Somali elder says 100k for his daughter nothing less in the middle of meher dispute

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VixR

Veritas
It won’t because it’s part of our faith. There can’t be a marriage without meher. It can be an apple timir (date) tho or forgiven.
We’re pretty selective in our Islam. Also, notice your statement: “Forgiven and Apple/Timir,”. That leaves the door open for outright dismissal in itself, which is what I’m sure will happen just from watching the tides.
This is interesting coming from you. I was pretty sure you've made it clear throughout your posts you basically believed in the clan myths and that Somalis are already genetically varied and diverse.
Before Somalia became a country and there were big cities, sure there was some contact between neighboring tribes and coalitions and such, but they were relatively isolated from each other. That’s why dialects and customs vary. After the country formed, there was greater mixing in some of the bigger cities and my folks tell me people forgot their tribes for a while, but that only lasted a little over 20 yrs. When the civil war happened, multi-tribal families were broken, everyone ran to their corners.

Now there’s migrations due to catastrophes and displacement and I’m sure some mixing, but people are apprehensive. Even in the diaspora, our grievances still prevent tons of intermarriage between Somalis so they tend to marry within their tribes and sub tribes, such that to many families an ajnabi is more acceptable than certain Somalis (happened in my immediate family).

That’s my read on it. And I think as an ethnic group, we can use some genetic variation.
 
hala aussi kefak ya albi 3an jad bit7kee about the markab? why markaab though? Why go that extreme and why would the women he’s marrying believe him if he isn’t filthy rich. Btw markab has a different meaning in Saudi dialect :browtf:

@Lamiis

Bi5eyr yaa ma7buuba. Markab in Somali means a ship. My uncle is a professional hustler who acts like he is the Bill Gates of Somalis. He worked in the Gulf for several years and returned back home to establish businesses that never returned profits. Moreover, he is a well connected to the powers that may be in his tribal enclave. He is addicted to weddings and to get the most after sought potential brides, he offers exorbitant mehers like Markab-ship. Maybe, he was behind the kidnapping of that American ship Maersk Alabama which was based on the movie Captain Phillips, just to pay as the meher of the daughter of a powerful clan leader. He is an enigma.
 

Lostbox

「Immortal Sage」| Qabil-fluid
VIP
Not even a upper class women is worth that much specially not a third world women. I don't blame the father for thinking this way.
 
I don't think the point here is about whether a woman is 'worth' it as some posters are implying. It's about affordibility.

Funnily enough as soon as a man is rich he has no problem splashing 1000s of $ on a woman.

Rich men are buying women houses and cars, and rich Khaleejis are notorious for providing very high mehr.

The crux of the issue is that many young men cannot afford to provide high mehr without harming their finances and going into debt.

Therefore people need to stop asking for something the other person cannot afford.
 

Always Lit

Everybody lies, which ones are tolerable??
I don't think the point here is about whether a woman is 'worth' it as some posters are implying. It's about affordibility.

Funnily enough as soon as a man is rich he has no problem splashing 1000s of $ on a woman.

Rich men are buying women houses and cars, and rich Khaleejis are notorious for providing very high mehr.

The crux of the issue is that many young men cannot afford to provide high mehr without harming their finances and going into debt.

Therefore people need to stop asking for something the other person cannot afford.
12000 dollars is not money. @ people next time. lol.
 
12000 dollars is not money. @ people next time. lol.

Always

Why not a nominal fee for the meher like five bucks, low key inexpensive wedding and furniture & pool all your resources in buying a property and building a brighter future for your family? Why this is tus tus big meher, expensive wedding and furniture and a year or two later, both of you have to seek and lie for a government subsidised apartment? Pride gone mad.
 

MariaMaria

Education, Peace and Prosperity
I'm so confused on some of the posts that are receiving a qashin rating :gucciwhat::wow1:

All @HalimaJ and me are to say is that women shouldn't ask their future partner for too much money when they know that the guy can't afford it. It doesn't matter if the women feels like she deserves it or not and if her 'worth' is that much

If the guy who is marrying you ain't got that money then don't settle for him or reduce it if you like him enough

And guys shouldn't folk out for these women even if they desire them because that first huddle of the mehr ,gives you a glimpse of what's to come

Fellas , don't be crying later when you are stuck with a golddigger:mjswag:
 
Before Somalia became a country and there were big cities, sure there was some contact between neighboring tribes and coalitions and such, but they were relatively isolated from each other. That’s why dialects and customs vary. After the country formed, there was greater mixing in some of the bigger cities and my folks tell me people forgot their tribes for a while, but that only lasted a little over 20 yrs. When the civil war happened, multi-tribal families were broken, everyone ran to their corners.

Now there’s migrations due to catastrophes and displacement and I’m sure some mixing, but people are apprehensive. Even in the diaspora, our grievances still prevent tons of intermarriage between Somalis so they tend to marry within their tribes and sub tribes, such that to many families an ajnabi is more acceptable than certain Somalis (happened in my immediate family).

That’s my read on it. And I think as an ethnic group, we can use some genetic variation.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, you're dismissing science and documentation of Somali practices by independent and neutral visitors and colonizers as "fake news", while you're taking the oral histories that you're family fed you over the years as factual and at face value?

You're right about the cuqdad part after the civil war and I can see some ignorant families behaving like that, but that is way overblown and "intermarriage" between Somalis of different clans is quite common now throughout the diaspora. Back home is a different story, I'll give you that.
 

VixR

Veritas
So if I'm understanding this correctly, you're dismissing science and documentation of Somali practices by independent and neutral visitors and colonizers as "fake news", while you're taking the oral histories that you're family fed you over the years as factual and at face value?

You're right about the cuqdad part after the civil war and I can see some ignorant families behaving like that, but that is way overblown and "intermarriage" between Somalis of different clans is quite common now throughout the diaspora. Back home is a different story, I'll give you that.
What science? And what oral histories are you referring to?

It’s not ignorance. It’s a symptom. Intermarriage between Somalis varies, but there no denying there are huge feelings of apprehension, and even hate, in the diaspora. I can’t say what the percentages are, but everyone tends to be urged to marry from their own tribe. And when a daughter or son fights it, the hostility of the whichever side totally ruins the marriage. I’ve seen it with my own eyes, but somehow on the other hand, Ajnabis are neutral ground, despite how xenophobic Somalis can pretend to be.
 
What science? And what oral histories are you referring to?

Genetic science. Don't you believe your clan descends from a sole Iraqi patriarch? :sass1:

It’s not ignorance. It’s a symptom. Intermarriage between Somalis varies, but there no denying there are huge feelings of apprehension, and even hate, in the diaspora. I can’t say what the percentages are, but everyone tends to be urged to marry from their own tribe. And when a daughter or son fights it, the hostility of the whichever side totally ruins the marriage. I’ve seen it with my own eyes, but somehow on the other hand, Ajnabis are neutral ground, despite how xenophobic Somalis can pretend to be.

You're not wrong about that, but you're going to extremes here. Do Somalis prefer their children to marry someone from their clan? Sure. But they also prefer someone from their sub-clan, and sub-sub-clan, all the way down to the laf. There's practical reasons for it that don't involve cuqdaad or hatred of shisheeye. The idea is when problems erupt between the couple, it's easier to arbitrate when the other family is basically your distant family there is a vested interest in keeping the couple together from both sides and doing whatever it takes to reach a resolution.


As for Somalis preferring gaal oo xaarka iska dhaakin over a respectable Somali Muslim from a different clan? I think that's pretty extreme and borders on the unbelievable.
 

Ras

It's all so tiresome
VIP
Genetic science. Don't you believe your clan descends from a sole Iraqi patriarch? :sass1:



You're not wrong about that, but you're going to extremes here. Do Somalis prefer their children to marry someone from their clan? Sure. But they also prefer someone from their sub-clan, and sub-sub-clan, all the way down to the laf. There's practical reasons for it that don't involve cuqdaad or hatred of shisheeye. The idea is when problems erupt between the couple, it's easier to arbitrate when the other family is basically your distant family there is a vested interest in keeping the couple together from both sides and doing whatever it takes to reach a resolution.


As for Somalis preferring gaal oo xaarka iska dhaakin over a respectable Somali Muslim from a different clan? I think that's pretty extreme and borders on the unbelievable.


Has life never taught you to avoid debating chicks when it comes to these types of topics?
 

VixR

Veritas
Genetic science. Don't you believe your clan descends from a sole Iraqi patriarch? :sass1:



You're not wrong about that, but you're going to extremes here. Do Somalis prefer their children to marry someone from their clan? Sure. But they also prefer someone from their sub-clan, and sub-sub-clan, all the way down to the laf. There's practical reasons for it that don't involve cuqdaad or hatred of shisheeye. The idea is when problems erupt between the couple, it's easier to arbitrate when the other family is basically your distant family there is a vested interest in keeping the couple together from both sides and doing whatever it takes to reach a resolution.


As for Somalis preferring gaal oo xaarka iska dhaakin over a respectable Somali Muslim from a different clan? I think that's pretty extreme and borders on the unbelievable.
What Iraqi patriarch? Are you talking the myth of being a descendant of the prophet of Islam that literally every Muslim society holds a claim to? You thought I believe that?

I’m not debating why they do it (inbreed). But that’s precisely what I’m positing leads to Somalis being inbred within their tribal populations, and conversely less homogenous across clan lines, and why I think genetic variation can only be a good thing.

My point was, there has to have been a certain level of isolation to account for the differences among tribes, like different customs, dances, speech patterns and dialects.

And it’s anecdotal (the easier acceptance of a foreigner vs people from certain tribes), but I’ve seen it happen, and not just in my own family.
 
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VixR

Veritas
I'm smart enough to avoid pitfalls when I see them but yh totally agree...
Men always insert their romantic experiences with women into any discussion with any random woman where she doesn’t agree with him, even when they’re nameless and without identity.

If I had a dollar for every “you remind of my ex” on civil disagreements regarding topics that couldn’t be any more unrelated to relationships between men and women, I could retire now.

If my (f) wasn’t turned on, and I wasn’t presenting as a woman, it wouldn’t be a pitfall, but a disagreement, which are as plentiful on earth as the insect population.
 

Ras

It's all so tiresome
VIP
Men always insert their romantic experiences with women into any discussion with any random woman where she doesn’t agree with him, even when they’re nameless and without identity.

If I had a dollar for every “you remind of my ex” on civil disagreements regarding topics that couldn’t be any more unrelated to relationships between men and women, I could retire now.

If my (f) wasn’t turned on, and I wasn’t presenting as a woman, it wouldn’t be a pitfall, but a disagreement, which are as plentiful on earth as the insect population.

Ill probably regret responding to this but f*ck it I'll try to explain myself anyways.

Simply put; women are from Venus while guys are from "muh pride" planet.

We don't have the same values so in these types of "interactions" we'd just end up beating a dead horse until men give up or the universe reaches heat death.
 

VixR

Veritas
Ill probably regret responding to this but f*ck it I'll try to explain myself anyways.

Simply put; women are from Venus while guys are from "muh pride" planet.

We don't have the same values so in these types of "interactions" we'd just end up beating a dead horse until men give up or the universe reaches heat death.
That’s pseudoscience, surprised you subscribe to it.

And what does this discussion have to do with values?
 

Ras

It's all so tiresome
VIP
That’s pseudoscience, surprised you subscribe to it.

And what does this discussion have to do with values?

It's not totally pseudoscience bs.

Our values differ mainly because of our different experiences and interests.

Women care more about their direct offsprings while men care just as much about their tribe or their own status.

Probably because the different levels of investment required.

It really all boils down to that. Even in this meher topic.

For guys it's a question of reputation while for the girls it's solely a transactional subject.

Regardless of how enlightened society is today; humans aren't empathetic folk when it comes how the other gender sees the world.

Could try to convince you of a truth through logic but how effective would I be if it starts from an axiom that only makes sense in a guys world?
 

VixR

Veritas
It's not totally pseudoscience bs.

Our values differ mainly because of our different experiences and interests.

Women care more about their direct offsprings while men care just as much about their tribe or their own status.

Probably because the different levels of investment required.

It really all boils down to that. Even in this meher topic.

For guys it's a question of reputation while for the girls it's solely a transactional subject.

Regardless of how enlightened society is today; humans aren't empathetic folk when it comes how the other gender sees the world.

Could try to convince you of a truth through logic but how effective would I be if it starts from an axiom that only makes sense in a guys world?
Even if I granted you that (I disagree on men being any less self-absorbed than women the tribe is a male-oriented entity so their investment in it is merely an extension of their self-status), information and facts aren’t subject to subjective feelings.

The question here was one of either they’re inbred and could use genetic variation, or not. My perspective says yes. It doesn’t matter if your values say intermixing is devil, in reality it’s a necessity. Goldman inadvertently ended up arguing my point for me. Logic will win wherever there are facts available, regardless of subjective interest.
 
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