Bantu Expansion

Apollo

Staff Member
/Thread split from North African brother & others confront the Somali nationalist's hatred for Arabs

Apollo,

We agree about ancient Egyptian history and the origin of the Cushites. We don't agree about the Bantu expansion.

The Book of the Zanj (https://sites.google.com/site/historyofeastafrica/the-book-of-the-zanj) states that the Oromo drove the Sabaki speakers south and up the rivers from Shungwaya, on the Jubba. The southern groups are the present Sabaki speakers in Kenya and those that went up the rivers are the Gabawiin, Shabelli, Makane, Shidle and the Aytiire clans of Afgoi. Those who claimed to be slaves of the Ajuran were natives. The Ajuran enslaved locals (more like clients), but did not import slaves. My understanding is that the Bantu expansion stopped at the Tana.

The Tana river is in Kenya, not Somalia.

As for Madowweyne Bantus, they all descend from Malawian and Tanzanian slaves brought by Benadiri and Arab merchants. None of them naturally migrated to Somalia. I don't buy this revisionist crap written centuries after the fact often by people with Bantu ancestry with an agenda or who use said individuals for citations.

Ethnic Cushitic Somalis are the sole natives to Somalia, nobody else is. The rest are recent migrants one way or another.

Moreover, all of them are mixed with the enslaved Bantus. So my initial argument holds.

Whatever your argument will be next, at the end of the day they are still Bantus from Eastern Nigeria/Southern Cameroon (Western Africa). All serious anthropologists agree on this. These people are in no way shape or form native to Somalia.
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
The Tana river is in Kenya, not Somalia.

As for Madowweyne Bantus, they all descend from Malawian and Tanzanian slaves brought by Benadiri and Arab merchants. None of them naturally migrated to Somalia. I don't buy this revisionist crap written centuries after the fact often by people with Bantu ancestry with an agenda or who use said individuals for citations.

Ethnic Cushitic Somalis are the sole natives to Somalia, nobody else is. The rest are recent migrants one way or another.

Morover, all of them are mixed with the enslaved Bantus. So my initial argument holds.

Whatever your argument will be next, at the end of the day they are still Bantus from Eastern Nigeria/Southern Cameroon (Western Africa). All serious anthropologists agree on this. These people are in no way shape or form native to Somalia.

Check this source out and it says exactly what you're saying. It's very clear @Grant is wrong and it's not a surprise.

ybwgWvOESQG9iquC-pDOxw.png
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Check this source out and it says exactly what you're saying. It's very clear @Grant is wrong and it's not a surprise.

ybwgWvOESQG9iquC-pDOxw.png

Bantus never expanded into Nilotic lands (South Sudan), neither did they go to Omotic lands (Southwest Ethiopia) either. These ancient groups had metal weapons and wouldn't allow foreigners to intrude willy-nilly.

But guess what, in Somalia they all of a sudden did? I don't buy it! Especially with the obvious fact that slave trading groups like Arabs/Benadiris were present along Somalia's South coast. It's not rocket science to figure out how they got there.
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
Bantus never expanded into Nilotic lands (South Sudan), neither did they go to Omotic lands (Southwest Ethiopia) either. These ancient groups had metal weapons and wouldn't allow foreigners to intrude willy-nilly.

But guess what, in Somalia they all of a sudden did? I don't buy it! Especially with the obvious fact that slave trading groups like Arabs/Benadiris were present along Somalia's South coast. It's not rocket science to figure out how they got there.

Bantu expansion didn't pass the Tana river, let alone reaching to southern Somalia. Everyone knows they came from Southeast Africa and they came into southern Somalia as slaves to work on the plantation for Somalis. Nothing else.

He's also wrong about southern Somalia. He doesn't realize proto-Somalis established city-states in the ancient times and the successor ports were Mogadishu, Barawa and Merca as you can see from these sources.

ivBW85LtRhCq866LVP18vA.png


He also doesn't realize Arab, Persian and Indian merchants came around the medieval times as refugees or merchants. Still, they were numerically inferior and had no political influence in the Benadir coast. It was politically and numerically dominated by Somalis according to one of Ibn Battuta followers during his visit.

img_4863-jpg.28231
 
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The Tana river is in Kenya, not Somalia.

As for Madowweyne Bantus, they all descend from Malawian and Tanzanian slaves brought by Benadiri and Arab merchants. None of them naturally migrated to Somalia. I don't buy this revisionist crap written centuries after the fact often by people with Bantu ancestry with an agenda or who use said individuals for citations.

Ethnic Cushitic Somalis are the sole natives to Somalia, nobody else is. The rest are recent migrants one way or another.

Morover, all of them are mixed with the enslaved Bantus. So my initial argument holds.

Whatever your argument will be next, at the end of the day they are still Bantus from Eastern Nigeria/Southern Cameroon (Western Africa). All serious anthropologists agree on this. These people are in no way shape or form native to Somalia.

The Archaeology of Buur Heybe tells the tale on the Cushites.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/124524?origin=JSTOR-pdf&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

The Eyle have been there for 20K.

As for the Bantus, nobody is denying the Gosha and Mushunguli are Niger-Congo or that many of the groups are mixed today. That does not change the facts for those who spoke Sabaki languages before the Oromo invasions drove them up the rivers.

The point about the Tana is that it IS in Kenya. Note that there are Negroids who are not Bantu.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
The Archaeology of Buur Heybe tells the tale on the Cushites.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/124524?origin=JSTOR-pdf&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

The Eyle have been there for 20K.

As for the Bantus, nobody is denying the Gosha and Mushunguli are Niger-Congo or that many of the groups are mixed today. That does not change the facts for those who spoke Sabaki languages before the Oromo invasions drove them up the rivers.

The point about the Tana is that it IS in Kenya. Note that there are Negroids who are not Bantu.

The Eyle are ethnic Cushitic Somalis mixed with runaway maroon Bantus. Next. Nothing of interest or groundbreaking to see.

This is like saying that Amerindians mixed with Maroon African slaves are more native than the pureblood Amerindians. Extremely dishonest and extremely insulting to natives.

Typical white man. Always thinking that they are right, living on stolen land and now backing up his fellow invasive land thieves.
 
The Eyle are just ethnic Cushitic Somalis mixed with runaway maroon Bantus. Next. Nothing of interest or groundbreaking to see.

This is like saying that Amerindians mixed with Maroon African slaves are more native than the pureblood Amerindians. Extremely dishonest and extremely insulting to natives.

Typical white man. Always thinking that they are right, living on stolen land and now backing up his fellow invasive land thieves.

Insults, but no DNA I see.


Admittedly, this is just Wiki, although I can find the scholarly papers if it comes to that. Still, you should read it as it is generally accepted. You have the archaeology of the Eyle in the other link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buur_Heybe

Buur Heybe is today primarily inhabited by the Eyle, an ethnic minority community of agropastoralists, potters and part-time hunters. Their ethnonym translates as the "hunters with dogs".[2] The Eyle are believed to be remnants of the aboriginal San hunter-gatherers who inhabited southern Somalia prior to the arrival from the north of Afro-Asiatic populations of the Cushitic branch.[6] Buur Heybe is consequently also known as Buur Eyle ("Eyle mountain"), in recognition of the first inhabitants in the surrounding villages of Howaal Dheri, Berdaale and Muuney.[2]"

This map, greatly changed by changing politics, was accurate in 1977 and illustrates the groups I mention. The pink are non-Somali groups. Only the Gosha and Mushunguli on the lower Jubba have a slave origin. Except for the Aytiire in Afgoi, the groups are indicated.

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Apollo

Staff Member

Fool, they have tested the genetics of the Boni / B0on from the border region between Somalia and Kenya. Nothing unique about them. Just Cushitic Somalis mixed with Bantus.

Meanwhile, we also have the genetics of Somali Kenyans from Garissa and they are 100% Cushitic/Northeast African with no trace of Bantu expansion ancestry.

3,100-year-old bones from Northern Tanzania being similar to modern-day Cushites and with zero Bantu already debunks 99% of your garbage claims.
 
Fool, they have tested the genetics of the Boni / B0on from the border region between Somalia and Kenya. Nothing unique about them. Just Cushitic Somalis mixed with Bantus. You bore me.

Meanwhile, we also have the genetics of Somali Kenyans from Garissa and they are 100% Cushitic/Northeast African with no trace of Bantu expansion ancestry.

3,100-year-old bones from Northern Tanzania being similar to modern-day Cushites and with zero Bantu already debunks 99% of your garbage claims.



Yes, I know the Boni are mixed, but this study also tested and found this:

.
https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/11443

Page 122:

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This second study one goes back to 20K., but the only comment was from James Dahl when I posted it here. For certain, it does not agree with your political determinations. I liked your cartoon about uncomfortable truths and comforting lies. It would be appropriate here.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...nter-gatherer_adaptations_in_southern_Somalia

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For one thing, the teeth on these burials were too big to have been Samaale.
 
@Grant didn't you say the book of zanj was fabricated and the bantu expansion didn't reach somalia?

I did, but there has been more recent research. It now seems the fabricated part of the book of the Zanj was added to script that has received credence based on the settlement of the Kasur tribes in Kenya. and the locations of the Sabaki speakers in Somalia. Read the book,;the link is there.The part the court clerk made up only related to debts settled by pledging children or women. I read recently, but can't find it, that the rest has been confirmed.

The Bantu expansion is also being re-evaluated. Was the expansion into Somalia Bantu, or was it Swahili? Certified Bantus only begin arriving in Somalia with the Omani slave trade about 1825.
There is a good argument that Bajuni, Barwaani, etc,. have Swahili rather than direct Bantu content.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Yes, I know the Boni are mixed, but this study also tested and found this:

.
https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/11443

Page 122:

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This second study one goes back to 20K., but the only comment was from James Dahl when I posted it here. For certain, it does not agree with your political determinations. I liked your cartoon about uncomfortable truths and comforting lies. It would be appropriate here.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...nter-gatherer_adaptations_in_southern_Somalia

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

For one thing, the teeth on these burials were too big to have been Samaale.

Fool,

Those maternal lineages are found in regular Cushitic Somalis on 23andMe who cluster with regular Somalis and score 100% Somali.

Again, nothing unique about them other than the B2b which is from Tanzania - never found in ethnic Somals. The other lineages are native Northeast/East African lineages, big deal.

The only difference between them and regular Somalis is that they carry heavy Bantu/Swahili admixture (especially obvious when it comes to their E-M2 and other Bantu expansion lineages). Their B2a could also be Bantu. In addition, their B2b could be from hunter-gatherer admixed runaway maroon Bantu slaves from Tanzania.

Bantus are not native to Somalia. No matter what silly tricks you try to pull. Period.

There is a good argument that Bajuni, Barwaani, etc,. have Swahili rather than direct Bantu content.

Swahili is Bantu, dummy, and the Bravanese are 10-20% Bantu, the Bajuni much more than that.
 
Fool,

Those maternal lineages are found in regular Cushitic Somalis on 23andMe who cluster with regular Somalis and score 100% Somali.

Again, nothing unique about them other than the B2b which is from Tanzania - never found in ethnic Somals. The other lineages are native Northeast/East African lineages, big deal.

The only difference between them and regular Somalis is that they carry heavy Bantu/Swahili admixture (especially obvious when it comes to their E-M2 and other Bantu expansion lineages). Their B2a could also be Bantu. In addition, their B2b could be from hunter-gatherer admixed runaway maroon Bantu slaves from Tanzania.

My final comment for your dumb ass: Bantus are not native to Somalia. No matter what silly tricks you try to pull. Period.



Swahili is Bantu, dummy, and the Bravanese are 10-20% Bantu, the Bajuni much more than that.

The 1977 map of the Minorities and the Y Dna of the Boni, which is B1b1 and nothing Cushitic. .

Sir, for your information, I believe only the Gosha and Mushunguli are of slave origin and that there are other Negroid groups who are not Bantu.. I have reference to the northern Ugandans and the Arioid tribes of southeastern Ethiopia, among others. The Ari Blacksmiths have been there for 12K and could easily represent a more widespread group. You were so concerned you banned me from Bantu threads after I posted photos of the connection. IMO, your views on this subject are strictly political.
 

MI

Ted Kaczynski respecter
Sir, for your information, I believe only the Gosha and Mushunguli are of slave origin and that there are other Negroid groups who are not Bantu.. I have reference to the northern Ugandans and the Arioid tribes of southeastern Ethiopia, among others. The Ari Blacksmiths have been there for 12K and could easily represent a more widespread group. You were so concerned you banned me from Bantu threads after I posted photos of the connection. IMO, your views on this subject are strictly political.

You believe that Omotic groups and certain other peoples(I sincerely hope you don’t mean Bantoids for then you are lost) are more native to the region than Cushites? If I am understanding you correctly, what could give you that idea?
 
You believe that Omotic groups and certain other peoples(I sincerely hope you don’t mean Bantoids for then you are lost) are more native to the region than Cushites? If I am understanding you correctly, what could give you that idea?

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...s-hatred-for-arabs.56760/page-10#post-1548585

The Eyle, who are sometimes called Negroid and sometimes Khoisan, go back 20K at Buur Heybe.

Photos of Ari people:

https://www.alamy.com/search.html?p...ditorial=1&t=0&edoptin=&ps=100&pn=1&cbstore=0
 

Apollo

Staff Member
You believe that Omotic groups and certain other peoples(I sincerely hope you don’t mean Bantoids for then you are lost) are more native to the region than Cushites? If I am understanding you correctly, what could give you that idea?

Omotics are their own thing and aren't close to Bantus. Moreover, these people have nothing to do with Somalia or Somalis. They are localized to Southwestern Ethiopia and the Ethiopian highlands and never lived in the Eastern Horn Lowlands.

The 1977 map of the Minorities and the Y Dna of the Boni, which is B1b1 and nothing Cushitic.

Moron, the Boni are 42.9% E-M2 which is a bonafide Bantu Expansion lineage. Nearly HALF of their paternal side. In addition: their measly 4.8% B2b could be from an HG-admixed Tanzanian Bantu. It is not like Tanzanian Bantus don't carry any of it.

It is crystal clear that they have absorbed maroon Bantu slaves like I have said many times before.

And destroying all your other dumb claims, the remainder of Boni lineages are typical Afro-Asiatic E-M35 and J-M267.

Again, nothing more than Somali Cushites mixed with Maroon Bantus. Nothing special.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...s-hatred-for-arabs.56760/page-10#post-1548585

The Eyle, who are sometimes called Negroid and sometimes Khoisan, go back 20K at Buur Heybe.

The Eyle are nothing more than Somalis mixed with Maroon Bantus.


Old man, do you even realize that ethnic Somalis originated in South Somalia, yet carry the lowest frequency of any Omotic affinity in all of the Horn. Eritrean Tigrays carry more Omotic affinity than Southern Somalis. Idiot still pushing anti-scientific claims.

Furthermore, ''Negroid'' is not a scientific term. Sub-Saharan Africans have the largest amount of genetic diversity of the entire planet due to humanity originating in Africa. Especially non-Niger-Congo African groups. These minority Black Africans are not related to the Bantu, at least not closely. So, white man: stop using racist and unscientific terms like Negroid.

No credible population geneticist would ever use such term, this just shows what kind of low calibre we are dealing with here.
 
Omotics are there own thing and aren't close to Bantus. Moreover, these people have nothing to do with Somalia or Somalis. They are localized to Southwestern Ethiopia and the Ethiopian highlands and never lived in the Eastern Horn Lowlands.



The Eyle are nothing more than Somalis mixed with Maroon Bantus.



Old man, do you even realize that ethnic Somalis originated in South Somalia, yet carry the lowest frequency of any Omotic affinity in all of the Horn. Eritrean Tigrays carry more Omotic affinity than Southern Somalis. Idiot still pushing anti-scientific claims.

Furthermore, ''Negroid'' is not a scientific term. Sub-Saharan Africans have the largest amount of genetic diversity of the entire planet due to humanity originating in Africa. Especially non-Niger-Congo African groups. These minority Black Africans are not related to the Bantu, at least not closely. So, white man: stop using racist and unscientific terms like Negroid.


Says the guy who refuses to read the archaeology of the Eyle or notice that the Boni are B!b1.

Here's the Minority map in a form you don't need to spoil:

https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/somalia_ethnic77.jpg
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Says the guy who refuses to read the archaeology of the Eyle or notice that the Boni are B!b1.

Here's the Minority map in a form you don't need to spoil:

https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/somalia_ethnic77.jpg

Stop whining and read my posts above. These groups are mixed Bantus/Niger-Congos and not indigenous to Somalia (at least not wholly).

Ethnic Somalis are closer to prehistoric Somalis than they are, as ethnic Somalis have more native East African blood.
 
Stop whining and read my posts above. These groups are mixed Bantus/Niger-Congos and not indigenous to Somalia (at least not wholly).

Ethnic Somalis are closer to prehistoric Somalis than they are as ethnic Somalis have more native East African blood.

The "not wholly" gives you wiggle room, but is also an admission. I have read your posts. Now read my references instead of spoiling them.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
The "not wholly" gives you wiggle room, but is also an admission. I have read your posts. Now read my references instead of spoiling them.

They have more E-M2 (the quintessential Niger-Congo lineage) than many genuine Bantu populations. These guys are heavily Bantu mixed, it is so obvious.

You are a dirty hypocrite.

You accept that Egyptian Muslims who have only 8% more Sub-Saharan African over Coptic Egyptians changed over the past few hundred years, yet here you relentlessly defend a group who has close to 50% Bantu lineages as being native to Somalia.

Utter hypocrite, you have an agenda and it is so obvious for everyone to see.
 

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