Any wadanis here?

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Also, federalism will help preserve languages like Af-Maay, Af-Bajuni, _Af-Barawani and all other languages in Somalia, there are people in Somalia who often feel neglected and misrepresented.
They deserve to see a face and voice that represents them sitting in their local council office. They need to vote on local matters that someone all the way in Mogadishu doesn't give a damn about.

Centralism = Daarood /Hawiye eternal power-struggle.

Be real.

 

[Gambar]

They would rather insult Puntites and other Federalists who have actually contributed to security and development.

I see a lot of "I wish" and "I want" not " I do this and I did this".

I guarantee you most of them have never been to Puntland and probably don’t even know enough Somali to stay there for an extended period without a family member yet they think they can dictate why we should all be wadani. Most Puntlanders are wadani they just don’t want their fate left in the hands of one leader in the capital who by the way can’t even contain the city he’s in let alone region.

 

[Baruur]

What are you guys talking about nobody have mentioned puntland

 

[Gambar]

I reject the notion that each Somali must myopically develop his/her "regions". As an ethnic Somali, my "region" is everything south of Cape Guardafui, north of the River Tana, and east of the foothills of Ethiopia proper.

Clannism is the most dysfunctional, backward form of state building. You have to be wilfully ignorant to see how federal member states are impediments to growth, and are often tools by our geopolitical rivals. If you want a powerful, well-developed Somalia follow the East Asian models of development. A prerequisite of which is a unitary, centralised political system. This gives the best means of utilizing all available resources at our disposal, rather than wasting time and energy fighting wayward clan states over who is sovereign.

Additionally, a more dangerous precedent this system of clan supremacy fosters is one that is openly displayed on this forum; clan identity taking precedence over ethnic identity. I have literally seen people reject their Somalinimo and openly refer to themselves as "Puntlander" or "Puntite" (). This is not healthy development and I fear it will only embed our society with needless political fractures that will take decades to uproot. There is no reason for why we must divide ourselves this way.

What are you guys talking about nobody have mentioned puntland

Reading is fundamental.

 

[Sloane Ranger]

What are you guys talking about nobody have mentioned puntland

 

[Baruur]

Reading is fundamental.

She was responding to @PuntiteQueen who started talking about Puntland for no reason.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

She was responding to @PuntiteQueen who started talking about Puntland for no reason.

I added spice to your topic, thank me.

 

[Baruur]

I added spice to your topic, thank me.

That's true tbh I will pay back the favour

 

[Gambar]

She was responding to @PuntiteQueen who started talking about Puntland for no reason.

She was reaching by claiming that calling yourself a Puntite means you reject the Somali label. Do Djiboutians reject the Somali label? What’s wrong with federalism anyway? Why does that not make someone a wadani? Because they want to handle their own affairs instead of centralizing power and responsibility to the capital? That’s called being xasid walal.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

She was reaching by claiming that calling yourself a Puntite means you reject the Somali label. Do Djiboutians reject the Somali label? What’s wrong with federalism anyway? Why does that not make someone a wadani? Because they want to handle their own affairs instead of centralizing power and responsibility to the capital? That’s called being xasid walal.

This is a very strange logic Hawa presented. So, what's next? Don't identify with your village, your town? Where will this lead to? A dystopian Somalia where you will be imprisoned unless you call yourself "Somali" only.

Will our names also be changed to " Farah Soomali iyo Halimo Soomali" because identifying with your father's surname is "Family-ist"...

Why not focus on teaching Somalis to respect and embrace each other and celebrate our different identities?

Remember when Puntland hosted the first Somali national football competition and every team bore the emblem and flag of their region, it was beautiful and fun.

Who the hell wants to be part of a uniform country with one identity. Not I!

 

[Gambar]

This is a very strange logic Hawa presented. So, what's next? Don't identify with your village, your town? Where will this lead to? A dystopian Somalia where you will be imprisoned unless you call yourself "Somali" only.

Will our names also be changed to " Farah Soomali iyo Halimo Soomali" because identifying with your father's surname is "Family-ist"...

Why not focus on teaching Somalis to respect and embrace each other and celebrate our different identities?

Remember when Puntland hosted the first Somali national football competition and every team bore the emblem and flag of their region, it was beautiful and fun.

Who the hell wants to be part of a uniform country with one identity. Not I!

If she actually went to Puntland then she would know the people of Puntland are some of the biggest wadani.

 

[Baruur]

She was reaching by claiming that calling yourself a Puntite means you reject the Somali label. Do Djiboutians reject the Somali label? What’s wrong with federalism anyway? Why does that not make someone a wadani? Because they want to handle their own affairs instead of centralizing power and responsibility to the capital? That’s called being xasid walal.

Who said being pro federalism means you're not wadani?

Calling yourself puntite is a joke tho

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Who said being pro federalism means you're not wadani?

Calling yourself puntite is a joke tho

So, we're allowed to have federal States but we are NOT allowed to claim our State?

But it's ok to say "Reer Mogadishu" soo maaha?

 

[MT Foxtrot]

Never in the history of the existence of the Somali ethnic group have we been ruled by a central authority, except for the failed experiment that lasted from after colonialism to 1991.

Most countries were not ruled by a central authority until they suddenly were. Germany is a good example of this. A collection of politically insignificant German-speaking states unify and go on to reshape the political destiny of Europe forever.

@hawa-ali

So, tell us, how would you rule Somalia if given a chance. Which system would you implement.
It's all good and well to have idealistic dreams but let's be practical.

Paint us a picture.

Sure. Devolve all federal member states into the original eighteen administrative divisions of Somalia. Each one of these new regions elects a governor that oversees the executive branch of that particular state. The responsibilities of each state is determined by the state constitution. For larger public-works (e.g. infrastructure), governors will liaison with relevant federal agencies.

For the national parliament, each region sends a number of parliamentarians. I don't know how this exact number will be derived but to prevent the domination of one particular group/clan, we ought to implement some form of an electoral college.

This system ensures that people can take ownership of their futures and communities without needless bureaucracy. The central government can actually lead without having parallel clan governments undermining them. As usual, their purview of the central government is all national affairs: defence, economic planning etc.

Organising this way ensures that modernisation efforts can be directed in the most efficient way possible. Rather than having as many as five clan states with a radically inconsistent economic programmes, the government can simply allocate resources nationally.

I am certain this proposed system is half-baked but it is necessary departure from our current predicament. However, I believe it satisfies the desire to ensure local residents are consulted and have a say in their lives. No more Somalilanders, Galmudugians, Jubalanders, Puntites, or any other made up divisions. Just Somalis working together to develop their homeland and create a prosperous future.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Most countries were not ruled by a central authority until they suddenly were. Germany is a good example of this. A collection of politically insignificant German-speaking states unify and go on to reshape the political destiny of Europe forever.



Sure. Devolve all federal member states into the original eighteen administrative divisions of Somalia. Each one of these new regions elects a governor that oversees the executive branch of that particular state. The responsibilities of each state is determined by the state constitution. For larger public-works (e.g. infrastructure), governors will liaison with relevant federal agencies.

For the national parliament, each region sends a number of parliamentarians. I don't know how this exact number will be derived but to prevent the domination of one particular group/clan, we ought to implement some form of an electoral college.

This system ensures that people can take ownership of their futures and communities without needless bureaucracy. The central government can actually lead without having parallel clan governments undermining them. As usual, their purview of the central government is all national affairs: defence, economic planning etc.

Organising this way ensures that modernisation efforts can be directed in the most efficient way possible. Rather than having as many as five clan states with a radically inconsistent economic programmes, the government can simply allocate resources nationally.

I am certain this proposed system is half-baked but it is necessary departure from our current predicament. However, I believe it satisfies the desire to ensure local residents are consulted and have a say in their lives. No more Somalilanders, Galmudugians, Jubalanders, Puntites, or any other made up divisions. Just Somalis working together to develop their homeland and create a prosperous future.

@hawa-ali


Do you realise that the 18 administrative regions in Somalia also have the same clan makeup?
Instead of Federal states, you'd have "cagaar region" which actually means "Hawadle".

No matter what system you think is best, Somalis are inherently separated into different clans and they live together in certain regions.

Like I said before, you can change the mentality of Somalis by giving them good standards of life, not by constantly changing the system of governance.


From what you call "5 clan states" to 18 "clan administrative regions", waawareey.

Somalia's minorities would be even more screwed, only "laandheeres" would win and get more seats and more power. He who has the most land wins in your system...





You said Germany is an example of this but it's not. Germany is a federal country with devolved power.

Germany is a democratic, federal parliamentary republic, where federal legislative power is vested in the Bundestag (the parliament of Germany) and the Bundesrat (the representative body of the Länder, Germany's regional states).

 

[Baruur]

So, we're allowed to have federal States but we are NOT allowed to claim our State?

But it's ok to say "Reer Mogadishu" soo maaha?

Nah it's just that I can't pronounce "P"

 

[OffTheDome]

Just a reminder to the "Somaliweynists" your Qiblah is Mecca, not Mogadishu

 

[MT Foxtrot]

@hawa-ali


Do you realise that the 18 administrative regions in Somalia also have the same clan makeup?
Instead of Federal states, you'd have "cagaar region" which actually means "Hawadle".

No matter what system you think is best, Somalis are inherently separated into different clans and they live together in certain regions.

Like I said before, you can change the mentality of Somalis by giving them good standards of life, not by constantly changing the system of governance.


From what you call "5 clan states" to 18 "clan administrative regions", waawareey.

Somalia's minorities would be even more screwed, only "laandheeres" would win.

I don't understand. If your contention is that these administrative regions will have dominant clan due to demographics, there is nothing that can be done about it (unless you would like to suggest a more radical plan?).

Your original issue was that federalism is more democratic and representative than a centralised political system. I've addressed this in my post. Each of these new regions will be still be representative of the locals but we avoid the problem of consolidated clan states; and a political system that reifies further division.

I suspect as time goes on, and Somalia begins rapid development, these archaic forms of social identification will dissipate as I have discussed here.

 

[MT Foxtrot]

Just a reminder to the "Somaliweynists" your Qiblah is Mecca, not Mogadishu

Thank you for another insightful drive-by comment. Each time I read one of your comments this is what I see:

 

[GemState]

I reject the notion that each Somali must myopically develop his/her "regions". As an ethnic Somali, my "region" is everything south of Cape Guardafui, north of the River Tana, and east of the foothills of Ethiopia proper.

Clannism is the most dysfunctional, backward form of state building. You have to be wilfully ignorant to see how federal member states are impediments to growth, and are often tools by our geopolitical rivals. If you want a powerful, well-developed Somalia follow the East Asian models of development. A prerequisite of which is a unitary, centralised political system. This gives the best means of utilizing all available resources at our disposal, rather than wasting time and energy fighting wayward clan states over who is sovereign.

Additionally, a more dangerous precedent this system of clan supremacy fosters is one that is openly displayed on this forum; clan identity taking precedence over ethnic identity. I have literally seen people reject their Somalinimo and openly refer to themselves as "Puntlander" or "Puntite" (). This is not healthy development and I fear it will only embed our society with needless political fractures that will take decades to uproot. There is no reason for why we must divide ourselves this way.

The problem with Federalism long term is that Somalia does not have a center capable of holding the country together and capable of extracting taxes, so the endpoint if it keeps going in this trajectory since the IC won't allow balkanization is 4-5 de-facto countries within a country or a very loose confederation

The problem with a unitary state is that pushing for it will upset the power balance that Somali clans have been working for and may lead to another Government collapse, but it's the only way for the country to be 1 cohesive unit and stand up to its neighbors

It's not black and white, there are pros and cons with both systems, you have to consider that 3 decades of civil war made Somalis distrust each other