Why it is a big mistake having daughters in the west

[Angela Davis]

My thing is this... you are entitled to your morals and values. But shaming women in to covering up is never ok. What is a hoe? Most of the women people claim to be hoes are vulnerable, traumatized and exploited girls. It's destructive and too simplistic to just brush off women as hoes and doesn't take into account the complexities within our identity and chips away at our humanity. It serves no other purpose but for insecure men to gain dominance and feel superior. What is a hoe? If your morals and values dictate women should be modest in their dress...it should dictate that you should be modest, humble and respectful in your language. It's hypocritical to expect women to behave modestly when garbage is spewing out of your mouth.

There is a difference between a women and a hoe just like theirs a difference between a man and a beta/manwhore. It's very obvious and I don't discriminate based on gender. I dislike the man-child Somali that will hump anything he sees and acts like an infant mamas boy jjust like I dislike women dressed half naked hoeing around. And you're right I don't speak for ALL Somali men in general but lets not pretend our society isn't patriarchal in nature and Somalis in general follow the religious code of conduct. I may seem harsh with my words from your point of view but putting your emotions aside, reality sides with me on this one. But you can be in denial if you want, it's your life right? Just remember you've only got one.

 

[Gojo Satoru]

Smdh some of y'all have too much time on thier hands

 

[jugjugwacwac]

My thing is this... you are entitled to your morals and values. But shaming women in to covering up is never ok. What is a hoe? Most of the women people claim to be hoes are vulnerable, traumatized and exploited girls. It's destructive and too simplistic to just brush off women as hoes and doesn't take into account the complexities within our identity and chips away at our humanity. It serves no other purpose but for insecure men to gain dominance and feel superior. What is a hoe? If your morals and values dictate women should be modest in their dress...it should dictate that you should be modest, humble and respectful in your language. It's hypocritical to expect women to behave modestly when garbage is spewing out of your mouth.

I agree with the bolded part. Somalis don't realize that promiscuity, drug and alcohol abuse, gambling and other addictions and vices are usually the result of childhood trauma, such as sexual, physical or emotional abuse or abandonment and neglect. A lot of Somalis have deep psychological and emotional wounds, which are manifested in destructive behaviors. It's too simplistic and quite heartless to label these people 'hoes', 'losers' and 'screw ups' when in fact many of them need our understanding and help.

 

[ThreeTwentyOne]

Not necessarily. A lot of people believe feminism and unlimited freedoms for women is one of the recipes for development and economic prosperity. But the reality is, it's the other way around, in that it's the economic prosperity that makes it possible for women to have unlimited rights in the first place. And just because economic prosperity makes it possible doesn't mean it makes it inevitable; case in point the Khaleej, filthy rich yet still patriarchal.

What exactly makes feminism and unlimited freedom so detrimental for economic prosperity? Isn't it ideal for the other half to be just as well off and comfortable to prosper? As you can tell I'm not really familiar with this stuff, I just want to understand it a bit more, thx sxb.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

What exactly makes feminism and unlimited freedom so detrimental for economic prosperity? Isn't it ideal for the other half to be just as well off and comfortable to prosper? As you can tell I'm not really familiar with this stuff, I just want to understand it a bit more, thx sxb.

Horta are u a male or female?

Actually you don't have to answer, I can see by the style of your post that ur a male.

 

[ThreeTwentyOne]

Horta are u a male or female?

Actually you don't have to answer, I can see by the style of your post that ur a male.

I'm a male, but I try to keep my posts ambiguous for an unbiased comment.

 

[dr.leorio]

My thing is this... you are entitled to your morals and values. But shaming women in to covering up is never ok. What is a hoe? Most of the women people claim to be hoes are vulnerable, traumatized and exploited girls. It's destructive and too simplistic to just brush off women as hoes and doesn't take into account the complexities within our identity and chips away at our humanity. It serves no other purpose but for insecure men to gain dominance and feel superior. What is a hoe? If your morals and values dictate women should be modest in their dress...it should dictate that you should be modest, humble and respectful in your language. It's hypocritical to expect women to behave modestly when garbage is spewing out of your mouth.

Morals and values come from God. It's quite simple if you think about it. We are all supposed to follow the rules and way of life thru our religion but nobody is 100% perfect in this regard because we're human. I cannot speak on the complexities of how they ended up this way but I can agree with you that some had a traumatic past leading them to this way of life.

Now here's where you're mistaken. I never shamed these ladies; that's just your emotions talking. I simply provided the judgement they would receive based on Somali standards that we grew up with. These standards are obviously different depending on how you were raised. And I already said it's not our business to care about what others do when I first posted.

Judging people based on how the appear and carry themselves is normal for humans(especially Somalis). You can't deny that fact unless you're stupidly naive. You can also argue to people it's wrong or whatever but remember humans aren't perfect. I respect your opinions on the subject but it seems like there is no point in continuing my replies since we obviously have different perspectives on how the world works.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

What exactly makes feminism and unlimited freedom so detrimental for economic prosperity? Isn't it ideal for the other half to be just as well off and comfortable to prosper? As you can tell I'm not really familiar with this stuff, I just want to understand it a bit more, thx sxb.

I didn't say that unlimited freedoms for women is detrimental for economic properity (though it is in many ways). What I said was some people believe that unlimited freedoms for women is one of the ingredients that lead to economic prosperity without realizing that it's the other way around, in that economic prosperity makes feminism and the total emancipation of women possible in the first place. Women's emancipation can only be sustained on the excess economic output of men, which makes possible the 'sex and the city' lifestyle of professional women, all of whom in more leaner times would have no choice but be tied to a man (father, brother, husband) in order to have a roof over her head and something to eat.

As for feminism and women's freedoms lowering prosperity for families in the West i'll give you one example. When women entered the work-force en masse in the 1960's, thanks to the cultural revolution, all of a sudden corporations had double the workforce. This meant they could make deep cuts into wages, and so as a result men had their incomes slashed. This is what created the necessity of the ubiquitous two-income household, where both husband and wife have to work in order to make ends meet. If women had not entered the workforce en masse and undercut the earning power of men, their husbands could have supported them on one income and they could have had the luxury of being house wives/mothers, which is now exclusively a privilege of the upper-class and elite, who of course aren't stupid enough to buy into the feminist propaganda that belittles marriage and motherhood fed to the sheeple masses

Feminism teaches that to be a house-wife is to be oppressed and have convinced women that working will emancipate them. All working has done is made them corporate slaves, and the capitalists/elite just sit back laughing at these poor duped women while smoking cigars and going home to their happy and well-rested house-wives lol. The irony is quite delicious.

 

[Mujahid]

I never thought I would see Somali girls proudly posing for pictures half naked a decade ago.
Where are the brothers and fathers of those girls horta? Some Somali men think being a father
means dropping a sperm only but not actually supervising their daughters.

Take them to a Good Islamic place.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

You should coach them/guide them up until a certain age. In the end, the inevitable will happen: they will be impregnated either in a marriage or outside of it. You should get comfortable with this reality, that women are biologically set up like men: to find food and shelter, have sex and avoid getting killed. Everyone inevitably behaves this way and marriage is an artificial failsafe made up by society.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Morals and values come from God. It's quite simple if you think about it. We are all supposed to follow the rules and way of life thru our religion but nobody is 100% perfect in this regard because we're human. I cannot speak on the complexities of how they ended up this way but I can agree with you that some had a traumatic past leading them to this way of life.

Now here's where you're mistaken. I never shamed these ladies; that's just your emotions talking. I simply provided the judgement they would receive based on Somali standards that we grew up with. These standards are obviously different depending on how you were raised. And I already said it's not our business to care about what others do when I first posted.

Judging people based on how the appear and carry themselves is normal for humans(especially Somalis). You can't deny that fact unless you're stupidly naive. You can also argue to people it's wrong or whatever but remember humans aren't perfect. I respect your opinions on the subject but it seems like there is no point in continuing my replies since we obviously have different perspectives on how the world works.

This is why dialogue is good because now, thanks to @Angela Davis , you're acknowledging that the issue is a bit more nuanced and that some of the people we deem 'hoes' and 'ciyaal-suuq' are in reality victims of trauma. I also hope she can take something from what you're telling her but I'm afraid the feminist brainwashing may make this impossible. I hope I'm wrong because ur model of how the world works, especially within the social milieu of Somalis, is rather accurate.

 

[dr.leorio]

This is why dialogue is good because now, thanks to @Angela Davis , you're acknowledging that the issue is a bit more nuanced and that some of the people we deem 'hoes' and 'ciyaal-suuq' are in reality victims of trauma. I also hope she can take something from what you're telling her but I'm afraid the feminist brainwashing may make this impossible. I hope I'm wrong because ur model of how the world works, especially within the social milieu of Somalis, is rather accurate.

The feminist brainwashing is so mind-boggling power that I wonder how many Somali sisters have been duped into their propaganda machine. Dialogue is excellent as communicating our different perspectives and understanding one another is key for Somalis to succeed and prosper in the future. The Somali diaspora is the necessary gold mine that Somalia needs in order for it to be great again. I just hope we can get our shit together.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

You should coach them/guide them up until a certain age. In the end, the inevitable will happen: they will be impregnated either in a marriage or outside of it. You should get comfortable with this reality, that women are biologically set up like men: to find food and shelter, have sex and avoid getting killed. Everyone inevitably behaves this way and marriage is an artificial failsafe made up by society.

Your're right, but when I'm a dad I'll do whatever I can to make sure it's done within the confines of marriage, though I can see how you can view matrimony to just be superficial window dressing. I guess in some ways it's a male/patriarchal meta-coping mechanism that assuages the discomfort of knowing the deed is inevitable and that fathers/brothers are powerless in the face of this law of human nature lol.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

The feminist brainwashing is so mind-boggling power that I wonder how many Somali sisters have been duped into their propaganda machine. Dialogue is excellent as communicating our different perspectives and understanding one another is key for Somalis to succeed and prosper in the future. The Somali diaspora is the necessary gold mine that Somalia needs in order for it to be great again. I just hope we can get our shit together.

Unfortunately many have fallen victim to this rabid and destructive ideology. They have been weaponized against their own men.

As for everything else u said I agree.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Your're right, but when I'm a dad I'll do whatever I can to make sure it's done within the confines of marriage, though I can see how you can view matrimony to just be superficial window dressing. I guess in some ways it's a male/patriarchal meta-coping mechanism that assuages the discomfort of knowing the deed is inevitable and that fathers/brothers are powerless in the face of this law of human nature lol.

Yeah, do the basics. When they're young provide food and shelter, love and guidance. Then just make sure they don't hang out with a murderer or something, lol. Other than that, evolution will do it's thing. The insistence on marriage is nonsensical because you're allowing what you've been terrified of the whole time (people seeing them naked).

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Yeah, do the basics. When they're young provide food and shelter, love and guidance. Then just make sure they don't hang out with a murderer or something, lol. Other than that, evolution will do it's thing. The insistence on marriage is nonsensical because you're allowing what you've been terrified of the whole time (people seeing them naked).

Yeah, marriage is a trade-off. The father/brothers allow the deed they've been terrified of the whole time, but in return marriage is ideally a lifelong commitment and so the liklihood of her doing the deed with more than one man is greatly reduced. It's like it sucks either way, but marriage is the least sucky option lol. Not to mention marriage allows ones grandchildren or nieces/nephews to ideally grow up in a stable and healthy home, so that also helps one to accept the inevitable they've been trying to avoid up until that point. And lastly, marriage is the only social institution within Muslim societies within which the deed can be done without any social taboo attached to it, so of course fathers and brothers will opt for it, even if begrudgingly.

 

[Zumar]

We are not all like that
Also i think they are beautiful

I hate those somalis who look at you like trash because you are wearing some jeans and no hijab..

Even though 30 years ago nobody wore hijab and long clothes in somalia?

 

[jugjugwacwac]

We are not all like that
Also i think they are beautiful

I hate those somalis who look at you like trash because you are wearing some jeans and no hijab..

Even though 30 years ago nobody wore hijab and long clothes in somalia?

I agree. U can tell very little from a Somali girl's lifestyle from the way she dresses, unless of course she's going out of her way to wear provocative and revealing things. A non-hijabi in some jeans can be much more socially/sexually conservative than a hijabi in an abaaya. I've seen this many times and only a guy with very little experience with women or life experience in general would think otherwise.

 

[Zumar]

I agree. U can tell very little from a Somali girl's lifestyle from the way she dresses, unless of course she's going out of her way to wear provocative and revealing things. A non-hijabi in some jeans can be much more socially/sexually conservative than a hijabi in an abaaya. I've seen this many times and only a guy with very little experience with women or life experience in general would think otherwise.

I get where the idea comes from
But why isnt it this a problem with for example iraq people..mostly their daughters dont wear hijab, they wear jeans but nothing much revealing

They always to good in school and go to university, other iraqish people dont call them out because they dont wear hijab

But somali people always look at u in disgust even though they dont know you at all

Why cant somali people just think for a second..they literally see you wearing some jeans and they say you are a

Its just so annoying, wish they would think for a minute

And then i know these somali girls who wear hijab but always date guys/suck at school etc, but because they are wearing hijab they are good girls

 

[jugjugwacwac]

I get where the idea comes from
But why isnt it this a problem with for example iraq people..mostly their daughters dont wear hijab, they wear jeans but nothing much revealing

They always to good in school and go to university, other iraqish people dont call them out because they dont wear hijab

But somali people always look at u in disgust even though they dont know you at all

Why cant somali people just think for a second..they literally see you wearing some jeans and they say you are a

Its just so annoying, wish they would think for a minute

And then i know these somali girls who wear hijab but always date guys/suck at school etc, but because they are wearing hijab they are good girls

lool, Yeah it's complete nonsense. You know what makes it even more stupid? We have hijabis here in Canada that wear the most tight and figure hugging clothes. They literally leave nothing to the imagination except their hair. But just because they have the hijab on their head they're supposedly better than the girls who aren't hijabis, some of whom wear more loose fitting clothes than these hijabis.

Hijabi or not I think it's best if Somali girls don't wear revealing and very tight and figure hugging clothes. But even if they do, I still wouldn't be quick to judge their lifestyle based on that unless they were wearing something outrageous that left no doubt about what they get up to. And as for hijabi's I don't view them any different either. Basically I treat every girl as an individual whose lifestyle can be anywhere on the conservative to liberal spectrum. The clothes tell us very little.