An ideological warfare must be waged on Al Shabab beliefs after liberating Somalia from their occupation

[Chase]

Why I reject Salafism (Wahabism):

1. Both of these 'sects' were established in the 18th century.

2. They are the most violent sect the Muslim world has ever seen, transgressing against innocent Muslims and non-believers alike.

3. Multiple and even hundreds of studies from the Muslim, West, Asia and around the world all connecting Salafism/Wahabism as the idealogical foundation of terror groups around the world, Boko Haram, Al-Shabab, ISIS, Al-Qaeda etc. and the supply of arms and funds from Gulf States.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2013/457137/EXPO-AFET_ET(2013)457137_EN.pdf

https://nps.edu/documents/105988371/107571254/DillonWahhabismThesis.pdf/23fc46fb-17a6-41da-83b8-8e312191b5bb

- TERRORISM: GROWING WAHHABI INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED STATES

Former Iman of the Grand Mosque in Mecca stating that all these terror groups get their knowledge, inspiration and justification for waging war and inciting fitnah with other Muslim groups from Salafism and its various clerics/authors, he also deliberately states Sufism does not cause terrorism, as neither do other Muslim sects.


4. Takfir Aka The permissibility of killing other Muslims

Ibn Tammiyah states in one of his books (MAJMU AL-FATAWA) that it is permissible to kill other Muslims as collateral damage, hence all these terror groups cowardly bombing markets and places of gatherings.

"If with the disbelievers there are pious people from the best of mankind and it is not possible to fight these Kufaar except by killing them, then they are to be killed as well."

Ibn Abdul Wahab declared Takfir against his own brother, stating that all non-Wahabi are disbelievers and apostates, this is essentially the spiritual essence of Wahabism, complete dominance of the world and Islam.

A HG Sufi is closer to me than a Salafi MJ, when the government of Farmaajo attacked the Sufi in Mudug, Al-Shabab once again started to terrorise Mudug, Sufism is a direct obstacle to the Salafi/Wahabi doctrine, that's why they always accuse us of grave worshipping when the vast majority don't, it's all they have.

 

[World]

We should ban the books of Ibn Abdul Wahhab and promote the works of monotheistic deviant Sufis like Ibn Arabi. Good luck with that. The muftis of this government are Wahabbis, so after AS is defeated a version of Wahabbism will prevail from another version.

Are you saying that there is no Islamic works that can be taught prior to the 18th century? It’s ironic how Salafis say they only take from the first 3 generations, but all their major works are from a khariji 300 years ago.

You say Ibn Taymiyyah and Mohammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab's books should be banned because they say Tawassul & Istighaatha are shirk, yet you yourself hold the same opinion as MIAW and IT when it comes to Istighaatha. The problem is you don't know the proper meaning of Istighaatha.

Actions cant be shirk without being accompanied by shirki beliefs, the separation of uluhiyyah and rububiyyah is an innovation and the belief that the pagans of Makkah along with all other religions believe in the Tawheed al rububiyyah is the source of MIAW takfiri beliefs. Yes going to a grave and calling upon someone to help you is haram.

As for Ibn Taymiyyah whilst he is a scholar, his works causes a lot of fitna today and shouldn’t be spread. Though of course he would disown and be the biggest critic of MIAW.

 

[World]

We should ban the books of Ibn Abdul Wahhab and promote the works of monotheistic deviant Sufis like Ibn Arabi. Good luck with that. The muftis of this government are Wahabbis, so after AS is defeated a version of Wahabbism will prevail from another version.

You say Ibn Taymiyyah and Mohammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab's books should be banned because they say Tawassul & Istighaatha are shirk, yet you yourself hold the same opinion as MIAW and IT when it comes to Istighaatha. The problem is you don't know the proper meaning of Istighaatha.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/dervish-history-directly-contradicts-the-legitimacy-of-somaliland.32032/page-4#post-839335

Honestly, you are a Jāhil who contradicts himself. You are not the guy to make commentary about the works of great Islamic scholars my friend.

LOL imagine finding my posts from 6 years ago when i was 17. Reading that thread though, the poster i was talking to was 100 % right may allah forgive me. That was near the time i stopped being a salafi.

 

[Macawisley]

Look at how the khawarij contradict themselves, we definitely need a Ideological warfare against these people.

 

[Hamzza]

Are you saying that there is no Islamic works that can be taught prior to the 18th century? It’s ironic how Salafis say they only take from the first 3 generations, but all their major works are from a khariji 300 years ago.

As I said you are Jahil and you shouldn't be throwing names like that. Go to Salafi Masjid and listen to what they say and the scholars they quote. I would say Salafis are not reliant on MIAW for Deen, other scholars are referenced more and more. You think Somalis are not Shafi'i anymore so your takes shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

As for Khariji, it's a label thrown nowadays to gain political points. The Salaf and the Imams of Ahl Sunnah disagreed on matters of Takfeer, for example, according to Imam Abu Hanifa, Malik and Ahmed the person who practices Sihr is Kafir but Imam Shafi'i disagreed with them and said it's not Kufr. Are Imam Abu Haneefah, Malik and Ahmed Khariji's or is Imam Shafi'i Jahmi/Murji?

I do not believe actions can be shirk without being accompanied by shirki beliefs, the separation of uluhiyyah and rububiyyah is an innovation and the belief that the pagans of Makkah along with all other religions believe in the Tawheed al rububiyyah is the source of MIAW takfiri beliefs. Yes going to a grave and calling upon someone to help you is haram.

As for Ibn Taymiyyah whilst he is a scholar, his works causes a lot of fitna today and shouldn’t be spread. Though of course he would disown and be the biggest critic of MIAW.

That's a weak excuse tbh, so you are saying the people who travel long distances to come to graves do not believe the person inside the grave can help them?

You said in that post of yours some of the actions of Qadiriyahh like begging Abdul Qadir to save their daughters are Kufr, but when the Ulema said the same it's Takfeeri mentality and their works should be banned. Isn't that hypocritical or did you change your stance after 6 years?

 

[Abaq]

A lot of confused people here. Forget ibn Taymiyyah and ibn Abdilwahhab, read the book Sharhus Sunnah by Imam al Muzani, the student of Imam Al Shafi'i and compare it to what ibn Abdilwahhab says. Read Sharhus Sunnah by Imam Ahmed etc. "Salafism" did not begin with Ibn Taymiyyah, it is the religion of Allah in its purity

 

[Hamzza]

LOL imagine finding my posts from 6 years ago when i was 17. Reading that thread though, the poster i was talking to was 100 % right may allah forgive me. That was near the time i stopped being a salafi.

Ok, fairs man. But from the conversation you don't look like Wahabbi, I have to say. You were also defending the practices of Tawassul and Istighaatha, praising the Ottomans and slandering Aala Saud, what kind of Salafi does that?

 

[World]

Ok, fairs man. But from the conversation you don't look like Wahabbi, I have to say. You were also defending the practices of Tawassul and Istighaatha, praising the Ottomans and slandering Aala Saud, what kind of Salafi does that?

At that point was when i stopped believing in salafi beliefs however i was still quite ignorant, i believe it was a few months prior to that that i was learning about the errors of najdi dawah. There is nothing wrong with Tawassul, it’s recommended when visiting the grave of the Prophet (saw). However istigatha is haram and i haven’t ever believed otherwise.

 

[World]

Just because I am against MIAW and salafism doesn’t mean that i support superstitious African pagan version of Sufism which goes against shariah.

This is shirk but this is isn’t sufism but an african pagan version of it.

 

[World]

That's a weak excuse tbh, so you are saying the people who travel long distances to come to graves do not believe the person inside the grave can help them?

You said in that post of yours some of the actions of Qadiriyahh like begging Abdul Qadir to save their daughters are Kufr, but when the Ulema said the same it's Takfeeri mentality and their works should be banned. Isn't that hypocritical or did you change your stance after 6 years?

As the Shafi’i Mufti of Madinah said:

In Bughyat al-Mustarshidin (p. 297), there’s an explanation from Shaykh Muhammad bin Sulayman al-Kurdi:

As for tawassul through the prophets and the righteous, it is liked (mahbub) and established in authentic hadiths. Its desirability is a matter of agreement. Tawassul through good deeds has been established [in the Qur’an and elsewhere]—and [deeds] are accidents1, so tawassul through substances is established a fortiori.
As for a slave making intermediaries (wasa’it) between himself and His Lord: if he calls upon them in matters as he would call upon Allah Most High, believing in their ability to produce effects independently of Him, then this is disbelief. If he intends [by this calling] to perform tawassul through them to Allah Most High in order to have important matters settled—believing that Allah benefits, harms, and produces effects—then this is apparently not disbelief, though his action is repulsive (qabih.)
1. “accidents” in the sense of not affecting the essences of their doers—not “accidents” in the sense of being unintentional.

He was one of the harshest critics of MIAW at the time, and was his teacher.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Are you saying that there is no Islamic works that can be taught prior to the 18th century? It’s ironic how Salafis say they only take from the first 3 generations, but all their major works are from a khariji 300 years ago.

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This can only be said by someone who is ignorant or dishonest. Honestly you should leave Salafiyyah alone due to whichever it is.

Salafis use tons of books that are from the early scholars. And they write commentaries based on many of those books as well.

Salafis promote tafsir Ibn Kathir. Salafis talk all the time about Ibn Taymiyyah and cite him all the time. Same with Ibn Qayyim. Salafis talk about Sharh us Sunnah of Imam Barbaharee. Salafis promote Aqeedah Al-Raziyayn.

There's a giant list of books promoted and utilized by Salafis that are way older than what you mention. I only named a few off the top of my head. What you are saying is really false and if you're slandering Salafis based on ignorance or based on intentional deceit you should leave Salafis alone. You shouldn't talk based on ignorance.

 

[Hamzza]

@World
Another point to make is Al Shabaab's justification for violence and excommunication of successive Somali governments is based on two facts
1. Ruling by other than what Allah has revealed.
2. Allying with Kuffar governments against Muslims.

And Najdis Takfeer was established on Shirk polytheism, Istighaatha etc. So your analogy doesn't make sense and AS though influenced by MIAW dawah is not basing its arguments against the Somali government on Kitabu At Tawheed and Usuulu Thalaatha.

What should be done to counter AS beliefs is to scholarly refute their points. Nothing will be solved by banning books.

 

[Omar del Sur]

A lot of confused people here. Forget ibn Taymiyyah and ibn Abdilwahhab, read the book Sharhus Sunnah by Imam al Muzani, the student of Imam Al Shafi'i and compare it to what ibn Abdilwahhab says. Read Sharhus Sunnah by Imam Ahmed etc. "Salafism" did not begin with Ibn Taymiyyah, it is the religion of Allah in its purity

This is correct. @World you need to properly study Salafiyyah instead of try to refute the minhaj. It does indeed predate Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah- and of course Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab.

 

[Omar del Sur]

At that point was when i stopped believing in salafi beliefs however i was still quite ignorant

and you still are. you need to study Salafiyyah more in depth.

 

[Periplus]

A sensible middle ground between Salafism and the Sufism of before is best.

A democratic Somalia based on Islamic values and norms.

 

[World]

@World
Another point to make is Al Shabaab's justification for violence and excommunication of successive Somali governments is based on two facts
1. Ruling by other than what Allah has revealed.
2. Allying with Kuffar governments against Muslims.

And Najdis Takfeer was established on Shirk polytheism, Istighaatha etc. So your analogy doesn't make sense and AS though influenced by MIAW dawah is not basing its arguments against the Somali government on Kitabu At Tawheed and Usuulu Thalaatha.

What should be done to counter AS beliefs is to scholarly refute their points. Nothing will be solved by banning books.

Al Shabab, Al Qaeda, ISIS are neo-Salafis, they are the real followers of the believes of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahabb. Whilst modern Salafis have changed post 20th century to uphold loyalty to the royal Saudi family and the King's absolute power.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Al Shabab, Al Qaeda, ISIS are neo-Salafis, they are the real followers of the believes of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahabb. Whilst modern Salafis have changed post 20th century to uphold loyalty to the royal Saudi family and the King's absolute power.

???????????

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it was Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab who formed the alliance with the Saudi family

 

[World]

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it was Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab who formed the alliance with the Saudi family

No, but irrespective of their actions. So when Americans were invited to Saudi, there was a split that occurred because they believed that this went against the beliefs of MIAW.

 

[Omar del Sur]

No, but irrespective of their actions. So when Americans were invited to Saudi, there was a split that occurred because they believed that this went against the beliefs of MIAW.

there was a movement that rebelled against the Saudi government but I don't think there's any evidence that Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab himself would have went with that movement. it is true that US troops were invited to Saudi but to my understanding, the Saudi government was worried about being attacked by Saddam. and Saddam himself was declared a kaffir by Sheikh Ibn Baz, on the basis of Saddam's Ba'athist ideology.

the real root of groups like Al Qaeda, Al Shabaab, etc. is the ikhwan ul muslimeen, not Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab. if people really want to cut at this ideology from its root, they should attack the ikhwani ideology. but the leading figure in this is Sheikh Rabee Madkhali and so when you start attacking the ikhwani ideology, people start yelling "Madkhali!" and so it is actually the "anti-Madkhali" people who protect that ideological foundation and prevent it from being eliminated.

 

[Lord Wrigglesworth]

Perfect example of why terrorism inspired by Wahhabism will never leave us. A whole sheikh calling for killing of people in foreign countries, living in government areas and in a country plagued by this misery with Shabaab

I’d like to see those that will defend this not suicide bomb themselves in Europe or America where they are hiding from the effects of the terrorism they support

Like there is free speech in somalia

If you want to burn a Swedish flag, then that's your god given right,

Or is it only accepted when a Swedish citizens the Holly quran

Why are the somali the terrorist for reacting, while the Swedish citizen are defender of free speech?