Arabization of Sudan

[Step a side]

Sudanese Arabs today are practically geneticall identical to Christian ear Nubians meaning that this Gigantic migration of Arabs that completely changed the genetics of people in the region didn't actually happen.

Also I am talking about autosomal DNA. You can have massive changes in y-dna and mtdna without a much change in autosomal DNA.

The nation of chad has majority haplogtoup r1b like western Europeans

This only shows you which modern population they are closest to. It doesn’t show Arabian admixture.

 

[Kisra]

This only shows you which modern population they are closest to. It doesn’t show Arabian admixture.

Provide a source that shows modern Sudanese populations have high Arabian admixture

 

[World]

Sudanese Arabs today are practically geneticall identical to Christian ear Nubians meaning that this Gigantic migration of Arabs that completely changed the genetics of people in the region didn't actually happen.

Also I am talking about autosomal DNA. You can have massive changes in y-dna and mtdna without a much change in autosomal DNA.

The nation of chad has majority haplogtoup r1b like western Europeans

Pre Islamic Nubians from 9th century CE admixture dates back to 2-3rd BCE:

Using 815 CE as the midpoint of the calibrated modeled age range for Kulubnarti, this places admixture occurring on average during the early-2nd to late-3rd centuries CE(95%CI), although the dates obtained with this method are based on a model of a single pulse of admixture and thus reflect an intermediate value if the true history includes multiple waves or continuous admixture, which is likely at Kulubnarti given the individual-level variance in ancestry proportions.

How can Sudanese Arab be identical to Christian Nubians when they have additional 40 % Arab admixture?

Modern Sudanese Arabs:

Target: Sudanese_Arab_Batahin
Distance: 0.7569% / 0.00756915
43.4 Nubia_Medieval_Christian_Era_Kulubnarti
40.4 Yemeni_Mahra
12.6 Dinka
3.6 Kenya_Pastoral

Modern Nubian:

Target: Nubian_Halfawi
Distance: 1.5416% / 0.01541644
78.4 Nubia_Medieval_Christian_Era_Kulubnarti
15.0 Yemeni_Mahra
6.6 Dinka

 

[Step a side]

Pre Islamic Nubians from 9th century CE admixture dates back to 2-3rd BCE:

Using 815 CE as the midpoint of the calibrated modeled age range for Kulubnarti, this places admixture occurring on average during the early-2nd to late-3rd centuries CE(95%CI), although the dates obtained with this method are based on a model of a single pulse of admixture and thus reflect an intermediate value if the true history includes multiple waves or continuous admixture, which is likely at Kulubnarti given the individual-level variance in ancestry proportions.

How can Sudanese Arab be identical to Christian Nubians when they have additional 40 % Arab admixture?

Modern Sudanese Arabs:

Target: Sudanese_Arab_Batahin
Distance: 0.7569% / 0.00756915
43.4 Nubia_Medieval_Christian_Era_Kulubnarti
40.4 Yemeni_Mahra
12.6 Dinka
3.6 Kenya_Pastoral

Modern Nubian:

Target: Nubian_Halfawi
Distance: 1.5416% / 0.01541644
78.4 Nubia_Medieval_Christian_Era_Kulubnarti
15.0 Yemeni_Mahra
6.6 Dinka

Thank you for saving me time and energy.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

What about the specifics of the Arab clans that migrated and conquered Sudan? What country/Sultanate did they come from and what were their names? Did they establish any Arab kingdoms when they arrived in Sudan?

 

[Asaana]

What about the specifics of the Arab clans that migrated and conquered Sudan? What country/Sultanate did they come from and what were their names? Did they establish any Arab kingdoms when they arrived in Sudan?

No foreign Arab clan conquered Sudan, they had their own localized identity by the time they became powerful. And no Arab kingdoms were established, the Funj was the last kingdom and after them there was the Mahdist state which was led by an Arabic speaking Nubian. The Mahdi said over a hundred (or was it hundreds of) Arab clans settled in Sudan in the past millennia.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

No foreign Arab clan conquered Sudan, they had their own localized identity by the time they became powerful. And no Arab kingdoms were established, the Funj was the last kingdom and after them there was the Mahdist state which was led by an Arabic speaking Nubian. The Mahdi said over a hundred (or was it hundreds of) Arab clans settled in Sudan in the past millennia.

So these clans assimilated into Nubian/Sudan rather than conquering it like the northern countries.

 

[Asaana]

So these clans assimilated into Nubian/Sudan rather than conquering it like the northern countries.

Yup, you can see this clearly in Gezira state; where the Rufaa Arabs are very similar to the Ja'alin and Mahas communities but not the Rashaida. Also in Eastern Sudan where the Shukriya/Bataheen are more similar to the Beja and Halfawis than Rashaida.

 

[Khaem]

So these clans assimilated into Nubian/Sudan rather than conquering it like the northern countries.

Arabs didn't conquer Sudan but just migrated there en mass and made it an essentially Arab state by the 20th century due to their language and culture becoming dominant.

 

[Asaana]

Arabs didn't conquer Sudan but just migrated there en mass and made it an essentially Arab state by the 20th century due to their language and culture becoming dominant.

Language yes but culture not as much.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Arabs didn't conquer Sudan but just migrated there en mass and made it an essentially Arab state by the 20th century due to their language and culture becoming dominant.

Why didn’t the same thing happen in the Horn?

 

[reer]

Why didn’t the same thing happen in the Horn?

sudan has the river nile and had established a higher proportion of sedentary populations compared to somalis.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

sudan has the river nile and had established a higher proportion of sedentary populations compared to somalis.

The south and deep west into Hararghe is also sedentary and the coasts were filled with city/town dwellers.

 

[Khaem]

Why didn’t the same thing happen in the Horn?

Where would arabs settle to assimilate? Besides, I don't think any foriegn group would be able to migrate into somali or oromo lands and try hold power.
The way we fought war was if a group took some land, instead of farmers who are tied to the land and would surrender, Somalis would just pack up their camels and move somewhere else to keep figthing.
Not to mention nomadic peoples like cushites and nilotes are very territorial and hard to assimilate. The only type of Somalis that ever assimilated into a foriegn culture were the Somali farmers in hararghe and other parts of Eastern oromia.

And technically it did happen. The habasha Highlanders were Horners who got assimilated by Semetic southern Arabians. Just like the sudanese today. It's just way earlier.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Where would arabs settle to assimilate? Besides, I don't think any foriegn group would be able to migrate into somali or oromo lands and try hold power.
The way we fought war was if a group took some land, instead of farmers who are tied to the land and would surrender, Somalis would just pack up their camels and move somewhere else to keep figthing.
Not to mention nomadic peoples like cushites and nilotes are very territorial and hard to assimilate. The only type of Somalis that ever assimilated into a foriegn culture were the Somali farmers in hararghe and other parts of Eastern oromia.

And technically it did happen. The habasha Highlanders were Horners who got assimilated by Semetic southern Arabians. Just like the sudanese today. It's just way earlier.

I’d assume if it was more politically stable like Nubia during the medieval and early modern times when Muslims were ruling the horn we would have seen the same thing.

 

[Khaem]

I’d assume if it was more politically stable like Nubia during the medieval and early modern times when Muslims were ruling the horn we would have seen the same thing.

That's assuming they could migrate in mass to the Islamic horn. Majority of muslims were pastoralists. Arabs would get picked off and no assimilation would happen. The only places were somalis got assimilated was the farmers in hararghe.