Brunei to punish gay sex and adultery with death by stoning

Me being gay wasn't the only reason I no longer consider myself Muslim. There is a host of things I do not agree with. The concept of enteral damnation being number one on my list of reasons.

Around 78% of the world population is non-Muslim, of the percent that are Muslim how many of them do you think will go to heaven? That's billions of people who now end up in hell for eternity. What for? Most of our lives are spent sleeping, and trying to survive the day. There are little pockets of happiness for most of us who are fortunate enough to live in good countries but what about those unfortunate souls who barely make anything, who are born and die in poverty? All the wars throughout history, the natural disasters, the diseases, the injustice of it all.

In Islam, god can lead people astray or he can guide them. He can answer your prayers or ignore them. He can cause disasters upon a people. The concept of god putting his hand on a scale to help some and doom others is messed up.

The prophets. Some were fortunate enough to live among them and witness their 'miracles'. Why is it they were given proof of gods existence but we have to take it on faith.

If the goal is to live a good and moral life why must a believe in a specific god be the only way to be granted entry into heaven? Morality doesn't come from religion.
Where does morality come from then?
 

AIOPZ

Pan-Islamist
Me being gay wasn't the only reason I no longer consider myself Muslim. There is a host of things I do not agree with. The concept of enteral damnation being number one on my list of reasons.

Why is it I'm always hearing about the disapproval of spending the rest of your afterlife in hell but I'm never hearing about any sort of disagreement about spending your eternity in heaven? You can't just cherry-pick what you don't like about the religion and say it's not real. Allah (Glory Be to Him, the Exalted) takes account for every grain of good we do in this life as much as he takes account of every grain of evil. He is the All-Knowing and is fair to all.

Around 78% of the world population is non-Muslim, of the percent that are Muslim how many of them do you think will go to heaven? That's billions of people who now end up in hell for eternity. What for? Most of our lives are spent sleeping, and trying to survive the day. There are little pockets of happiness for most of us who are fortunate enough to live in good countries but what about those unfortunate souls who barely make anything, who are born and die in poverty? All the wars throughout history, the natural disasters, the diseases, the injustice of it all.

.

Allah (SWT) reveals his religion to all and gives everybody the opportunity to become Muslim; whether they choose to accept it or deny it is up to them. Yes, life is about survival but it's also about serving Allah (SWT) in every way you can because He (SWT) is your lord. How would humanity evolve and flourish if everyone was just concerned about feeding themselves? People would stab one another with apathetic disregard over loaves of bread. Thank Allah (SWT) for providing us with a moral compass. In this life, the poor and the needy are supplemented with charity through Zakat. Wars are a result of human evil, so that doesn't count. As for natural diasters and the like, Allah (SWT) gives us the ability to breathe and live--what more do you demand? Is that not sufficient? Did you expect for this dunya to be all rainbows, sunshine, and peppermint candy? How would we as a people have the opportunity to grow if we don't come across hardships? What lessons do we learn if we don't fail?

In Islam, god can lead people astray or he can guide them. He can answer your prayers or ignore them. He can cause disasters upon a people. The concept of god putting his hand on a scale to help some and doom others is messed up.

You're blessed with a choice, saaxiib--you get to choose either the path of good that Allah (SWT) has gracefully laid out for you or deny it arrogantly and risk eternal damnation. You may consider it to be "messed up", but that's entirely subjective. I can also claim that it's messed up that someone like Adolf Hitler shouldn't go to hell because he only killed 6 million Jews and that's not that bad of a sin to burn in hell for the entirety of time itself. What weight does that opinion carry? It's only based purely off my emotions and my own skewed moral compass, but what's that in comparison to the very book God (SWT) sent to Earth that's suppose to guide us?


The prophets. Some were fortunate enough to live among them and witness their 'miracles'. Why is it they were given proof of gods existence but we have to take it on faith.

Allah (SWT) sent down so many things to this world to help us find the true path. He sent us hundreds of Prophets and incredulous events (like the Islamization of the MENA and Central Asia regions in less than a century after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him)) to help us find the light when we needed it most. Honestly, if your very existence isn't enough to prove of the existence of Allah (SWT) and truth of Islam, then what is?
 
Would you rape, murder, steal, cheat people if you didn't have the Quran? Majority of people that is a no because it causes harm to others.
So to you anything that causes harm is wrong, right? Then is protected sex between siblings wrong? If we were to use your analogy then you shouldn't have any problem with that as long as they don't have kids:susp:.

Without objective morality cheating, lying and murdering could be justified and without god there can't be objective morality.
 

Aaegal

I have no proof, only whispers
Why is it I'm always hearing about the disapproval of spending the rest of your afterlife in hell but I'm never hearing about any sort of disagreement about spending your eternity in heaven? You can't just cherry-pick what you don't like about the religion and say it's not real. Allah (Glory Be to Him, the Exalted) takes account for every grain of good we do in this life as much as he takes account of every grain of evil. He is the All-Knowing and is fair to all.

I mention hell because the crimes do not fit the punishment. For a second grasp what eternal is. How you're okay with your fellow imperfect humans being tortured in the cruelest of ways for eternity is beyond me. I cannot ascribe to that dark an ideology. We are able to find it in our hearts to forgive those who have wronged us but God does not seem to have that sort of sympathy.

The reward of eternal happiness and life also isn't a just reward for simply bending the knee 5 times a day.


Allah (SWT) reveals his religion to all and gives everybody the opportunity to become Muslim; whether they choose to accept it or deny it is up to them. Yes, life is about survival but it's also about serving Allah (SWT) in every way you can because He (SWT) is your lord. How would humanity evolve and flourish if everyone was just concerned about feeding themselves? People would stab one another with apathetic disregard over loaves of bread. Thank Allah (SWT) for providing us with a moral compass. In this life, the poor and the needy are supplemented with charity through Zakat. Wars are a result of human evil, so that doesn't count. As for natural diasters and the like, Allah (SWT) gives us the ability to breathe and live--what more do you demand? Is that not sufficient? Did you expect for this dunya to be all rainbows, sunshine, and peppermint candy? How would we as a people have the opportunity to grow if we don't come across hardships? What lessons do we learn if we don't fail?

Majority of people follow the religion of their parents. Some break away from them. Others of different faith have the same level of conviction in their god as you do in yours, so why would they ever leave. There isn't much choice there when religion is closely tied to family and community where upon leaving means you become an outcast. There are also a myriad of life circumstances that make belief in any god impossible for a lot of people. You should not be ignoring that fact.

It's completely disingenuous of you to suggest without god people would be murdering each other for food. The world is more complicated than your black/white view of it.



You're blessed with a choice, saaxiib--you get to choose either the path of good that Allah (SWT) has gracefully laid out for you or deny it arrogantly and risk eternal damnation. You may consider it to be "messed up", but that's entirely subjective.


Yes I have a choice but your god is an interventionist, so it matters not.



Honestly, if your very existence isn't enough to prove of the existence of Allah (SWT) and truth of Islam, then what is?

My existence is not proof of god though...The thing about God is, you can't prove he is real and you can't prove he isn't.
 

Aaegal

I have no proof, only whispers
So to you anything that causes harm is wrong, right? Then is protected sex between siblings wrong? If we were to use your analogy then you shouldn't have any problem with that as long as they don't have kids:susp:.

Without objective morality cheating, lying and murdering could be justified and without god there can't be objective morality.

I'm not a philosopher so this is hard for me to answer. I have a sense of what is wrong and right and that doesn't come from god. I don't murder, cheat, or lie to others because I don't want those things to happen to me. You're probably thinking that concept stems from religion but it doesn't. Morality is subjective in a lot of ways as well. Being gay isn't objectively amoral... that comes your gods subjective view on it. Same with zina, drinking alcohol and so on.
 

Basra

LOVE is a product of Doqoniimo mixed with lust
Let Them Eat Cake
VIP
How did i miss this fiearch delightful debate? I am really ashamed walaahi or kinda bummed out that i missed the fun?


Hi Aaegal inaa moe
 

Timo Jareer and proud

2nd Emir of the Akh Right Movement
I'm not a philosopher so this is hard for me to answer. I have a sense of what is wrong and right and that doesn't come from god. I don't murder, cheat, or lie to others because I don't want those things to happen to me. You're probably thinking that concept stems from religion but it doesn't. Morality is subjective in a lot of ways as well. Being gay isn't objectively amoral... that comes your gods subjective view on it. Same with zina, drinking alcohol and so on.
Are you a Somalilander?
 

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