What ethnicity was Ahmed Gurey?

[Air]

No he wasn’t you idiot why do you guys want to claim so badly that he belongs to this clan or that other one?

Your opinion is irrelevant. So is mine.

Leave it to the Ethiopian national library and Harari top clerks and scholars.

I thank Allah for giving us neighbours (Ethiopians, Arabs etc) who are known for writing things down as it should.

Oral traditions you Somalis have is funny and this is why you guys don’t have no big international hero. The only one you guys had (imam Ahmed) is a foreigner according to you Somalis.

 

[Gantaal97]

Nonsense

In the futuh al habasha there was no mention of the imams ethnicty, However there are many referrences of his relatives who seem to be from the belaw ethnicty
The imam was born in the city hubat located between zeilac and harar, its ruler was the cheiftain of the belaw

Al futuh says: ''ibrahim bin ahmed ruler of the country of hubat of The tribe of belaw''
this ibrahim ruler of hubat seems to be the imams father

Al futuh says: ''the imam was at that time knight under garaad abun who loved him and show how courageous he was''

This is what some people told him. separating him and Garad Mahfuz of the Walashma, and there only connection is thru marriage. the Imam was married to his daughter bati al wambara

They gathered in Amajah where they stayed three days. It was one of the towns in Abyssinia that had Muslims living in it. But it belonged to the king. Its inhabitants then went to the imam Ahmad and said, "The king of Abyssinia has a mighty force with him; the number of his horses is incalculable. Only the Most High God knows the number of his coats of mail, helmets, foot-soldiers and shields made of hide. Your fathers, your ancestors, the emir `Ali, the emir Mahfuz your father-in-law, along with Garad Ibrahim and the sultans who long ago used to rule in the country of Sa`d ad-Din - not one of them has ever attacked the king of Abyssinia in his own country, in his own dwelling-place

this garaad abun seems his brother WHO have trained him. but the futah says he is his cousin by the name of Garad abun ibn adash of hubat as well. the futah never mentions him as a Brother but cousin..

here is where it gets weird.. Ethiopian soldier or A king sends a letter to Axmed gurey thru Arab fiqi WHO wrote the book futah, and this letter is also used in the futah.. but he never corrects him.

''It was I who long ago killed your brother Garad Abun, son of Garad Ibrahim, who was older than you in years. I routed his army, and did so more than once. Don't imagine that I am like any of the patricians whom you've encountered up till now. I am Wasan Sagad''

Wasan Sagad says his Brother while arab fiqi claim as his cousin.. some one is misinformed they can not both be correct and it will later on show that arab fiqi is correct. sinces he was with the imam.

The futah goes on to praise Garad abun ibn adash and says that he loved Axmed gurey

''After this Garad Abun came against him, and ruled for seven years. He clung to the truth, and exercised justice and authority in a fair way, banning what was forbidden, killing highwaymen, forbidding wine, games, and dances accompanied by drums. The country flourished. He cultivated the nobles and the Qur'anic teachers, the dervishes and the sheikhs. He ruled over his kingdom and worked for the good of his subjects.

Our lord the imam of the Muslims, Ahmad bin Ibrahim al-Ghazi was at that time a knight under Garad Abun, endowed with intelligence and foresight who consulted, in his youth and his prime, the inspiration of God the Most High in regard to the commission that God willed should be entrusted to him. Garad Abun loved him mightily, when he saw how courageous and astute he was''

ancient oromo beliefs says that Axmed gurey was a Balaw Karanle hawiya babile afaan oromo, and they have that written Down in some books, which are not translated. but they believe he was a balaw.

The tigriyan highlanders also have there claims on him and have some books. that claim he is a balaw, from tigriyans themselves because there is a tigriyan balaw's in the highlands of ethiopia.. and when the Imam captured habasha he had his camp there and his wife was with them in the war times. they were guarding her. he also had a meeting with some balaw tribes during his camp up there.


Now the Question is WHO are this balaw tribe and where do they live? we know that the Garad Ibrahim of hubat was a balaw.

Hubat is located between Harar and babile, and the city is called in af somali ''Hoobad'' and the people you will find today in this city are still the same. they belong to the same tribe as the balaw mentioned up. Balaw is a sub-sub-sub tribe under Karanle sixawle and this tribe still lives in hoobad, and the entire city is mainly karanle sixawle balaw.

According to experts Hubat was a Harla town not a somali one

Archaeologist Timothy Insoll considers Harla town to be Hubat the capital of the now defunct Harla.

According to Mohammed Hassan Hubat was the stronghold of the Harla people and center of operations for fifteenth century Adal Emir Garad Abun Adashe.

 

[DalsanJubiland]

Xarla was somali because they were Xarla Kombe related to Geri Kombe.

He was 100% Somali.

Him being non Somali is being peddled by Amhara pathological liars who want to erase Somali from history and claim we are new commers to our lands.

Just like amhara racists claim Tigrayans were not Axumites.

Oromos came from Madagascar.
In other words the Confederate amhara ethnic groups want to propagate historical falacies even they claim they are descendants of Solomon and Sheba and also they claim Lalilbela who was the last Agew King deposed.

True
Also related to Harti
There are 7 Koombe
Geri Koombe
Harti Koombe
Abdi Koombe
Xarle Koombe
Definitely he was Xarle Koombe guy

 

[Mckenzie]

He was non Somali according to Non hawiye Somalis but he was Hawiye from the Karanle branch according to Ethiopians Arabs and the entire hawiye family and other righteous educated non Hawiye Somalis

Hit the nail on the head. I was one of the few with a team of dedicated Hagites who found that excerpt from Tekletsadik, the Idaajaa of Ethiopia. Hawiye wax uma quuraan dadkaan let them keep denying the obvious and congrats to Beesha Karanle for celebrating their hereos in Kenya, claims by other clans will just be a claim like the Turks, Arabs, Harari, Afar etc none of these people will ever come together to validate it.

 

[Air]

Hit the nail on the head. I was one of the few with a team of dedicated Hagites who found that excerpt from Tekletsadik, the Idaajaa of Ethiopia. Hawiye wax uma quuraan dadkaan let them keep denying the obvious and congrats to Beesha Karanle for celebrating their hereos in Kenya, claims by other clans will just be a claim like the Turks, Arabs, Harari, Afar etc none of these people will ever come together to validate it.

thank you brother

these uneducated nomads piss me off wallahi. I try to educate and bring all the proofs left and right but they just keep ignoring like the stubborn nomads they naturally are.

 

[Mckenzie]

According to experts Hubat was a Harla town not a somali one

Hobaad is still inhabited today, if Oromo inhabited it that would make sense but Somalis protected the town despite losing hundreds more.

thank you brother

these uneducated nomads piss me off wallahi. I try to educate and bring all the proofs left and right but they just keep ignoring like the stubborn nomads they naturally are.

There's a lack of empathy and greater understanding. It is not possible for a leader to lead a nation with unknown or questionable roots, even if the roots are questionable they would be known. Gragne's father and uncle were tribal chiefs which means he was next in line. The Adalite were confederates so Gragne would have started in charge of his hometown first like Qoorqoor before unifying the state.

 

[Air]

Hobaad is still inhabited today, if Oromo inhabited it that would make sense but Somalis protected the town despite losing hundreds more.

View attachment 206389



There's a lack of empathy and greater understanding. It is not possible for a leader to lead a nation with unknown or questionable roots, even if the roots are questionable they would be known. Gragne's father and uncle were tribal chiefs which means he was next in line. The Adalite were confederates so Gragne would have started in charge of his hometown first like Qoorqoor before unifying the state.

Brother your absolutely right. And the funny thing is that the actual descendants and relatives of the imam are doing fine and well but here you have nomads trying to erase this entire clan as if they don’t exist or never existed at all. How low can you be though? Is like saying Aksum has nothing to do with modern day Tigray’s.

 

[CanoGeel]

@James Dahl your three cents?

 

[Gantaal97]

Hobaad is still inhabited today, if Oromo inhabited it that would make sense but Somalis protected the town despite losing hundreds more.

View attachment 206389



There's a lack of empathy and greater understanding. It is not possible for a leader to lead a nation with unknown or questionable roots, even if the roots are questionable they would be known. Gragne's father and uncle were tribal chiefs which means he was next in line. The Adalite were confederates so Gragne would have started in charge of his hometown first like Qoorqoor before unifying the state.

It's only one former Ethiopian Minister saying he was "Hawiye" and you all jump on with your ego that Imam Ahmed was one of you when there's no any historian or academic weather a Somali or non Somali that states his Qabil cuz there's no mention of it and also the old town Hubat is under Oromiya region inhabitanted by oromos and before that it belonged to extinct Harla ethnic people.

 

[Mckenzie]

It's only one former Ethiopian Minister saying he was "Hawiye" and you all jump on with your ego that Imam Ahmed was one of you when there's no any historian or academic weather a Somali or non Somali that states his Qabil cuz there's no mention of it and also the old town Hubat is under Oromiya region inhabitanted by oromos and before that it belonged to extinct Harla ethnic people.

Tekletsadiq mentions in his book he refers to Harari scholars from Harar, Ahmed Sami who died not long ago use to provide documents for the European institutes, i would suggest you read this in full on JSTOR. Talks about the villages and towns overrun by Oromia in their invasion

 

[Air]

It's only one former Ethiopian Minister saying he was "Hawiye" and you all jump on with your ego that Imam Ahmed was one of you when there's no any historian or academic weather a Somali or non Somali that states his Qabil cuz there's no mention of it and also the old town Hubat is under Oromiya region inhabitanted by oromos and before that it belonged to extinct Harla ethnic people.

You are a retard for going against the highest Harari and Ethiopian scholars and the Ethiopian national library. Nomads like you don’t read or write. They just talk with emotions.

 

[Air]

Tekletsadiq mentions in his book he refers to Harari scholars from Harar, Ahmed Sami who died not long ago use to provide documents for the European institutes, i would suggest you read this in full on JSTOR. Talks about the villages and towns overrun by Oromia in their invasion

View attachment 206390

This is what I’m talking about. No one cares about Somali nomads and their opinions so the Europeans went straight to Harari historians just to find out he is from the Karanle hawiye branch.

You don’t see them going to Mogadishu ,Hargeisa or Bosaaso asking people because these people are irrelevant,

Educated people like the hararis don’t have an issue with stating the imam as hawiye but fellow Somali nomads do. But once again their opinion is totally irrelevant.

 

[Deleted L]

So we let a non Somali fought our war?

It’s possible that he was Somali himself. There just isn’t any definite proof or shred of evidence for what ethnicity he belonged to. The sources don’t identify his ethnicity.

 

[reer]

It’s possible that he was Somali himself. There just isn’t any definite proof or shred of evidence for what ethnicity he belonged to. The sources don’t identify his ethnicity.

we somalis aint got much going for us. let us dream about a guy from 500 years ago. ahmed gurey unukaa leh.

 

[Deleted L]

@Air

Trust me, not everything is about Qabiil. I couldn’t give a rat ass if he was Madhibaan, if he truly was Hawiye or any other Somali, I would be happy but not all of us are into nationalistic rhetoric that isn’t proven. Some of us want to be honest with ourselves and approach history through an unbiased objective view.

 

[Mckenzie]

This is what I’m talking about. No one cares about Somali nomads and their opinions so the Europeans went straight to Harari historians just to find out he is from the Karanle hawiye branch.

You don’t see them going to Mogadishu ,Hargeisa or Bosaaso asking people because these people are irrelevant,

Educated people like the hararis don’t have an issue with stating the imam as hawiye but fellow Somali nomads do. But once again their opinion is totally irrelevant.

Honestly if this was a study done by Karanle Somalis i would dismiss it too, many Somali nomads believe they came with flying carpets. Harar is very similar to Benadir in history and structure. But heavy influence only in the last century has changed its outlook.

 

[Air]

Honestly if this was a study done by Karanle Somalis i would dismiss it too, many Somali nomads believe they came with flying carpets. Harar is very similar to Benadir in history and structure. But heavy influence only in the last century has changed its outlook.

Thank you, I would have dismissed it aswell if the study was done by Karanle themselves. Us Karanle hawiye are with the family and descendants of the imam till this day and have great and enormous respect in Harar and it’s surroundings.

@Air

Trust me, not everything is about Qabiil. I couldn’t give a rat ass if he was Madhibaan, if he truly was Hawiye or any other Somali, I would be happy but not all of us are into nationalistic rhetoric that isn’t proven. Some of us want to be honest with ourselves and approach history through an unbiased objective view.

I respect that. But the imams ethnicity is proven.

 

[Gantaal97]

You are a retard for going against the highest Harari and Ethiopian scholars and the Ethiopian national library. Nomads like you don’t read or write. They just talk with emotions.

The only ones talking nonsense in here is you and Mckenzie kulaha highest Harari and Ethiopian scholars

I'm with the view and opinion of @Tamir

@Air

Trust me, not everything is about Qabiil. I couldn’t give a rat ass if he was Madhibaan, if he truly was Hawiye or any other Somali, I would be happy but not all of us are into nationalistic rhetoric that isn’t proven. Some of us want to be honest with ourselves and approach history through an unbiased objective view.

 

[Air]

The only ones talking nonsense in here is you and Mckenzie kulaha highest Harari and Ethiopian scholars

I'm with the view and opinion of @Tamir

Your opinion is completely irrelevant just like how my opinion is irrelevant. Just go to Harar or Addis national library and ask about the imams background. Forget opinions of nomads who don’t read or write.

 

[James Dahl]

@James Dahl your three cents?

The most convincing case is made by the Karanle Hawiye, which lines up with the little we know of Ahmed Gurey. The only references that cite his tribe say he was Balaw, and that he was related to Garad Abun, the Garad of Hobat. Hobat is the centre and traditional capital of the Karanle Hawiye. Balaw is a clan of Karanle, and is the one that lives around Hobat.

The Futuh states that Ahmed Gurey began as a knight in Garaad Abun's army. Now, this doesn't mean that Ahmed Gurey was Hawiye, because it's also possible that Balaw became Hawiye later on, due to the process of clan assimilation, and may have been a separate and possibly not even Somali clan at the time, and became a Somali Hawiye clan later on. This is similar with the Walashma dynasty, who's Somali name is Wilinwili. The descendants that exist today trace to Ogaden, but this too may be an assimilation or that was always their descent.

This is exacerbated by the fact that in the middle ages there was no concept of a Somali nation, so if Ahmed Gurey traced his ancestry to Hawiye and the Walashma traced their ancestry to Ogaden, that didn't mean they considered themselves to be Somali, a nationalist concept that did not at the time exist. The "identity politics" at the time was very much around religion, with the two sides in the Futuh being clearly the Christians against the Muslims.