GENETICS The Origin of the Sudanese 'Africans'

[Smif-N-Wessun]

What in real life? Or online lol. Sudan is populated 70% Arab tribes and a 30% minority of Non-Arab tribes.

real life in the US and every time I see videos of Khartoum

 

[reer]

What in real life? Or online lol. Sudan is populated 70% Arab tribes and a 30% minority of Non-Arab tribes.

imma say something that will trigger the ethnocentrists and the under 18s. if somalis spoke a major language like swahili or arabic we would be in a better position. we wouldnt be in lawlessness for 30 years. we would be just another poor african/arab country.

 

[Nilotic]

ya zools, is the population of Sudanese Arab 70% of the country? I keep running into more of the other groups like Nuba, Southeners, and Darfurians.

We're no longer part of the demographic equation; we have our own State (it's in shambles now) but we actually have the opportunity to turn things around with all our mineral wealth, arable land and billions of barrels in oil wealth.

We never kowtowed to the Afro-Arabs in Khartoum and we never will; I can't say the same thing for other non-Arab groups in Sudan.

 

[KelAhaggar]

The Noba overran the Kushite Kingdom leading to instability and its weakening along with severe decline, yet no historian ever asserts the idea that the Noba "conquered Kush". The Axumites initiated a military campaign to that effortlessly wiped Kush off the map, Axum is given the title of conquerer for putting a few troops on the ground to an already severely declined state ravaged by internal conflicts yet the Noba who had been in conflict, and made centuries of attempts to overthrow Kushite rule are simply brushed off as angry Nomads. Arabs were definitely detrimental to the decline of Makuria, they were not conquerors. Had they been conquerers, organized military action would have led to their success in Sudan. They attempted that twice and it failed, thrice with the Nomadic intrusions and it just lead to bloodshed. The Arabs then had a light bulb moment that Makuria and many other Sudanese kingdoms seemed to be experiencing a period of decline, the Arabs sat back, grew their population, and watched everything burn to wait to spread and dominate. This is only partially how Arabization came about however and I want to make it clear by referring back to the Funj, Arabs don't seem to be the only yielders of blame behind Sudan being Arabized.

The Funj being in conflict with Arabs is not a good argument at all to say they were opposed to Arabization and/or were not responsible for it. I'll have you know the Sudanese government is very adamant about Arabizing the remaining minorities in the country today and have made partial success in doing so yet at the same time they don't mind deploying troops in Yemen to slaughter innocent civilians. If you disagree with my take on the Funj I'd be interested to see any other sort of argument you have.

Just read this, the information here basically illuminates how a lot of what you're thinking here is basically a giant misconception.

 

[KelAhaggar]

Totally misread my whole response or you just didn't read it at all

I never said Sudanese Arabs don't have Arab ancestry, of course they do. In fact, that small concentrated region of Haplogroup J smack in the middle of the country is actually also where I believe exists Arab-associated sub-clades of J1 in their highest frequencies so this is reliable evidence for the prevalence of Arab ancestry. My point is that I want to make a distinction between Arab Ancestry and the Genealogical claims many Sudanese Arab tribes makes. I don't think it's quite plausible to believe that nearly more than half of Sudan's population are descended from one or two men who were close relatives of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Not even the Rashaida who are of purely Arab origin claims such nobility yet the ones who not too long ago were fighting Arab intrusions, we're supposed to believe they descend from who they claim to descend from.

It's very possible for most Sudanese tribes to be descended from Qurayshi tribes because we quite literally have contemporary records from Muslim sources recording the immigration of Qurayshi tribes into the Sudan. Arabs were polygamous, nomadic, warmongering and came in large numbers in several waves of immigration into the country. These are basically the perfect condition for large-scale male population replacement that have been seen multiple times before. Everything tracks with Arabs killing off the men, taking the women as prizes, then moving on and doing the same somewhere else. We know for a fact that the Juhaynah, progenitor of many Sudanese Arab tribes, had made it as far as Bornu by the 14th century and were troublesome enough that the King of Bornu sent entreaties to the Mamluks to make them relent.

 

[KelAhaggar]

I'm not really surprised about the Fur. While it's sad to see how they're suffering in Darfur now, it wasn't that long ago that they were larping as the same Arabs that are now genociding them now. I think I recall the Darfur sultanate also having a lesser-known tradition of tracing lineage to Arab nobility. Furawis only really decided they wanted to be proud Fur, Africans after the collapse of their Sultanate which encompassed all their pride. It'd be crazy to go back during that era of Sudanese history and watch the roles being reversed, the Furawis dominating Darfur and keeping the Arab tribes in check, how quickly things change.

Yeah, other regions of Sudan seem to empathize a lot more with the South than Darfuris in this regard. I honestly think religion might play a role. Darfuris generally speaking are some of the most religious Sudanese people and some of them were among the first to accept Islam so I sense their distaste with wanting to align with the south may be misunderstanding and wrongly taking an opportunity for an alliance against a common enemy as religious apostasy, siding with the "infidels" sorta thing.

If the Fur claiming Arab ancestry meant they were LARPing as Arabs, every single Muslim group in history has been LARPing as Arabs at one point or another.

 

[KelAhaggar]

Just read this, the information here basically illuminates how a lot of what you're thinking here is basically a giant misconception.

Oh, and just to pre-empt the claim that Nubians willingly gave up their daughters en masse to Arabs for peace is the fact that matrilineal inheritance in Nubian society only applied to the kingship, and even then was not always followed with there being multiple examples of direct inheritance from father to son. The average Nubian was not a king and the Juhaynah were replacing more than just Nubians as they went west and engaged with the peoples of the Nuba Mountains.

 

[KelAhaggar]

They're Arab but Arab in the same sense North Africans and Levantine people can be considered Arab. I think the main controversy around the whole Arab discussion is lots of people incorrectly assume being Arab means having a homogenous cluster of Peninsular Arab ancestry constituting both your Paternal and Maternal lineages.

Sudanese Arabs are Arab but more importantly "Arab" in the "Arabized" sense. You'll be surprised to find how recent it was for some tribes to completely assimilate into Arab culture and uphold their Identity. The Ja'alin, the biggest Arab tribe in Sudan, and believed to be one of the oldest, according to accounts from the 19th century, spoke their original indigenous languages and practiced their indigenous cultures (With very coherent Arab influences of course) up until this time period. I even knew some Sudanese Arabs who had great grandparents that couldn't speak Arabic at all, only knowing how to speak an indigenous language. You could make a whole case if you wanted that most of Sudan's significant shifts towards merging into the Arab cultural/ethnic identity have happened in the last couple of centuries and that the earlier instances of Arab penetration into Sudan and the role of Sudanese Sultans were more an initiation for what was to come rather than a constant propagation with instant far-reaching social impacts. Everyone exaggerates what happened in Sudan in the early age of Arabization.

The controversy has nothing to do with genetics and being 'rEaL' Arabs but with Arab governments in North Africa oppressing and shitting on non-Arab groups like the Amazigh, banning their languages and disappearing them. Until recently in places like Morocco, it was literally illegal to give your child an Amazigh and Algeria outlawed the speaking of the language. In the Levant, the Maronites felt threatened by the Muslims who they felt were encroaching on them and threatening their Christian statelet in the Middle East, the horrific Syrian occupation and the creation of the Phalangites and their attempt at asserting a Phoenician identity and the subsequent Sabra and Shatila massacres of Palestinians and other atrocities of the Lebanese civil war. Peninsular Arabs treating non-peninsular Arabs like gutter trash doesn't help.

There's also the historical animosity of settled peoples in the 'Arabized' regions towards the nomadic Arabs, best exemplified by Ibn Khaldun.

The (139) reason for this is that (the Arabs) are a savage nation, fully accustomed to savagery and the things that cause it. Savagery has become their character and nature. They enjoy it, because it means freedom from authority and no subservience to leadership. Such a natural disposition is the negation and antithesis of civilization. All the customary activities of the Arabs lead to travel and movement. This is the antithesis and negation of stationariness, which produces civilization. For instance, the Arabs need stones to set them up as supports for their cooking pots. So, they take them from buildings which they tear down to get the stones, and use them for that purpose. Wood, too, is needed by them for props for their tents and for use as tent poles for their dwellings. So, they tear down roofs toget the wood for that purpose. The very nature of their existence is the negation of building, which is the basis of civilization. This is the case with them quite generally.

Furthermore, it is their nature to plunder whatever other people possess. Their sustenance lies wherever the shadow of their lances falls. They recognize no limit in taking the possessions of other people. Whenever their eyes fall upon some property, furnishings, or utensils, they take it. When they acquire superiority androyal authority, they have complete power to plunder (as they please). There no longer exists any political (power) to protect property, and civilization is ruined.

Furthermore, since they use force to make craftsmen and professional workers do their work, they do not see any value in it and do not pay them for it. Now, as we shall mention, (140) labour is the real basis of profit. When labor is not appreciated and is done for nothing, the hope for profit vanishes, and no (productive) work is done. The sedentary population disperses, and civilization decays.

Furthermore, (the Arabs) are not concerned with laws. (They are not concerned) to deter people from misdeeds or to protect some against the others. They care only for the property that they might take away from people through looting and imposts. When they have obtained that, they have no interest in anything further, such as taking care of (people), looking after their interests, or forcing them not to commit misdeeds. They often level fines on property, because they want to get some advantage, some tax, or profit out of it. This is their custom. It does not help to prevent misdeeds or to deter those who undertake to commit (misdeeds). On the contrary, it increases (misdeeds), because as compared to getting what one wants, the (possible financial) loss (through fines) is insignificant.(141)

Under the rule of (the Arabs), the subjects live as in a state of anarchy, without law. Anarchy destroys mankind and ruins civilization, since, as we have stated, the existence of royal authority is a natural quality of man. It alone guarantees their existence and social organization. That was mentioned above at the beginning of the chapter.(142)

Furthermore, (every Arab) is eager to be the leader. Scarcely a one of them would cede his power to another, even to his his father, his brother, or the eldest (most important) member of his family. That happens only in rare cases and pressure of considerations of decency. There are numerous authorities and amirs among them. The subjects have to obey many masters in connection with the control of taxation and law. Civilization, thus, decays and is wiped out.

'Abd-al-Malik asked one Arab who had come to him on an embassy about al-Hajjaj. He wanted him to praise al Hajjaj for his good political leadership (for the benefit of) civilization. But the Arab said: "When I left him, he was acting unjustly all by himself." (142a)

It is noteworthy how civilization always collapsed in places the Arabs took over and conquered, and how such settlements were depopulated and the (very) earth there turned into something that was no (longer) earth. The Yemen where (the Arabs) live is in ruins, except for a few cities. Persian civilization in the Arab 'Iraq is likewise completely ruined. The same applies to contemporary Syria. When the Banu Hilal and the Banu Sulaym pushed through (from their homeland) to Ifrigiyah and the Maghrib in (the beginning of) the fifth [eleventh] century and struggled there for three hundred and fifty years, they attached themselves to (the country), and the flat territory in (the Maghrib) was completely ruined. Formerly, the whole region between the Sudan and the Mediterranean had been settled. This (fact) is attested by the relics of civilization there, such as monuments, architectural sculpture, and the visible remains of villages and hamlets.

Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey. And tribes well-fortified against them on the slopes of the hills escape their corruption and destruction, because they prefer not to climb hills, nor expend effort, nor take risks. Whereas plains, when they can reach them due to lack of protection and weakness of the state, are spoils for them and morsels for them to eat, which they will keep despoiling and raiding and conquering with ease until their people are defeated, then imitate them with mutual conflict and political decline, until their civilization is destroyed. And Allah is capable of their creation, and He is the One, the Victorious, and there is no other lord than Him.

 

[Shimbiris]

"Sudanese people look like other Africans how can they be Arab?"
While the first half of this statement is undeniably true (with the exclusion of some Sudanese people), being Arab has nothing to do with ones appearance. It is very clear from my Sudanese experience, appearance does however play a role in how easily you are accepted as "Arab" by other Arabs. I myself have found despite me speaking better Arabic (but not reading very well lol) than some Arabs they still have always seen me as some sort of "Fake-Arab" or "Outsider". I've even had Arabs directly tell me that Sudanese people aren't "Real Arabs" whereas others have been more cut-throat and straightforwardly racist. Appearance definitely does play a role in acceptance otherwise countless Sudanese people would not be called numerous racial slurs (specifically targeted towards black people) by Arabs. But appearance is only really limited to how Arabs really perceive you and how easily they welcome you and accept you. In some instances, a Sudanese person could possibly have more Arab blood than a Tunisian but in the eyes of a racist Saudi man, he is most likely going to be much more respectful and welcoming creating a spirit of Arab Brotherhood towards the Tunisian man for the obvious reasons that the Sudanese man is very different in appearance to the former two and is, therefore associated to Black Africans due to his appearance and his Arab card is pretty much revoked by some individuals for this very reason. But who's to say a Sudanese person isn't Arab just because some Saudi dude doesn't like his skin color or hair texture? As various there are interpretations and understandings of what makes someone Arab, none of them seem to initiate an explicit focus on physical appearance or anything merely along the lines of phenotype. And in this regard, Sudanese people looking like Black Africans is totally irrelevant when pondering "Why do Sudanese people claim Arabs?". Personally, I am against Sudan trying to tie itself with Arabs and I am in favour of a culturally and politically autonomous future separate from Arabs only maintaining ties with our Age-old allies, the Egyptians but I'm just being honest here, this isn't good counter to Sudanese people regarding themselves as Arab and I don't even want Sudanese people to be calling themselves that.

I find your experience very interesting, akhi. As a Somali who grew up in the Khaleej who is often taken for Sudani from the get-go my experience with Arabs has generally been one of surprisingly full acceptance. When we were toddlers and elementary school kids there was some silly racism which for a time made me somewhat more partial toward Iranians, Europeans, Indians, Pakistanis, fellow Africans and the like than Arabs but when we hit highschool and college and ever since it's been nothing but folks seemingly just nonchalantly considering me Arab even when I try to explain to them that I'm not one and that Somalis have our own language and were never actually arabized, however I always do suspect that, when I'm not around, there's an element of racism probably going on.

Nevertheless, for whatever reason, Khaleejis at least historically in the UAE tend to like Somalis and Sudanis more than they do Shamis, Masris and other northern Mashreq folks. For one, alongside Yemenis we were always among the few nationalities allowed to be cops hence why several of my relatives have served in the Sharjah and Dubai police forces.

 

[The alchemist]

Right, so you're disregarding the more recent notion of Arab identity and instead trying to enable a focus more on the Ancestral, genealogical, and tribal aspects that would make someone Arab. Noted.

They definitely have Arab ancestry, to varying extents but just because they don't overzealously wave it around in people's faces the same way Sudanese Arabs do, does not mean it's not there. People like the Mozabites have virtually 0 Arab Ancestry but this is also true of many of Sudan's non-arab tribes. On the other hand the Arab-identifying communities of the Maghreb, unsurprisingly don't have such a purely North African composition and I've seen calculations that approximate for around 10%. At the same time, some studies show Berbers and Non-Berbers having little Genetic differentiation between the two and that the distinction of Arab, in this case, is merely a superficial sort but this same pattern exists in Sudan between specific Arab and Non-Arab tribes.

Bataheen generally have high levels of Arab ancestry, that is true but this doesn't discard any Arab Ancestry an Egyptian will have. Unless we were to be speaking solely to the genealogical side of things in which you could say the Bataheen have an undisputable strictly paternal connection to Peninsular Arabs in difference to Egyptians who have a more messy scatter of bits of Arab ancestry, genetically they both are bearers of Arab compositions. So what makes it that the Egyptian is Arab on abstract terms alone?

Even this notion of Arab identity in Sudan that pre-dates the more inclusive modern perceptions, didn't exactly come to form or be based around these specific things alone. Arab Identity in Sudan in a way came about in a form of being able to get in on religious prestige, moving up the ranks in the Sudanese social ladder. It also existed similarly as an outage from what was considered the "cultural infidelity" of being African, and not African in relation to the continent but being African as in deviating from Arabs, speaking a native language, or practicing a native culture, its no wonder the various pre-arab languages of the many Arab tribes in Sudan all miraculously disappeared in the last couple of centuries either going extinct or a non-arab counterpart group keeps the language alive whilst the Arabs abandon their roots. Sudanese people at one point mass-produced genealogical literature tracing their ancestry to all sorts of noble Arab men whom no reputable sources even support existed. It was folklore that otherwise today has no evidence to uphold the crazy and historically illogical and baseless citations that constituted it. Again as mentioned, the Funj Sultanate is very significant in initiating this Religious spin on Arabization and eventually leading to the final steps of its near completion. Jay Spaulding has a lot of literature surrounding this era of Sudanese history, he provides a lot of important details to correct misconceptions about how Arabness came to be in Sudan.
Some work he's did that covers the societal structure of Sudan in this time period and how it overlaps with the slow growing rise of Arab tribal identity and obviously some backstory into the Funj, their systems of government and how they are significant.

The Chronology of Sudanese Arabic Genealogical Tradition on JSTOR

Jay Spaulding, The Chronology of Sudanese Arabic Genealogical Tradition, History in Africa, Vol. 27 (2000), pp. 325-337

www.jstor.org

An Incident of Dynastic Succession in Sixteenth-Century Sinnār on JSTOR

Jay Spaulding, An Incident of Dynastic Succession in Sixteenth-Century Sinnār, Northeast African Studies, New Series, Vol. 4, No. 3 (1997), pp. 23-28

www.jstor.org

Pastoralism, Slavery, Commerce, Culture and the Fate of the Nubians of Northern and Central Kordofan Under Dar Fur Rule, "ca." 1750-"ca." 1850 on JSTOR

Jay Spaulding, Pastoralism, Slavery, Commerce, Culture and the Fate of the Nubians of Northern and Central Kordofan Under Dar Fur Rule, "ca." 1750-"ca." 1850, The International Journal of African Historical Studies, Vol. 39, No. 3 (2006), pp. 393-412

www.jstor.org

The Government of Sinnar on JSTOR

Jay Spaulding, The Government of Sinnar, The International Journal of African Historical Studies, Vol. 6, No. 1 (1973), pp. 19-35

www.jstor.org

What specifically to search for if you don't mind? I also wasn't claiming Ancient Egyptian, Levantine, Arabian, Non-AEA are homogenous components of ancestry. I was using them as examples of ancestries that are often linked or used interchangeably with what is understood in Population Genetics to be West-Eurasian ancestry. They are all distinct, I get that, but they all have a broad region of land in which these ancestries originate

Facts about the matter are not the issue here (only your spread of false notions toward people with ignorance on the topic is highly unappreciated and deceptive, unethical even). Real ones know what is what, and consecutive paragraph gish-galloping is a dead-horse beating time-wasting sink, so I will not engage with your ideology. I hope you find elemental pride in your identity forward. Take notes from Nilotic in that respect.

 

[The alchemist]

Spaulding also literally thought that the Kingdom of Alwa spoke Meroitic and weren't actually Nubian. He's not exactly infallible or without bias on this topic.

From what I have read of him (which is not a lot considering the low stupifying writing), Jay Spaulding's work is faulty interpretive, weighted unprofessional erroneous, and biased drivel.

Look at this buffoon:

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

real life in the US and every time I see videos of Khartoum

As for the US, the US is a huge country, I guess demographics change a lot depending on where you go.

Judging a Sudanese person's tribe by physical appearance could not be more inaccurate considering the hundreds of distinct tribes that exist with their own diversity of appearances. So I unless someone has stated they belong to (insert tribe) then you have no reason to make any assumption.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

imma say something that will trigger the ethnocentrists and the under 18s. if somalis spoke a major language like swahili or arabic we would be in a better position. we wouldnt be in lawlessness for 30 years. we would be just another poor african/arab country.

Elaborate on this, Im a little interested.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

Just read this, the information here basically illuminates how a lot of what you're thinking here is basically a giant misconception.

Interesting, do you know the name of the book or document which this source comes from? It'd help a little more if we can see some more detail on this.

But I don't disagree with this either. I think you're not reading my responses carefully enough to be able to understand what I agree and disagree with. You've come forth with sources and I respect that but your sources aren't going against anything I'm saying. In fact, your sources are very much compatible with what I have stated. The Funj exercised significant power over a large region of Sudan and created the framework for the mass Arabization of Sudan to take place. While the Funj didn't directly do the dirty work of forcing Arab migration into Sudan (like you said they were actually in conflict with the Arabs) they still were major proponents for why it was so easy for Arabs to spread their influence across Sudan and merge with the several indigenous peoples creating an identity that would thrive and live on for centuries to come.

Im reading over my response right now and can't find anything this source is in conflict with. I also clearly mentioned that "The Arabs then had a light bulb moment that Makuria and many other Sudanese kingdoms seemed to be experiencing a period of decline, the Arabs sat back, grew their population, and watched everything burn to wait to spread and dominate." Which is interestingly very similar (almost paraphrasing) for what your source states. "The fall of Nubia opened the gates for Arab nomads to reach the rich pastures beyond the Nubian desert". "The immigrants did not come in the form of invading hordes but in successive small parties of peaceful nomads" "It is almost certain that before the fall of Dunqula, bands of Arab tribesmen had infiltrated into the Middle Nile region" Your source even has a whole 5-8 pages talking about how all of the Genealogical and ancestral claims Sudanese people make are allegedly BS.

I admit I skimmed through the source because it isn't worth my time to read every single page just to point out sections we can focus on because I think we are clear in where we stand here but if there is something in specific you want me to acknowledge please do point it out.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

Arabs were polygamous, nomadic, warmongering and came in large numbers in several waves of immigration into the country.

Not what your source states.

It's very possible for most Sudanese tribes to be descended from Qurayshi tribes

I don't rule out the possibility at all especially considering the absolute size and power exercised by the Quraysh across most of Arabia, I just don't think it is at all plausible to believe that Sudanese Arabs all descend from a relative of our beloved Prophet (Pbuh) simply because they may have ancestry of Qurayshi origin. Especially when we have well-written sources showing this to be some sort of societal trend of those in higher classes to trace lineage to the most Noble of Arabs, the family of the Prophet (Pbuh) or the Prophet himself.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

If the Fur claiming Arab ancestry meant they were LARPing as Arabs, every single Muslim group in history has been LARPing as Arabs at one point or another.

Absolutely

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

Oh, and just to pre-empt the claim that Nubians willingly gave up their daughters en masse to Arabs for peace is the fact that matrilineal inheritance in Nubian society only applied to the kingship, and even then was not always followed with there being multiple examples of direct inheritance from father to son. The average Nubian was not a king and the Juhaynah were replacing more than just Nubians as they went west and engaged with the peoples of the Nuba Mountains.

Interesting, I've always been familiar with people perpetuating that all Nubians as a whole had an entirely matrilineal system unrelated to class. Do you have any sources for this?

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

The controversy has nothing to do with genetics and being 'rEaL' Arabs but with Arab governments in North Africa oppressing and shitting on non-Arab groups like the Amazigh, banning their languages and disappearing them. Until recently in places like Morocco, it was literally illegal to give your child an Amazigh and Algeria outlawed the speaking of the language. In the Levant, the Maronites felt threatened by the Muslims who they felt were encroaching on them and threatening their Christian statelet in the Middle East, the horrific Syrian occupation and the creation of the Phalangites and their attempt at asserting a Phoenician identity and the subsequent Sabra and Shatila massacres of Palestinians and other atrocities of the Lebanese civil war. Peninsular Arabs treating non-peninsular Arabs like gutter trash doesn't help.

There's also the historical animosity of settled peoples in the 'Arabized' regions towards the nomadic Arabs, best exemplified by Ibn Khaldun.

Mashallah, I must say you are very well educated. A lot of this is new stuff to me. I appreciate the additional info.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

I find your experience very interesting, akhi. As a Somali who grew up in the Khaleej who is often taken for Sudani from the get-go my experience with Arabs has generally been one of surprisingly full acceptance. When we were toddlers and elementary school kids there was some silly racism which for a time made me somewhat more partial toward Iranians, Europeans, Indians, Pakistanis, fellow Africans and the like than Arabs but when we hit highschool and college and ever since it's been nothing but folks seemingly just nonchalantly considering me Arab even when I try to explain to them that I'm not one and that Somalis have our own language and were never actually arabized, however I always do suspect that, when I'm not around, there's an element of racism probably going on.

Nevertheless, for whatever reason, Khaleejis at least historically in the UAE tend to like Somalis and Sudanis more than they do Shamis, Masris and other northern Mashreq folks. For one, alongside Yemenis we were always among the few nationalities allowed to be cops hence why several of my relatives have served in the Sharjah and Dubai police forces.

My experience is representative of a lot of Sudanese people but even the bad experiences are very rare in relation to the good ones. I've had wonderful experiences with Khaleejis, in the UAE when I and my family would walk into a shop, the owners of the store would try to speak to us in our dialect and would put on Sudanese music and tell us how much they respect Sudan. I love those guys. But sadly with good, there's always bad and some Khaleejis haven't been afraid to say some of the vilest things straight to our faces.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

Facts about the matter are not the issue here (only your spread of false notions toward people with ignorance on the topic is highly unappreciated and deceptive, unethical even). Real ones know what is what, and consecutive paragraph gish-galloping is a dead-horse beating time-wasting sink, so I will not engage with your ideology. I hope you find elemental pride in your identity forward. Take notes from Nilotic in that respect.

Not to sound like a twat but I'd be very appreciative if you could point out these "false notions" this is a discussion after all.

I'm at peace with who I am, thank you for your concern.