Europeans are not close to the hunter-gatherers of their countries.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Is it possible that we partially descend from these ancient horners or we’re almost entirely from more northerly ancien EAfricans/Proto-nilotes and Proto-ANA ?

 

[Apollo]

Is it possible that we partially descend from these ancient horners or we’re almost entirely from more northerly ancien EAfricans/Proto-nilotes and Proto-ANA ?

I think it is around 8% to 12%. We shall see if my estimate is correct or not.

 

[BetterDaysAhead]

ARE THESE PEOPLE CUSHITICS?

 

[Arabsiyawi]

ARE THESE PEOPLE CUSHITICS?

No

 

[BetterDaysAhead]

No

WHAT ARE THEY?