15,000 year old Moroccans seem Somali-like

[Apollo]

WTF, apparently E-M78 (the notorious Somali lineage) was in Morocco 15,000 years ago:

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2018/03/14/science.aar8380

''North Africa is a key region for understanding human history, but the genetic history of its people is largely unknown. We present genomic data from seven 15,000-year-old modern humans from Morocco, attributed to the Iberomaurusian culture. We find a genetic affinity with early Holocene Near Easterners, best represented by Levantine Natufians, suggesting a pre-agricultural connection between Africa and the Near East. We do not find evidence for gene flow from Paleolithic Europeans into Late Pleistocene North Africans. The Taforalt individuals derive one third of their ancestry from sub-Saharan Africans, best approximated by a mixture of genetic components preserved in present-day West and East Africans. Thus, we provide direct evidence for genetic interactions between modern humans across Africa and Eurasia in the Pleistocene.''

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@Grant @MARAQ DIGAAG @James Dahl and other Suugo Scientists

 

[MahmÜd]

So, what you're telling me is that, We Wuz Morrocan?

 

[James Dahl]

Makes sense really, this is in the ice age and Morocco was on the other side of the Sahara.

The Nile did not flow all the way to the Med during the ice age and all the beige areas are uninhabitable. See the dark yellow where Morocco is? That is savanna, where these remains were found. It is not impossible that this is the ice age refuge where this haplogroup developed and then colonized north Africa and Somalia after the ice age ended.

 

[Von]

15000 years ago? wasn't that a time period before the Cushitic and Semitic split back when we all were just Afro-Asiatics?

 

[James Dahl]

15000 years ago? wasn't that a time period before the Cushitic and Semitic split back when we all were just Afro-Asiatics?

Languages are a lot more difficult to determine. You can dig up a village from 15,000 years ago and determine all sorts of things, but one of the things you can't is the language they spoke because no writing.

 

[Apollo]

15000 years ago? wasn't that a time period before the Cushitic and Semitic split back when we all were just Afro-Asiatics?

This may be pre-Afro-Asiatic.

What surprised me that it was E-M78 that was high, instead of the now common E-M81.

It seems like E-M78 were explorers as it is the most widespread E lineage by distance.

 

[landheer]

What are the rates of E-M78 in modern day Moroccans?

 

[Apollo]

What are the rates of E-M78 in modern day Moroccans?

Not that high, but it's there. They are usually high in E-M81.

Cultural tradition they belonged to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberomaurusian

 

[NourUgaas]

Beesha T is also present in Morocco. The only difference is they didn't get cucked out of existence like E-M78

Beesha T, still winning the games against E-M78

 

[Apollo]

Beesha T is also present in Morocco. The only difference is they didn't get cucked out of existence like E-M78

Beesha T, still winning the games against E-M78

I think haplogroup T is not even Afro-Asiatic. I think they are something else that sneaked in. proto-Sumerian, proto-Dravidian? Who knows.

Afro-Asiatic is clearly E1b1b1 now. We created God's languages.

 

[NourUgaas]

I think haplogroup T is not even Afro-Asiatic. I think they are something else that sneaked in. proto-Sumerian, proto-Dravidian? Who knows.

Afro-Asiatic is clearly E1b1b1 now. We created God's languages.

By the time proto Afro Asiatic and proto Cushitic came into existence both Beesha E-M78 and Beesha T were already present. Beesha T are as Afro Asiatic as E-M78.

 

[James Dahl]

Afro-Asiatic doesn't have a coherent genetic origin, Hausa is an afro-Asiatic language and most of them are haplogroup R.

Afro-Asiatic is weird

 

[landheer]

Isn't T widely considered Afro asiatic though? Its origins are in the near east.

 

[James Dahl]

Isn't T widely considered Afro asiatic though? Its origins are in the near east.

Noone knows with T. It's found all throughout Europe, Asia, India and Africa in very small percentages, except in Somalia where the "founder effect" produced high percentages of a very specific lineage (Dir and Isaaq).

 

[Apollo]

R1b in Africa is an Italian migrant lineage that entered Afro-Asiatic territory very late.

J1 are Caucasus migrants that culturally appropriated Afro-Asiatic in the Levant. T likewise, but probably has more Iraqi or Persian origins.

 

[anonimo]

Isn't T widely considered Afro asiatic though? Its origins are in the near east.

It definitely reached Africa and the Middle East in ancient times and has a noticeable presence in both Semitic and Hamitic speaking ethnic groups. For instance, Syriacs (Assyrians) tested in the following study have a relatively high percentage of HG-T, so do the Northern Iraqi Arabs. Considering how Assyrians are a remnant of the ancient people that inhabited Mesopotamia, the presence of a high percentage of HG-T individuals among them might explain why Arabs also have it. It was most probably in existence among the Proto-Semitic speakers of the Middle East.

A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0187408

Noone knows with T. It's found all throughout Europe, Asia, India and Africa in very small percentages, except in Somalia where the "founder effect" produced high percentages of a very specific lineage (Dir and Isaaq).

Wrong.

It is also found in high percentages among the Tobou for instance; probably the largest haplogroup found among them in one study. It features prominently in certain areas of Eurasia, and among certain clans/tribes etc.

Its point of origin is probably not too far from where its sibling haplogroup (L) is predominately found, South-West Asia. Just a guess though.

Beesha T is also present in Morocco. The only difference is they didn't get cucked out of existence like E-M78

Beesha T, still winning the games against E-M78

As things stand, we have a negligible presence in North Africa.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Our fourbearers had big matumbos.

 

[James Dahl]

Interesting, I didn't know Toubou were T

 

[Apollo]

Natufians were also high in E1b1b1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natufian_culture#Genetics

E1b1b1 = Afro-Asiatic creators

/case closed.

 

[James Dahl]

R1b in Africa is an Italian migrant lineage that entered Afro-Asiatic territory very late.

J1 are Caucasus migrants that culturally appropriated Afro-Asiatic in the Levant. T likewise, but probably has more Iraqi or Persian origins.

20% of Hausa are R1b, and they have been there for at least 10,000 years. 90% of haplogroup R in Nigeria are Hausa.